Post by scout on Nov 22, 2020 11:43:02 GMT -5
Hi,
I will eventually introduce myself and plan to be active on this forum, but my first post is going to have to be a question because I'm dealing with a crisis and am losing my bettas one by one. I'm also having trouble because I cannot learn fast enough to prevent these immediate deaths, and desperately need some precise, straightforward suggestions that I can immediately act on.
Here is the background:
I inherited fish in August, and knew nothing about keeping fish. I didn't even know what kind of fish I had. So I made all the expected mistakes someone makes when they are unable or unaware of the research to be done first. I inherited the tank with no warning and no instructions, and believed the people at Petco who said my tank would cycle instantly if I added a bottle of Tetra Safe Start Plus. I've really gone down the rabbit hole here and am obsessed with fish now, especially with Bettas. They steal my heart with their personalities and responsiveness. I'm completely a betta person now.
I started a sorority tank, and everyone was getting along. There were 10 females in a 40 gallon breeder tank that was heavily stocked with wood decor, caves of all kinds, and dense plastic plants. I'm an obsessive cleaner, do weekly gravel or sand vacs and 30% water changes. I have a fluval 407 canister, a Seachem Tidal 55 HOB, and air driven sponge filters all in this one tank. My tests showed 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 0 nitrates, and 6-7 Ph. Temperature is 80F to 81F. All of the girls would show up to be fed, and then suddenly, one dropped back. I chalked it up to shyness. Then another dropped back. Then another. I was getting worried, and it's hard to actually locate the fish inside my tank because I wanted to give them lots of distractions and things to do besides look at each other. I found one limply laying on the substrate. I have 2 hospital tanks, so she went in one. I was frantic and it's hard to read things closely when under this kind of stress and my mind is racing. Most sites are meandering, repetitive, and do not get right to the point. I had no idea how to identify or diagnose diseases or illnesses in fish (still don't, but I certainly know more about identification now) and I threw General Cure at everything. I lost this fish after she hung on for 2-3 days. Then another went into the hospital tank, only to suffer similarly and die.
There is absolutely nothing out of the ordinary when I look at the fish. Nothing coming out of any orifice, no growths, no funguses, nothing. It's just bizarre. The only thing I do notice is that their gills look inflamed once they are dead, but not prior to that. This is not ammonia poisoning, however.
They died in exactly the same manner, one by one, until there were none left. I was devastated. I scrapped everything and got an entirely new setup with a new filter and everything.
I started again, and it's happening again. This time, I actually think I know what I'm dealing with, but I don't know for sure. I think I have strain 1 columnaris. I think it's because betta sororities are inherently stressful for betta splendens (not the social or wild types), even when you think everything is going right and conditions are ideal.
I threw the first fish into the hospital tank and she died almost immediately. I don't have 10 hospital tanks, so I started medicating my entire 40 gallon tank with all the fish in there. Only 1 remains in a hospital tank. I've lost 5 fish, and 4 look as though they will survive and are going through their final round of Kanaplex and Furan 2 (because AAP Spectrogram is not available). I ordered AAP Bettamax, AAP methyblu, AAP Wound Control, AAP Furacin, AAP Res Q, AAP Shieldex, wonder shells and medicated wonder shells, and Oxygenex and Pipezine. Wow, this place really came through for me- the stuff shipped immediately and got here quickly. This place also sells pharmaceutical grade medications for fish.
The fish that I need help with is a little betta who is somehow clinging to life after being constantly medicated for over 14 days now.
Her medicine history:
Maracyn (before I decided this was columnaris)
Furan 2 and kanaplex
Salt (2 tsp per gallon)
Temperature is 75.5F
Maracyn predictably did nothing, but she didn't worsen.
Furan 2 and kanaplex almost seemed to stress her more, but she came through.
I was starting a second round of this stuff when I just felt like I might be killing her. So I started reading more stuff and came across American Aquarium Product's website and am trying to give their products a try.
Yesterday, I filled a 2 gallon bath tank and used 4 drops of Methyblu. (I was unable to use any hospital tank water because she only has 2.5 gallons of water inside a 5 gallon tank so that she doesn't struggle to reach the surface to breathe. She is either at the bottom or resting near the surface in one of the plants. I used a thermometer to fill her medicated bath with water of the exact same temperature as her hospital tank, treated it with Seachem prime, and added the 4 drops of Methyblu.) When I removed her with a net, I dripped a couple drops of the wound control liquid onto her and put her back into her hospital tank. I didn't acclimate her to either the bath or hospital tanks. I'm trying to reduce the salt content of her hospital tank through water changes that aren't so drastic she gets additionally stressed. I believe right now, the salt level is at about 1 tsp per gallon. I added ResQ to her hospital tank when I replaced her into the water. I added half a capsule of Bettamax to her hospital tank. She just doesn't look good. I'm so scared that I'm killing this little fighter.
I'm also honestly having a hard time sorting through the information on the AAP website. I absolutely trust the information. However, I'm so overwhelmed and extremely stressed, nothing seems clear to me when I'm reading, and I'm just so panicked that I can't organize my thoughts the way I normally do.
Please help. I promise your time and care will not be wasted. I've grown from one tank I felt somewhat indifferently about to 7 tanks and an obsession. I love my fish and know each one of them. The fish in the hospital tank is Lacey. I will be extremely grateful for some guidance. I apologize in advance that I don't know acronyms, so if you need to use them, please spell them out the first time with the acronym so that I know what you're talking about. I'm still new.
What's my next step for Lacey? She had her medicated bath yesterday (just methyblu). Do I give her another today? And since the strain of columnaris I believe she has is entirely internal, how can Bettamax (which I added to her hospital tank- what she is in when she is not in her bath tank) without the kanaplex, since nitrofurazone is not absorbed internally? What should her medicated baths be comprised of and what should the entire process look like? What should be in her hospital tank (what meds or any other thing I can put in there for her)? She currently has a bit of aquarium salt, a bit of epsom salt, a half capsule of bettamax (for 2.5 gallons of water), ResQ was added yesterday and stress guard was added today, and she has 1/4 regular wondershell in there now. I don't fully understand Redox, GH, or KH- when I think I understand I quickly realize I don't.
I just need a plan please. She doesn't deserve to die while I get this figured out.
I found this message board while reading this: www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2016/09/how-to-treat-sick-fish.html
If you've not seen this website, check it out. It's one of only 3 sources that are sharing information about columnaris that makes sense given what it actually is, and part of the reason I am trying to make changes in how I'm medicating my fish. I would have ordered Spectrogram but it is sold out. I'm also keeping in mind that if a treatment hasn't worked twice (which is the case for me here with the 2 courses of Furan 2 and kanaplex. I do have the Furacyn, but I'm trying the bettamax (gave her first dose in the tank yesterday). I administered the bath without medication because I didn't want to essentially dose her the third time with nitrofurazone and Kapaplex, which is why no medication went into the bath with her.
The source that helped me identify what I am dealing with (strain 1 columnaris) is at this link: livefins.com/columnaris-treatment-information-2/
So from there, I went to AAP, and from there, I came here.
With gratitude,
Scout
I will eventually introduce myself and plan to be active on this forum, but my first post is going to have to be a question because I'm dealing with a crisis and am losing my bettas one by one. I'm also having trouble because I cannot learn fast enough to prevent these immediate deaths, and desperately need some precise, straightforward suggestions that I can immediately act on.
Here is the background:
I inherited fish in August, and knew nothing about keeping fish. I didn't even know what kind of fish I had. So I made all the expected mistakes someone makes when they are unable or unaware of the research to be done first. I inherited the tank with no warning and no instructions, and believed the people at Petco who said my tank would cycle instantly if I added a bottle of Tetra Safe Start Plus. I've really gone down the rabbit hole here and am obsessed with fish now, especially with Bettas. They steal my heart with their personalities and responsiveness. I'm completely a betta person now.
I started a sorority tank, and everyone was getting along. There were 10 females in a 40 gallon breeder tank that was heavily stocked with wood decor, caves of all kinds, and dense plastic plants. I'm an obsessive cleaner, do weekly gravel or sand vacs and 30% water changes. I have a fluval 407 canister, a Seachem Tidal 55 HOB, and air driven sponge filters all in this one tank. My tests showed 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 0 nitrates, and 6-7 Ph. Temperature is 80F to 81F. All of the girls would show up to be fed, and then suddenly, one dropped back. I chalked it up to shyness. Then another dropped back. Then another. I was getting worried, and it's hard to actually locate the fish inside my tank because I wanted to give them lots of distractions and things to do besides look at each other. I found one limply laying on the substrate. I have 2 hospital tanks, so she went in one. I was frantic and it's hard to read things closely when under this kind of stress and my mind is racing. Most sites are meandering, repetitive, and do not get right to the point. I had no idea how to identify or diagnose diseases or illnesses in fish (still don't, but I certainly know more about identification now) and I threw General Cure at everything. I lost this fish after she hung on for 2-3 days. Then another went into the hospital tank, only to suffer similarly and die.
There is absolutely nothing out of the ordinary when I look at the fish. Nothing coming out of any orifice, no growths, no funguses, nothing. It's just bizarre. The only thing I do notice is that their gills look inflamed once they are dead, but not prior to that. This is not ammonia poisoning, however.
They died in exactly the same manner, one by one, until there were none left. I was devastated. I scrapped everything and got an entirely new setup with a new filter and everything.
I started again, and it's happening again. This time, I actually think I know what I'm dealing with, but I don't know for sure. I think I have strain 1 columnaris. I think it's because betta sororities are inherently stressful for betta splendens (not the social or wild types), even when you think everything is going right and conditions are ideal.
I threw the first fish into the hospital tank and she died almost immediately. I don't have 10 hospital tanks, so I started medicating my entire 40 gallon tank with all the fish in there. Only 1 remains in a hospital tank. I've lost 5 fish, and 4 look as though they will survive and are going through their final round of Kanaplex and Furan 2 (because AAP Spectrogram is not available). I ordered AAP Bettamax, AAP methyblu, AAP Wound Control, AAP Furacin, AAP Res Q, AAP Shieldex, wonder shells and medicated wonder shells, and Oxygenex and Pipezine. Wow, this place really came through for me- the stuff shipped immediately and got here quickly. This place also sells pharmaceutical grade medications for fish.
The fish that I need help with is a little betta who is somehow clinging to life after being constantly medicated for over 14 days now.
Her medicine history:
Maracyn (before I decided this was columnaris)
Furan 2 and kanaplex
Salt (2 tsp per gallon)
Temperature is 75.5F
Maracyn predictably did nothing, but she didn't worsen.
Furan 2 and kanaplex almost seemed to stress her more, but she came through.
I was starting a second round of this stuff when I just felt like I might be killing her. So I started reading more stuff and came across American Aquarium Product's website and am trying to give their products a try.
Yesterday, I filled a 2 gallon bath tank and used 4 drops of Methyblu. (I was unable to use any hospital tank water because she only has 2.5 gallons of water inside a 5 gallon tank so that she doesn't struggle to reach the surface to breathe. She is either at the bottom or resting near the surface in one of the plants. I used a thermometer to fill her medicated bath with water of the exact same temperature as her hospital tank, treated it with Seachem prime, and added the 4 drops of Methyblu.) When I removed her with a net, I dripped a couple drops of the wound control liquid onto her and put her back into her hospital tank. I didn't acclimate her to either the bath or hospital tanks. I'm trying to reduce the salt content of her hospital tank through water changes that aren't so drastic she gets additionally stressed. I believe right now, the salt level is at about 1 tsp per gallon. I added ResQ to her hospital tank when I replaced her into the water. I added half a capsule of Bettamax to her hospital tank. She just doesn't look good. I'm so scared that I'm killing this little fighter.
I'm also honestly having a hard time sorting through the information on the AAP website. I absolutely trust the information. However, I'm so overwhelmed and extremely stressed, nothing seems clear to me when I'm reading, and I'm just so panicked that I can't organize my thoughts the way I normally do.
Please help. I promise your time and care will not be wasted. I've grown from one tank I felt somewhat indifferently about to 7 tanks and an obsession. I love my fish and know each one of them. The fish in the hospital tank is Lacey. I will be extremely grateful for some guidance. I apologize in advance that I don't know acronyms, so if you need to use them, please spell them out the first time with the acronym so that I know what you're talking about. I'm still new.
What's my next step for Lacey? She had her medicated bath yesterday (just methyblu). Do I give her another today? And since the strain of columnaris I believe she has is entirely internal, how can Bettamax (which I added to her hospital tank- what she is in when she is not in her bath tank) without the kanaplex, since nitrofurazone is not absorbed internally? What should her medicated baths be comprised of and what should the entire process look like? What should be in her hospital tank (what meds or any other thing I can put in there for her)? She currently has a bit of aquarium salt, a bit of epsom salt, a half capsule of bettamax (for 2.5 gallons of water), ResQ was added yesterday and stress guard was added today, and she has 1/4 regular wondershell in there now. I don't fully understand Redox, GH, or KH- when I think I understand I quickly realize I don't.
I just need a plan please. She doesn't deserve to die while I get this figured out.
I found this message board while reading this: www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2016/09/how-to-treat-sick-fish.html
If you've not seen this website, check it out. It's one of only 3 sources that are sharing information about columnaris that makes sense given what it actually is, and part of the reason I am trying to make changes in how I'm medicating my fish. I would have ordered Spectrogram but it is sold out. I'm also keeping in mind that if a treatment hasn't worked twice (which is the case for me here with the 2 courses of Furan 2 and kanaplex. I do have the Furacyn, but I'm trying the bettamax (gave her first dose in the tank yesterday). I administered the bath without medication because I didn't want to essentially dose her the third time with nitrofurazone and Kapaplex, which is why no medication went into the bath with her.
The source that helped me identify what I am dealing with (strain 1 columnaris) is at this link: livefins.com/columnaris-treatment-information-2/
So from there, I went to AAP, and from there, I came here.
With gratitude,
Scout
