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Post by bluetastic on Mar 27, 2019 17:04:24 GMT -5
HI Today, my betta his name is jazz or yaz i donkt know... is covered of a golden color in his tie and fins when I put light on him. About two weeks ago he had this golden things but less than now with white spots, the white spots seemed like marbles and also he has one thing on his mouth that I dont know what it is. this day he doesn't have the white spots, I dont know if it was ich. we cleared the white spots using dim lights, about 90 F of temperature with metronidazole but he has the golden things that seems like velvet and he has that white thing on his mouth that is more bigger than about two weeks ago. look at the first photo of the mouth and also look at photos of tank The metronidazole seems useless for this freshwater velvet and the white thing of the side of his mouth but i dont know exactly if this worked for this. The photos are of 27 march 2019 Now He is at the bottom for longer periods about 95% of the time, sometimes he changes of position at the bottom. he come to me only for food and then he goes to the bottom again. He was swimming better the previous week than now. I give him pellets he has tubifex worm but i dont know if i should continue give him azoo tubifex worm I am using baths twice daily. 30 minutes each bath. I am using the recommended dose of the bottle of malachite green 1 drop for 4 liters but sometimes I put two in about three liters tank, with double the recommended dose of the bottle of methylene blue with 3 teaspoons of salt with a heater and the same temperature of the tanks and dim lights. I started doing this yesterday. this day he will have his 4th baths. He sometimes spend about 35 minutes on each bath. I dont know what a hospital tank means exactly. But he has two tanks one for his baths and his main thank. I dont know when to clean his main tank. His main tank is 20 liters but only about 10 liters of tap water with his two heaters, each heater for 10 liters and I am using malachite green in his main tank with about 87 F degrees. His water is conditioned. I dont have a freshwater kit. He star to swim a lot of time but without eating his food when he is at the bath. and when i put him on his new thank he stays at the bottom again. I was watching this stuff about velvet www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/01/freshwater-velvet-piscinoodinium.html and www.waterlife.co.uk/disease-diagnosis-faqs/15-disease-diagnosis-faqs/35-treatment-8-oodiniasis-velvet-diseaseWhat is the white spot? Columnaris? Costia? ich? velvet? What do you think about this bath? What about having a clean main tank? I Could use bettafix for infections caused by velvet? I live in mexico. Jazz and Camilo 27 march 2019 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28 march 2019 When I should do the baths? How many? how much time? at what times? can i make more baths? I do approximately two baths of 30 minutes each one daily each of three teaspoons of salt with double the recommended dosage of the bottle of methylene blue on about three liters witch about the double recommended dosage of malachite green. I read that malachite green and methylene blue are more strong together but i am not sure about that. It is good if I add something to his about 10 to 15 liters main tank apart of the conditioner? The temperature is about 72 F grades and there is malachite green on his main tank with dim lights. and some waste of food. with some plants. I am going to clean the food and poop of the tank and change about 25% of the water. When I should make the changes? Remember that there is malachite green in tank. Instead of malachite green I could add some salt with methylene blue to the main tank? and include the two baths... How many time he have to survive....? So i could make some purchases on Americanaquariumproducts.com ..... Check the photos My betta doesn't eat anymore and is at the bottom. Probably I am going to buy the cupramine, acriflavin, formalin, more salt. but I dont know where to get quinine on Mexico.... I can get the api Master kit. I am thinking of get AAP spectogram for columnaris but the shipping is very expensive and it will arrive on 7 to 12 days to mexico..... and I am not sure about this for velvet with columnaris. If there where a more fast shipping. You can help me to resolve the issues too.. I didnt find the aap mettamax online..... I read some of the articles of Carl. He could have columnaris with velvet? Can I treat these separately if he have these two? He could resist the two strong baths based on the photos? He has like velvet on the fin Look at the mouth is seems like golden but this photo was probably with a flashlight on him Look at the tie and fins Look around the mouth I want to know more about osmoregulation and app wonder shell.
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Post by Carl on Mar 27, 2019 17:36:58 GMT -5
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Mar 28, 2019 12:10:10 GMT -5
Agree that the my fish are sick, what do I do article needs to be read first. Hope for the best with your little guy.
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Post by bluetastic on Mar 28, 2019 18:06:15 GMT -5
I updated the info above.
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Mar 29, 2019 11:28:33 GMT -5
two baths each day are good for 7-10 days. I would stick to Carls advice on the bath.
"*The bath with MB and salt is definitely a good idea. You can add Acriflavin too." "Based on your description, Malachite Green probably is not going to help much"
For the in tank treatment.
"Otherwise, assuming water parameters are spot on, you may want to try AAP BettaMax or even AAP Spectrogram (Spectrogram can aslo be mixed with AAP Super Velvet Plus if need be)"
To know more, I'd need parameters.
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Post by Carl on Mar 29, 2019 12:57:25 GMT -5
First, sorry for the misspelling, it is AAP BettaMax, not MettaMax Knowing parameters is essential, and an API Master Test Kit is not going to provide this since it leaves off GH & KH Reference: www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/02/aquarium-test-kits.htmlAs well this article that I provided earlier, I strongly advise reading also points out: www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2016/09/how-to-treat-sick-fish.htmlAs for osmoregulation, the articles I provided earlier (such as the Disease Prevention articles) have information and links to more in depth discussions as to the importance of osmoregulation, Redox balance and where an AAP Wonder Shell can help Here is more information: www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2006/12/how-do-fish-drink.htmlwww.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumKH.htmlThe pictures through the glass seem to be showing a lot of stains on the glass, but not necessarily on the fish. The picture looking down where there is no glass interfering does not appear to show any velvet of other serious issues, however a few spots that could be Ich, but based on their distribution, size and treatment are more likely to be some type of fungal or bacterial nodules. Direct swabs with AAP Wound Control/Merbromine along with continued baths may help here I understand as far as time to get the products, but this is something beyond my control and I would not be being honest to state other than what I know. You first need to start with better water parameters and measurements of such. This might include better mineral Cations, and use of products such as Betta Spa or Pillow Moss Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Bettas.htmlLet me provide an analogy of where I feel we are at. "You have a sick child (your betta), you are asking a doctor 2000 miles away for advice, but other than some pictures, not provided necessary tools that a doctor would ask such as blood tests (in this case of your betta all important water conditions and a complete history there of other than temperature and treatment), and now the treatments that would provide your best chance of helping this "child" are not available." As you can see it is very difficult for me to help you and if I were a Doctor tyring to help your child it would be nearly impossible Also, please start a new post for each new question or statement rather than adding on to the old one as this makes it easier to follow and read Carl
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Post by bluetastic on Apr 1, 2019 19:21:07 GMT -5
I cant upload photos when I click the reply button. This is why I edited the old one.
I purchased acriflavine, the conditioner of name prime , Paraguard, Cupramine, more salt, a siphon of a Mexican place with, it will arrive tomorrow or the next day after tomorrow... I am going to make a new purchase of the aap store soon. I am going to purchase these: 12 small not medicated wonder shell, Betta spa, betta bio gold, AAP wound control, Bettamax, spectrogram, Methyblu, Super velvet plus... Im not sure when these going to arrive to usa and then to mexico..... I purchased stuff for know the GH and KH but I didn't buy the api freshwater master kit because it seems useless. I can buy more treatments with that money. Measure of the the ammonia and that things of the water of the fish seems useless because is different water of the previous water when he was sick. Probably, the important is to know the parameters of water of jazz( my betta) when he was sick. the water and the parameters that caused this sickness. guys
We can inject anesthesia to the fish and extract the bad stuff for studying the extraction for know what he has.
The guy doesn't eat, he moves a bit for change of place for staying at the bottom like he is resting. I added salt of 2 and half teaspoons and methylene blue (not sure the dosage) to the main aquarium since about three days ago but I am going to remove it.the main tank about 8 liters with dim lights and the temperatures sometimes changes to a bit less than 72 and sometimes 76, the majority of time seems like approximately 72, he lives lonely at the aquarium with plants and I do two baths of 30 minutes with double the recommended dosage of methylene blue and three teaspoons of salt in approximately 3 liters with conditioner, daily. sometimes the baths are about 35, 40 minutes. He surfs a lot when he is at the bath but did not eat the pellets when he was at the bath. I read the things of ammonia, redox, nitrites, nitrates, gh and kh stuff, some of the wonder shells. I read about the nitrogen cycle. I try to clean
I am going to remove the salt and methylene blue of the main aquarium because I read something like that only do it no more than 2 days.
Maybe I am going to add more info this night.
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Post by bluetastic on Apr 1, 2019 19:34:25 GMT -5
Anyone have an idea for know the illness or illnesses....?
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Post by bluetastic on Apr 1, 2019 19:52:35 GMT -5
One time I watched the guy surfing to one side like swim bladder disease for some seconds although he doesn't surf and stays at the bottom without surfing a lot of time. but he surfs and moves well when he is at the bath..... yesterday I saw the guy on this positions a couple of times, imgur.com/a/z4BkMCW
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Post by Carl on Apr 2, 2019 9:26:06 GMT -5
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Post by bluetastic on Apr 2, 2019 10:14:02 GMT -5
Since some weeks ago, I saw him covered with a golden color using a flashlight. That time he had a strip near his mouth of gray color but it changes to a golden color when I put the light directly to the strip that seems like columnaris. It was near the mouth not within the mouth.
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Post by Carl on Apr 3, 2019 13:15:16 GMT -5
Since some weeks ago, I saw him covered with a golden color using a flashlight. That time he had a strip near his mouth of gray color but it changes to a golden color when I put the light directly to the strip that seems like columnaris. It was near the mouth not within the mouth. These definitely could be Columnaris, but as per our articles this is an opportunistic infection that most likely is directly related to water parameters and the previous high temperatures Please Read in full: www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2016/09/how-to-treat-sick-fish.htmlwww.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.htmlCarl
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Post by bluetastic on Apr 3, 2019 14:25:17 GMT -5
Why you need all water parameters? I ordered a kit for GH and kH and maybe you dont need an ammonia, nitrite and nitrate test because he has new clean water. Look at the photos again.Since some weeks ago, I saw him covered with a golden color using a flashlight. That time he had a strip near his mouth of gray color but it changes to a golden color when I put the light directly to the strip that seems like columnaris. It was near the mouth not within the mouth.
I added metronidazole since some weeks ago about for 6 weeks and is still sick. not sure if the metronidazole worked a little bit.
I did read the articles
I am waiting for a diagnosis before purchasing the aap products.
I am thinking what to do.
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Post by Carl on Apr 4, 2019 8:54:46 GMT -5
Why you need all water parameters? I ordered a kit for GH and kH and maybe you dont need an ammonia, nitrite and nitrate test because he has new clean water. Look at the photos again.Since some weeks ago, I saw him covered with a golden color using a flashlight. That time he had a strip near his mouth of gray color but it changes to a golden color when I put the light directly to the strip that seems like columnaris. It was near the mouth not within the mouth. I added metronidazole since some weeks ago about for 6 weeks and is still sick. not sure if the metronidazole worked a little bit. I did read the articles I am waiting for a diagnosis before purchasing the aap products. I am thinking what to do. As per the articles, Columnaris is opportunistic, and to be bluntly honest, even the best medications in the word will fail if stressors remain or there is permanent damage from stressors. These stressors include: high heat (which can be permanent) high ammonia (at any time in the fish' life which too can be permanent) Poor mineralization along with high oxidation Stress from other fish (which likely does not apply here) Your description indicates there has been some Columnaris infection, but stressors and internal issues are the main issue. Certainly treating for Columnaris is a good idea, but there may be permanent internal damage. Improving osmoregulation certainly will go a long ways as well as improving Redox balance Further Reading www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Redox_Potential.htmlCarl
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Apr 4, 2019 10:46:30 GMT -5
Does sound like Columnaris. I would follow the suggested treatment, but also understand what could have caused it, so it can be changed or the even the best treatment will not work or the illness will come back.
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Post by bluetastic on Apr 5, 2019 18:05:29 GMT -5
I give him different pellets of several types and tubiflex but he doesn't eat since about 4 days. He is still alive. But he is loosing color. He saw the food but didn't eat. I read of a forum that a betta with velvet did eat brine shrimp. I read that If “room temp” is not 78-80 degrees, she may not eat. Bettas are tropical fish. He is about 72 F for avoid infection. 72 could be too low. Maybe if I add more plants although there is good quantity of plants. I use conditioner for the water but I didn't know how many liters was in the tank to be exactly, just an approximation.... So i didn't know exactly how many drops of conditioning he needed. Look at the photo imgur.com/a/l9nCUspI read that the principal reason that they lose the color is stress. Sometimes the temperature maybe is less than 72 and sometimes more. and sometimes I dont clean the gravel but I will do it today with the siphon. and he seems stressed when i change to the hospital tank for perform the baths and are two baths per day. These last days I did a 100% water change but I will not do that. The acriflavine, cupramine,paraguard, prime conditioner arrived today. He is having the bath of methylene blue and salt and i added the acriflavin. the recommended dose of the bottle. The previous days i did the same but without acriflavine and he swam a lot but since i added the acriflavine he did not. and he sometimes swim rarely when he is at the bath, could it be because of the salt? its about three of normal size teaspoons of salt in about three liters for 30 minutes each one. Thats good? Today is the first bath with acriflavine. I have the gh and kh kit but I read that the stuff for measure the kh and gh are highly inflammable. How can I measure these things safely? I am reading the articles that you send me. How to know the signs of internal issues? When i should perform the water changes? and is good if i do 50% water changes each day? Its okey if he doesn't eat for more days?
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Post by Carl on Apr 6, 2019 10:33:28 GMT -5
*75 F is the recommended temperature
*Your GH & KH test are perfectly safe
*The symptoms you have been describing are symptoms of internal issues and osmoregulation issues. This is what I have honestly been trying to tell you here
*Water changes can be helpful, it can also be a way to keep up water mineralization depending upn your water source (which also should always be tested)
* As for eating, this is the tough part as often a sick fish (especially with internal issues) will not eat and this of course cannot go on too long
Carl
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Post by bluetastic on Apr 6, 2019 11:24:59 GMT -5
I am not sure of internal issues but about the external.... That strip that looks grey near the mouth that sounds like columnaris and when you put a flashlight its change to a golden color like velvet. I have cupramine, malachite green, methylene blue, paraguard, salt, acriflavin. Can i treat both columnaris and velvet at the same time? He has three bath remaining. devon wrote that baths are good for 10 days.
I am thinking what to do.
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Apr 6, 2019 12:34:45 GMT -5
Seems like an internal issue with the external being opportunist secondary. Bettas are common for having osmoregulation issues. I would focus on pH, GH, and KH, quality food. Then the treatments.
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Post by bluetastic on Apr 6, 2019 19:57:50 GMT -5
The fins are black now. which internal issues?
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