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Post by barbara on Jan 15, 2009 15:52:08 GMT -5
I talk to my fish too. Especially the skittish ones. And I tend to cuss the ones that I can't catch.
And names for the 3...Larry, Curly and Moe? Huey, Dewey and Louie? They won't care if you call them by the wrong name...LOL
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Post by brenda on Jan 15, 2009 17:05:04 GMT -5
Those are cute ideas Barbara..
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Post by kagome on Jan 16, 2009 14:15:32 GMT -5
Renee--there have been no other symptoms at all. The ammonia in the tank has been at zero now for two days. Spike is no longer breathing rapidly, I'm not sure what to think about that. He seems to be pretty much back to perfectly normal.
I was thinking of naming the angelicus loaches Athos, Porthos, and Aremus. But something more comical might be fitting since they are so goofy. Thanks for the suggestions Barbara.
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Post by kagome on Jan 18, 2009 19:42:21 GMT -5
Current 10g numbers:
ammonia--0
nitrite--0
nitrate--20
GH--75
KH--80
pH--7.2
Should I be concerned about my KH?
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Post by goldenpuon on Jan 19, 2009 13:43:16 GMT -5
Well, unless you have soft-water fish, the KH and GH should be a bit higher. Do your fish like acidic, basic, or alkaline water best and what PH?
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Post by kagome on Jan 19, 2009 22:18:29 GMT -5
I am just not having a good week. One of my angelicus loaches died and I'm very unhappy about it. I really don't get it. The water conditions are really good and have been quite stable in that tank for a long time. They all seemed to be doing really well. I added an extra powerhead to make sure they have the extra flow they like. I keep the tank clean, but not overly so. There's great filtration in that tank. The fish didn't seem to be sick. But then today I noticed that one of the other angelicus is breathing rapidly so I gave him an MB bath. I'm going to give him another one tomorrow. I'm so frustrated.
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Post by jonv on Jan 19, 2009 23:12:53 GMT -5
This is rather puzzeling myself. I can only take shots in the dark Kag, sorry if I can't narrow this down. Are you using any salt? Just a real shot in the dark here, but if you are not adding any levels of salt, MAYBE there is some sort of mineral missing that's causing the problem. I really dunno. Acclimation certainly can't be the problem. Are you using carbon? Maybe it's a trace mineral problem? I wish I could think of more things. Carl might have some better insight here.
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Post by brenda on Jan 19, 2009 23:18:19 GMT -5
That is troubling...Sorry about your loach. Maybe Jon is on the right path as far as minerals go...Do you use any products like wondershells or anything that replenishes minerals back into your tank? What do you feed your guys?
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Post by Carl on Jan 19, 2009 23:19:05 GMT -5
I am just not having a good week. One of my angelicus loaches died and I'm very unhappy about it. I really don't get it. The water conditions are really good and have been quite stable in that tank for a long time. They all seemed to be doing really well. I added an extra powerhead to make sure they have the extra flow they like. I keep the tank clean, but not overly so. There's great filtration in that tank. The fish didn't seem to be sick. But then today I noticed that one of the other angelicus is breathing rapidly so I gave him an MB bath. I'm going to give him another one tomorrow. I'm so frustrated. I am really sorry to read this kagome. I noticed that your GH was low (your KH is fine for the fish you are keeping), I am surprised at your GH since you have used Wonder Shells, are you currently adding these? If so, this is an unusual reading and I have to wonder if organics may be "absorbing" these minerals. Back to the Angelicus Loach, have you used Metronidazole? At this point I would consider adding this to the baths with MB (at double dose) as well to the tank at regular strength. I wish I could come by and see your tank, as this has got to be so frustrating, especially since I know how much you love your Loaches. Carl
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Post by kagome on Jan 19, 2009 23:46:58 GMT -5
Jon--I do not have salt in the 10g where the angelicus are because it's not a great idea to add salt in with them unless you have to, they can be very sensitive to it. I do have some salt in with the clown loaches that are in the 38g though. I am using carbon in the filters of both tanks currently. Brenda--I do use wondershells, I could have sworn I put one in there not that long ago. I usually wait a week or so before adding another one as it is a small tank. As soon as I checked my numbers the other day I added a new wondershell. In that tank I feed Hikari sinking catfish wafers, Hikari algae wafers for the clown pleco (one small piece of one at night) and Flake Frenzy flake food. Everyone has been eating like little piggies. I give them several small meals a day since the angelicus are still juveniles. They have been eating every scrap of pelleted food and then forage around for the flakes the gourami misses. Carl--I am frustrated but still hopeful I can save the other angelicus. I would hate for the third to be all alone and I just can't replace these fish right now, they are very pricey and I am quite broke at the moment. I have not tried the Metronidazole as I don't have any. I think my buddy might have some of the medicated food that has that in it, he was saying he has this parasite treatment food that's good for new loaches and other wild caught fish. Would that work? I'm sure I lost Gh from doing water changes since our water is so soft, and then forgot when I added the last wondershell and so didn't realize I was due to put another in there. Actually, I know exactly what I did, I put one in the big tank and was going to put one in the little tank and then I had to go do something, probably like the baby waking up or something, and then I forgot to go back and do the little tank. I know that was an extreme run-on sentence, but I'm sure you get my drift. Well, I know I put one in there for sure today so the Gh should go back up. I wish you could stop by and take a look at the tanks. I would make you a glass of iced tea and grill you some ribs for you trouble
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Post by jonv on Jan 19, 2009 23:53:24 GMT -5
You may want to try a smaller dose of salt Kag. I use salt in my African tanks which do have cories, botia's and the loaches, and they do react the first night after the change then settle in. When I read over Carl's article on salts, there is new university studies out there showing that even the Loaches and catfish do need some salt. I'm just saying, maybe consider using a lower then typical dose of salt is all. The use of the wonder shells and your readings on the GH KH posted make me thing more what Carl said. It sounds like something is "using" up your minerals too rapidly.
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Post by Carl on Jan 20, 2009 0:57:37 GMT -5
You may want to try a smaller dose of salt Kag. I use salt in my African tanks which do have cories, botia's and the loaches, and they do react the first night after the change then settle in. When I read over Carl's article on salts, there is new university studies out there showing that even the Loaches and catfish do need some salt. I'm just saying, maybe consider using a lower then typical dose of salt is all. The use of the wonder shells and your readings on the GH KH posted make me thing more what Carl said. It sounds like something is "using" up your minerals too rapidly. Yes, I am still curious as to your GH being so low, however this may simply have been from water changes without replenishment Usually the comment I get from persons using Wonder Shells is how much their GH climbed, and stayed up. BTW, I added a map on the Aquarium GH/KH article for overall water hardness in the lower 48 USA. You and I are both in low GH/KH areas. Because of this, even with small water changes I add either a small amount of buffer or Cichlid Salt and keep the Wonder Shells in constantly Jon, just a little clarification, that is the University studies show they can tolerate salt for a certain time period such as the time needed to effect a cure for diseases. That said, adding a small amount of salt temporarily may help treat this problem by encouraging more mucous to form and drawing more fluids from the body. Kagome; Metronidazole is found in many preparations from food to parasite treatments, although often pure Metronidazole will work best. Metronidazole does often work well fed in a food though, as it does not get readily absorbed by the intestinal tract, so it can remain active in the gut if the problem is there (such as internal flagellates). Thanks for the rib offer, that sure sound good Carl
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Post by kagome on Jan 20, 2009 19:59:11 GMT -5
I put salt in both aquariums. I used the reduced rate of one teaspoon per five gallons since I am leery about hurting the loaches. When I am flush again I think I will try getting some of the cichlid salt since my water is so soft.
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Post by kagome on Jan 21, 2009 10:52:25 GMT -5
OK, I don't know who I made angry but now both tanks are sick. Right before I put the salt in both tanks yesterday I noticed that the loaches in both tanks were scratching themselves. They were scratching even more this morning and one of the clown loaches looks like she has a protozoan skin infection. In the other tank the smaller angelicus loach is still breathing rapidly and is now scratching. So I took the carbon out of both filters and added some quick cure since that's two of the symptoms listed for use of quick cure. When my other clown loach had similar looking stuff growing on him the quick cure cleared it up. I don't know what I have done to anger the aquarium gods, but I sure hope I can atone for it.
So here's a quick recap since I tend to ramble when upset:
In the 10g rapidly breathing angelicus loach
both angelicus loaches are scratching
In the 38g both clown loaches are scratching
one clown loach has what looks like some sort of protozoan on her top line right in front of dorsal fin, could be the beginnings of velvet
this is also the tank where skinny disease causing flagellates could be running a muck
GRRR!!! ARGH!!!
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Post by murdock6701 on Jan 21, 2009 13:03:54 GMT -5
am sorry you're having tank problems too - losing fish is definitely worse than a snail invasion - wish you luck and also wish I had an answer - ever thought about adding some dither fish such as platys or something simple just to get it established?
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Post by eve on Jan 21, 2009 13:19:06 GMT -5
that just absolutely sucks, i'm sorry about that any chance they might have parasites?
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Post by kagome on Jan 21, 2009 14:14:00 GMT -5
I don't know what they've got for sure. Right now I am treating for protozoans and will also be treating for internal parasites soon.
murdock-- At this point the 38g is pretty well established and the numbers are stable. The 10g that has the angelicus loaches in it has been set up for well over a year. While cycling trouble may have weakened the fish somewhat I don't think that is what is actually wrong with the fish right now, especially the angelicus as they have only ever been in the thoroughly cycled 10g.
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Post by bikeguy33 on Jan 21, 2009 21:26:30 GMT -5
it is more than likely a parasite....any med for a parasitic infection should work....
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Post by kagome on Jan 23, 2009 10:57:54 GMT -5
I am starting to lose hope for the clown loach in the 38g. Although the quick cure seems to be helping the angelicus loaches in the 10g, Buffy the smaller clown loach in the 38g does not seem to be doing any better, in fact she seems worse. I'm really hoping the Metronidazole will arrive today. I don't know how much longer she can hold out. So far the other clown loach and the pleco seem alright, but then so did Buffy until a few days ago. I am going to catch her today and give her a medicated bath, I really hope that helps. I'm beginning to fear that I am going to lose everything in that tank. This just sucks.
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Post by murdock6701 on Jan 23, 2009 12:11:12 GMT -5
am very sorry to hear this K.....wish I had an answer - when I went thru the problems w/ my rams, it lingered so long and was so frustrating to watch, it made me want to euthanize them all just end the inevitable - can't say you haven't done everything under the sun to save them - I laud you on your efforts and weep w/ you at your frustration and loss
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