Golden Ram with pop-eye

[Finney]

drive.google.com/file/d/1NJgum19HTpEM_tefgVVlUgBs1WcmGZRqNw/view?usp=sharing

Hi Carl,

Well I thought I'd try Rams again and of course it's not going well ;(
Current Gold Ram was purchased about 3 mos ago along with 1 GBR female and 8 WCMM's
Put them all in QT and did a preventative  Paragaurd treatment for 8 days
Female ram never flourished and died within 4 days. also treated QT tank with General Cure as per instructions and water change at end of treatment.

I kept the male Gold Ram and the 8 WCMM's in QT for another 10 days after treatments ended-all seemed good they were in QT for 4 weeks, so moved them to my 20 gal

after another week I picked up another female GBR and put her in QT and did a preventative paragaurd & Round of General Cure
I kept her in QT for about 3 weeks and she seemed good so I put her in the 20 gal where everything was seeming fine.
She and the male were getting along she colored up good.

a week or two later I noticed some of the WCMM's were getting very tin and eventually I lost 3 of them-slowly and 1 at a time-one of them got thin enough that he bent in the middle, during this time the 2nd female GBR got sick, white stringy feces, darkening I tried baths;MB,salt & tried some medicated food soaks with Metro and Kanamycin she seemed like she was doing better but then went down hill again and died.

The Gold Ram stayed healthy and strong through all of this and it has been 3 weeks or so since the last WCMM died. There was a 4th one that was looking pretty thin but he seems to be putting on weight and getting stronger/eating more and joining the rest of the fish more So I actually thought we were around the corner.

Now on Sat 16th I noticed the Gold Ram's right eye bulging, it got a bit worse since I first noted it and there may be a slight white spot coming up between his eyes but closer to the left (non bulginh) eye.

He seems healthy otherwise, eats like a pig, had a normal brown poop yesterday (I've never seen him with white poop), chases everyone away when he's eating, comes to greet me immediatly (and just floats and stares at me when I'm sitting on the couch)

Other than Reg Wondershell  and some Stress Gaurd, I haven't treated him at all-I feel like taking Rams out for baths has not worked out for them as I've never had one survive

I ordered some AAP Piperazine/Pipzine  & AAP Myacin from you
which should arrive on Friday.
I also have on hand: General Cure, Paragaurd, Metroplex, Kanaplex, Furan 2, Maracyn & Maracyn 2


Tank currently:
 
20 gal high-established Oct 2014

HOB Tetra Whisper EX30 w/Algone sponge media, floss media, & bio-scrubber

HOB Tetra Whisper EX45 w/frog moss bag, sponge media, floss media, & bio-scrubber



1 Gold Ram-w/pop-eye
5 rummy nose tetras (active w/good color)

5 Corydoras Pygmaeus

1 Dwarf Honey Gourami
1 BN Pleco-orange
5 White Cloud Mtn Minnows




Parameters On 2/20/19



Last water change on Sunday
Temp 80.7 df


Using test strips:
PH 6.8 (tap water is 8.4) I use Frog moss & driftwood to bring it down
KH 40 ppm
GH 300 ppm-tap is 150 use Wondershell it is always this high
Ammonia 0
NitrAtes 40

Nitrites 0

Sorry for the novel! Let me know if the video doesn't work, and if you can view the still shot below
you can kind of see the white spot near his left eye even though it's not very clear.



Thanks for your help on this and on my other tank (29 to 45 move)-This hobby sure has it's highs and lows

[devonjohnsgard]

Rams are tough. They have less survival rates, just based on stock. There's not much we can do.

I would try measuring the parameters of the fish store. Make sure the fish hasn't just arrived at the store too. Allow a week or so. Match the parameters and slowly change the parameters over time. I would check their pH. You're might be much lower than theirs and that would be a harsh adjustment for them.

[Carl]

While only an anecdotal observation; one thing I have noticed over the years of keeping, selling and speaking with others as to Ram Cichlids is it often seems to come down to stock/source.
While water parameters are certainly very important with these fish, the more common issue seems to be stock/source.

This can come down to parasites, or being kept in water with high ammonia or other issues that permanently damage the fish (such as liver/kidney damage)

As for treatment, Pipzine is very good, but the one I had the most success with when used for food mixing is AAP Discomed
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquatronics.html#discomed

AAP Naladin has also worked for unexplained fish death.
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquatronics.html#naladixic

This said, if there is permanent organ damage fro poor care prior to you obtaining the fish, there is little you can do

Carl

[Finney]

Hi Carl & Devon,

So my order came and I decided to treat with Pipzine. The Ram did have a white poo a couple times now and I noticed one of the white clouds with white poo as well and one still fairly thin white cloud. Since I have lost 3 white clouds and 2 GBR's I decided to treat the tank.

first dose pipzine today

Parameters On 2/25/19



Last water change today before adding pipzine
Temp 80.7 df


Using test strips:
PH 6.8 (tap water is 8.4) I use Frog moss & driftwood to bring it down
KH <40 ppm
GH 300 ppm-tap is 150 use Wondershell it is always this high
Ammonia 0
NitrAtes 40
Nitrites 0

reg wondershell
Stressguard
Alkaline buffer less than 1/4 tsp

His one eye is still very protruded is there something else I should add to the treatment?
I am concerned about taking him out of the tank for a bath as every Ram I've tried t treat gets very stressed when I take them out for baths, and then it is a quick decline.

He is still swimming around and eating but does seem a little less active today and his mouth "breathing" is more rapid.

Should I add salt to the tank in addition to the current Pipzine, Stressgaurd &Wondershell? Any other suggestions?

The in-tank treatment is for the rest of the fish as well and I would like to see if I can bring this guy around.
I will probably stay away from rams for a long time again, just doesn't seem to be any good stock near me.

I did visit a guy yesterday that had a lot of tanks and in one 200 gal he had 5 GBR that were huge and healthy (and no they weren't Bolivians - Now if he'd just breed some for me

[Carl]

You need to get this into their food

See/Reference:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Medication.html#food_delivery

As per Wonder Shells, I would only use a couple Small Wonder Shells or a 1/8 to a 1/4 of a Medium AAP WS at most.

StressGuard is a good idea!
Salt, at most 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons at most for Rams

Carl

[Finney]

Using 1/4 od Med wondershell
Stress gaurd

I gave one dose of Pipzine on Monday in tank,

should I do 2nd dose today in tank or switch to in food?
What other medication can I combine with Pipzine?

He is now swelling up tho not pine-coned yet, and has a red line on his side/belly, breathing heavy and not working to hard to get to the food (he used to be pretty aggressive about eating) he is also starting to hide.

I am thinking I should go ahead and try a bath too as he is just getting worse anyway

[Finney]

I have these meds on hand

General Cure
*AAP Merbromin
*AAP Myacin Erythromycin Phosphate
*AAP Maracyn Two
Maracyn
*AAP Furan 2
*AAP Kanamycin/Kanaplex
*AAP Metronidazole
*AAP Methylene Blue
Posassium Permanganate

[devonjohnsgard]

I would switch to getting it in the food. And baths are a good idea it sounds like.

[Carl]

My suggestion is to continue in tank treatment as prescribed in the Pipzine directions (three treatments) along WITH the bath and feeding.

Based on your description, I would like to see Neomycin added to the feeding, which is why the AAP Discomed might be the better food additive in your case

Carl

[Finney]

Thanks for your response, unfortunately, he died already. I will order some Discomed to have on hand, it just wasn't one of the medications I had purchased.

[Carl]

Feb 28, 2019 20:32:20 GMT -5 Finney said:

Thanks for your response, unfortunately, he died already. I will order some Discomed to have on hand, it just wasn't one of the medications I had purchased.

Sorry to read this.

Often there is no magic bullet.
You can do everything right and some fish will die
You can do everything wrong and some fish will live

Carl