ladigesia roloffi, internal discoloration issues

[matt]

I have a school of jelly bean tetras that seem to have some issue or disease, where they're turning opaque on the inside.
I've been keeping aquaria for more than 15 years, but I don't have much experience with fish disease beyond some ich and parasites.
So I'm not really sure what I'm looking at here, or how I should treat it.

Some background info:
I bought the group almost 9 months ago, they all seemed healty in the shop, but when I came home I noticed 2 fish had some discoloration.
See the picture below, I euthanized those 2 fish and kept a close eye on the rest of the group, not seeing any other issues.


imgur.com/g6TW61d


2 months later I introduced 2 Tetraodon Schoutedeni, they spent over 6 weeks in quarantine and a month ago I introduced 5 epiplatys dageti and 10 microsynodontis sp. 1, those also spent about a month in quarantine
Those haven't been affected, as far as I can tell.

The tank is 71cm*51cm*65cm, holding about 175L, that's 28"*20"*25" and 46gal in US Measurements I believe.


The parameters are as follows:
Temp: 26.6°c (79.8°F), Nh4: 0ppm, No2: 0ppm, No3: 7.5ppm, po4: 0.5ppm Conductivity: 412µs/cm (tds: 264ppm), Ph: 6.73, kh: 3°dH, gh: 5°dH, I'm doing weekly 30% watechanges.
I'm using 2 cannister filters one rated at around 369gal/h (1400L/h) and one rated at around 116gal/h (440l/h) on the last one I have an Eheim reeflex UV 500 (with a 9w UV bulb)

So yesterday I noticed that 3 other tetra's that I believe are sick. All 3 have the discoloration, starting at the tail base. One also seems to have a thickened and inflamed tail base, the other one has some frayed fins and discoloration at the tail. The 3rd one has the most discoloration. I've added more pics below.

imgur.com/a0crVJq The one with what looks to me as a sore on the tail base.

imgur.com/nGER02j The one with the frayed fins, discoloration starting at the tail base

i.imgur.com/mOet1tg.jpg The one with more advanced discoloration.

I've isolated all the tetra's in a quarantine tank for now, hopefully someone can help identify what's going on.
As I'm from the EU, I might not have access to the medications mentioned on the site. But an ID on what I should be treating for would be a great help.

[devonjohnsgard]

Everything looks great. What is the pH from the tap?

Do you use any cal, mag, pot salts. I would recommend it to get immunity.

www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2016/09/how-to-treat-sick-fish.html

What are you feeding?

[matt]

Aug 22, 2020 13:31:31 GMT -5 devonjohnsgard said:

Everything looks great. What is the pH from the tap?

Do you use any cal, mag, pot salts. I would recommend it to get immunity.

www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2016/09/how-to-treat-sick-fish.html

What are you feeding?

Thanks for your answer!


I'm using Ro/DI water, remineralised with Saltyshrimp Mineral GH/KH+. My tap water is too hard for these fish.
To keep up with the plants I'm dosing KNO3, K2SO4, KH2PO4, MgSO4 and a trace mix (Easy life profit) daily.
In total I'm adding about 1.6ppm nitrates, 1ppm potassium, 0.1ppm phosphate and 0.16 magnesium a day.

I'm feeding Dr. Bassleer Biofish Food regular, garlic and excel flakes, they also get frozen Cyclops and Daphnia.
They also eat some of the frozen bloodworms that I feed the puffers twice a week. I use Vita Chem on all the defrosted foods.

Hope that answers your questions?

[devonjohnsgard]

Aug 22, 2020 14:00:34 GMT -5 matt said:

Aug 22, 2020 13:31:31 GMT -5 devonjohnsgard said:

Everything looks great. What is the pH from the tap?

Do you use any cal, mag, pot salts. I would recommend it to get immunity.

www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2016/09/how-to-treat-sick-fish.html

What are you feeding?

Thanks for your answer!


I'm using Ro/DI water, remineralised with Saltyshrimp Mineral GH/KH+. My tap water is too hard for these fish.
To keep up with the plants I'm dosing KNO3, K2SO4, KH2PO4, MgSO4 and a trace mix (Easy life profit) daily.
In total I'm adding about 1.6ppm nitrates, 1ppm potassium, 0.1ppm phosphate and 0.16 magnesium a day.

I'm feeding Dr. Bassleer Biofish Food regular, garlic and excel flakes, they also get frozen Cyclops and Daphnia.
They also eat some of the frozen bloodworms that I feed the puffers twice a week. I use Vita Chem on all the defrosted foods.

Hope that answers your questions?

Are you using 100% RO? That might be hard to balance long-term. This article can help.
www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2016/01/use-of-ro-di-softwater-in-aquariums.html

What is the hardness from the tap?

[matt]

I am at the moment, yes. Isn't really a problem, have been using Ro/Di for years now. Waste water is used in the garden, cut with rainwater, so it's not a total loss.

Both the GH and KH are around 10 straight out of the tap, I could do 50%/50% but ot also contains a whole lot of silicates wich made some brown algea issues worse.

[matt]

But does anyone have an idea of what's going on with my tetra's?

3 of them where to weak and didn't survive the move to the quarantine tank, they all had some discoloration to a different extent. I have 25 jelly's left now.

I'm seeing 2 more with the discoloration, now that I can watch them more closely in the quarantine tank. The one with the tail sore from the earlier pictures is still alive an then one wich is almost completely opaque now.

[devonjohnsgard]

Aug 25, 2020 12:52:50 GMT -5 matt said:

But does anyone have an idea of what's going on with my tetra's?

3 of them where to weak and didn't survive the move to the quarantine tank, they all had some discoloration to a different extent. I have 25 jelly's left now.

I'm seeing 2 more with the discoloration, now that I can watch them more closely in the quarantine tank. The one with the tail sore from the earlier pictures is still alive an then one wich is almost completely opaque now.

I would think about using 50/50. It's hard to see in the picture. I'll link you to an article and you can sew if it matches.

www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html

[Carl]

This appears to be Neon Tetra Disease:
www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/02/neon-tetra-disease.html

This can be very difficult to treat, especially since it appears you are "doing everything right" in my opinion

Naladixic Acid along with AAP Medicated Wonder Shells MAY help as well as culling infected specimens

Resources:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquatronics.html
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/MedicatedWonderShell.html

Also make sure to change out your UV lamp every 6 months and only use a High Output low pressure UVC lamp
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumUVSterilization.html

Regards;
Carl

[matt]

Thanks for the answers, Neon Tetra Disease seems to fit the best I'm afraid.
Although the symptoms seem to develop in a slightly different order.

I do recognize the restlessness in the entire school when the lights are turned on and off. In the display tank the led ramps up an down very slowly so I didn't notice it there.
I also got 2 that seem to be developing a crooked spine, but no white tissue on them.

Would it still be treatable at this stage or should I put the entire school down?
The meds mentioned in the links aren't available here in Belgium, as far as I can find. So I presume it would take a while to get them down here.

I've put those in the pictures down, but they might help confirm the NTD? 






The puffers are quite rare and I would really hate seeing them getting infected. Reading the article it seems like there is no way of knowing treatment was successful.

It took more than half a year between the first infection and this one. I euthanized those first ones immediately.

[devonjohnsgard]

Sorry for the trouble. Carl may have a better opinion, but last time I had this issue, I just let it run it course. I guess with these smaller fish, I expect them to have shorter life spans anyways.

[Carl]

Sept 17, 2020 11:23:57 GMT -5 devonjohnsgard said:

Sorry for the trouble. Carl may have a better opinion, but last time I had this issue, I just let it run it course. I guess with these smaller fish, I expect them to have shorter life spans anyways.

I would cull any suspect tetras and treat the tank with AAP Naladin.
Then simply maintain best possible water parameters and water change procedures.
Reference:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Disease.html

I also would strongly suggest a Category A or at least B UV Sterilizer.
Reference:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumUVSterilization.html