Fish Went into shock When I added Methyline Blue

[goldenpuon]

I have a betta who has been swimming a bit tilted to the side and it was getting worse so eventually, I took her out of my main female betta container (4 gallons). To try to help her, I decided to try some Methyline Blue in the quart container I put her in and do a 5 minute bath last night. The confusing thing was it said dip fish Methyline Blue for no more than 10 seconds. I thought maybe they were refering to Methyline Blue with no water, not a few drops like I was adding to her container.

I opened the MB and saw there was no easy squeeze thing for drops. The piece that had sealed the bottle (the silver bendable piece found on brand new fish medications) had some MB on it but some of it looked dried so I figured that since I didn't have a spoon right away, I could dip in into the water really quick and start the bath. (Plus my mom was really mad and saying things to try to upset me last night because I wanted quiet after a stressful day at school, it's complicated) I didn't want to go into the kitchen for a spoon and risk getting yelled at more.

I dipped the thing that sealed the MB in and the fish instantly started jumping, running into things (going into shock). I ran to the sink and got her out with a cup and changed out the water. I changed the water 4 times until the MB was in small enough amount that she was out of shock since the net was in the next room and I was transporting her using paper cups in my bathroom. She looked better after I changed the water but since she hasn't been doing well. She's swimming more sideways than ever, is very pale, and inactive. I am very worried. Could this amount of MB cause that reaction or could she somehow be allegeric to it?

I remember using Methyline Green which is as different med but still uses the name "Methyline"on goldfish 3 years ago to kill off ich. It worked pretty well on the ich but the fish always died from what looked like overdose before I could finish the 3 day treatment. Then I got a second case of ich and tried it again, only at 2 drops per 5 gallons even though the box said a drop per gallon. Then I managed to get 3 days of treatment but after that, they acted like they had been overmedicated and died.The product I used was Nox Ich. Keep in mind, this was when I was a newbie at keeping fish and I had sick fish a lot more. These fish that had ich were feeders that came down with ich a week or so after I got them.

Is the MB the cause of this? She started going into shock the second I put teh MB in. I am very concerned about her. She deosn't look like she is going to make it....

[bikeguy33]

the only way the fish would shock from this treatment is to get too much....a few drops goes a long way

[goldenpuon]

I feel so bad for her!!! She reacted before the drips even mixed in with the water.... I wish I could have done better, now I will lose her.....

[Carl]

Sept 10, 2008 19:01:52 GMT -5 bikeguy33 said:

the only way the fish would shock from this treatment is to get too much....a few drops goes a long way

I agree here. Methylene Blue is quite safe, vastly more so than Malachite Green, which have little in common other than being chemical dyes.

My guess is two fold, you added way too much, or the fish simply got very startled for some reason or another, as actually MB has a commoning aspect to it in part as it darkens the water which makes fish relax.

I would suggest using an eye dropper to get the MB out, as bikeguy said, a litttle goes a long way. I often will perform baths with only a few drops in a pint of water (16 oz.), as all that is required is a teaspoon per 5 gallons, in small volumes of water very little is needed.
That said I have more than tripled MB for extended baths with no ill effects and applied MB directly to wounds as well where it stains the fish.

She reacted before the drips even mixed in with the water

Based on your last comment I would feel quite confident in stating the fish was already in stress.

Hopefully she will be better, but please know that you were not doing anything wrong, only trying to help her.

Carl

[goldenpuon]

Thank you Carl and Bikeguy. I had just moved her into the quart conatiner the same night as I tried the MB. I should have waited... I forgot to meation in my first post that one of her gill covers is looks like it is bend like it is stilling out a little.

A saw this same thing happen in a mutant betta from the same spawn this one came from. She started swimming strangely, off to the side a bit. I isolated her like I did this one and then I noticed her gill cover sticking out. I remember that it healed in time and the betta regained balance. However, she had a kink in her spine, was missing a pelvic fin, and had almost no dorsel fin, and had a shortened snout. I culled her a few months ago because she was so mutated.

I just hope this one recovers. She is currently a little tilted, on the top. She is pale and displaying vertical bars. She does, however, start swimming a bit when I feed the other male bettas in 1 gallons next to her or turn the light on. Thank you so much guys for your input. I will always use an eyedropper or plastic spoon to measure this out in the future.

But I'm wondering about the Methyline Green. Is it harsher than Methylien Blue? The reason is I remember using 2 drops per 5 gallons with a product called Nox Ich that had Methyline Green in it when the bottle said 1 drop per gallon. And the goldfish all died and acted like they had been way overmedicated....

[bikeguy33]

renee....I would stick with the methylin blue over the malachite green. it is less stressful on the fish and it is helps more ailments and is less invasive....plus the water is such a pretty blue color....lol.

[goldenpuon]

Ok. But adctuall y the med Nox Ich with Methyline green has awonderful blueish color too, that and it loves to stain everything. lol That's where lots of soap and water comes in handy!

[sammiesam]

like the guys said you probably just scared her form being moved around and stuff and something silver coming into her little container, specially if she was sick and stuff before.
Hope she's okay let us know how she's doing

[Carl]

Sept 13, 2008 7:21:58 GMT -5 goldenpuon said:

Ok. But adctuall y the med Nox Ich with Methyline green has awonderful blueish color too, that and it loves to stain everything. lol That's where lots of soap and water comes in handy!

Nox Ich is an older stronger version of Malachite Green and is darker, but when you take a white cloth and stain one with MB and the other with MG, the difference is clear as to color.

HOWEVER, I am sensing confussion here as to Malachite Green and Methylene Blue, they are VERY different chemical dyes in what they due, their toxicity (MG is harder on many fish, while MB is not hard on fish at all, but is bacteriostatic and can quickly kill nitirying bacteria if used much in an established aquarium)

I STRONGLY recommend reading my Aquarium Medications article, page 3 dealing with chemical treatments about MB and MG so as to understand these VERY important differences;
Aquarium Chemical Treatments/Medications

I will try and maybe update this more to hopefully clear up more as to misunderstandings of these two different treatments.

I have found that these are both often among the most misunderstood aquarium chemicals, especially from what I have read in YA (but even Wikipedia), the carcinogenic properties of MG have basically been debunked, yet persist in many areas of the internet.

Carl

[goldenpuon]

Thanks. i just read about MB and MG. I have to get ready for my party now. Thanks so much. By the way, the fish that went into shock is doing better. She was swimming around a bit this monring. Keep your fingers crossed.

[cashay]

Good luck with her!

[goldenpuon]

Thanks Cashay. But for an update, the betta is not doing any better. She sits at the top, at an angle. She is still pale and I don't know what to do. I don't want to change her water and stress her more since, when the poisoning happened, I changed her water 4 times in 5 minutes to get the MB concentration down since I didn't have net in the room and had to transport her via a bathroom cup since she went into shock so fast. I'm not sure what I should do with her. Whether I should let her suffer and give her an opportunity to heal or end her life with alka selzer. I really don't want to use alka selzer on her though I hate seeing her suffer.

[Carl]

Sept 16, 2008 14:46:18 GMT -5 goldenpuon said:

Thanks Cashay. But for an update, the betta is not doing any better. She sits at the top, at an angle. She is still pale and I don't know what to do. I don't want to change her water and stress her more since, when the poisoning happened, I changed her water 4 times in 5 minutes to get the MB concentration down since I didn't have net in the room and had to transport her via a bathroom cup since she went into shock so fast. I'm not sure what I should do with her. Whether I should let her suffer and give her an opportunity to heal or end her life with alka selzer. I really don't want to use alka selzer on her though I hate seeing her suffer.

I am sorry she is still no better.

Are you still changing water out on her?
If so try not to disturb her any more than need be, the baths are about as much stress as I would recommend.

Also MB should not have caused any residual poisoning, unless she was left long term in a concentrated MB container.
I have actually poured straight Methylene Blue on a fish without any long term problems, I guess my point is that you are more dealing with a weak fish, not a poisoned fish.

Carl

[bikeguy33]

I agree with Carl....meth blue is one of the least invasive treatments i have ever used. Unless a bottle was poured on her, i can`t possibly see this as being the reason for her health....

[goldenpuon]

She seems slightly better today. I am leaving her alone and am not changing her water for a few more days so she won't be disturbed too much.

[goldenpuon]

I have very good news! The fish that went into shock is doing much better!! She has much more color to her now and eat ate last night! But I know she isn't better yet. She starts darting or losing color very fast and easily so there immune system is in bad shape. She also has a black area on one side of her face that wasn't there before. I'm not sure what it i, but i assume it had something to do with the MB and her going into shock.

[bikeguy33]

the shock had NOTHING to do with the MB

[goldenpuon]

Thanks for the reponse Bikeguy. I don't know what it is then. I will have to keep a very very close eye on her for the next few weeks. I'll have tto make sure she's 110% recovered before I put her in with the other females again.