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Post by kagome on Nov 28, 2008 17:45:43 GMT -5
So I've completely decided that I'm going to put green severums in the tank. I just don't know how many I could put in the tank because they do get pretty big. I used to have some big gold severums in a 45g and they did really well. I'd like to get two small ones and let them grow up. I know some people trade in fish when they get too big, but I really don't like to do that because when I take on an animal I feel that I have made a commitment to keep it and take care of it for the rest of it's life. I felt terrible about the tanks that I've had to give up and I still miss the fish and wish I had them back. So if the tank can't sustain at least two adult severums than I guess I will have to come up with some other species to put in the tank. My husband keeps arguing that the tank can sustain at least three adult severums because we keep the tank so clean. I tend to listen to his opinion about such things. When he was married to his first wife in West Virginia he had tanks all over his house, he even had a community tank that had fish from every continent except Antarctica. So he keeps pushing for three severums, I think he misses his old ones. If I could manage three severums I guess I'd want two greens and one gold. I'd love to get a red or a blue but they are not available around here.
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Post by murdock6701 on Nov 28, 2008 19:15:00 GMT -5
howdy, hope I'm not being a party pooper here but don't green severums get to be 8" long? 3 seems like a lot for a 38 gallon tank if you're going to have other fish in there.....I'm a novice at cichlids, just set off a bell - please forgive me if I'm wrong!
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Post by bikeguy33 on Nov 28, 2008 21:21:41 GMT -5
i have to agree that 38 gallons is too small for 3 severums. in that space...they can be kept physically healthy....but i doubt very happy. if you were willing to trade fish in down the road 3 juvi`s would work great...but as you stated...you do not like to do that...
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Post by Carl on Nov 29, 2008 19:07:46 GMT -5
This is basically a paste from another similar thread kagome asked a similar question I know others may disagree, but I know you CAN keep at least two severums with a few other fish successfully in your approx. 40 gallon aquarium as I know I have kept similar combinations. I will go a step further (as I noted in a PM) that tank size, fish numbers, fish temperament are certainly important parts of the fish bio load/number question, HOWEVER what is also often forgotten is filtration, decor and chemistry. I performed MANY controlled test/studies using goldfish about 10 years ago and found I could not only keep goldfish in numbers generally considered higher than the popular numbers (1 adult per 10 gallons is the generally recommended number) but that they lived long and disease free lives. What was the other keys were excellent chemistry which included the usual low nitrites/ammonia/nitrates, but also adequate mineralization, proper Redox, very good redundant filtration, AND UV Sterilization (which improves Redox as well). See this article for more: Aquarium Answers; Fish StuntingCarl
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Post by kagome on Nov 30, 2008 22:23:16 GMT -5
Thanks for the help Carl.
So I checked the ammonia level in the 38g again as usual and unfortunately it is still at 1.0. I just keep adding the Prime and trying to be patient. The clown loaches still seem to be doing great. They are very active and becoming much more responsive to me. They eat every scrap of food that I put in the tank and still spend a good part of the day foraging. They are also growing quite nicely. I've noticed that they have their own little pecking order. I make sure to break up the sinking wafers into several pieces to make sure that everybody gets to eat. They now definitely associate me coming up to the tank with food being dropped into the tank and so they come and beg for food even when I'm doing things like trying to run water quality tests. Every day they seem to get more comfortable with their surroundings. It's also funny that they completely disappear every night after 7:30pm. I keep trying to figure out where they hide at night but I haven't been able to so far. I just really want that damn ammonia level to come down and I hope it finally starts dropping soon.
I'm starting to worry about my gourami. I think he may be at the end of his lifespan. I've been looking up blue gouramies and everything says that they live somewhere around four years and I've had him for five years now. He still swims and eats and doesn't look sick but he just doesn't look as robust since he got sick this last time. He used to be more active, resting very little and swimming a good part of the day. I know he can't live forever, but he's my little buddy and I would hate to see him go.
Oh yeah, and I asked my husband to get me a UV sterilizer for Christmas. What a weird girl I am, I asked for a fish tank for our anniversary and now I'm asking for more fish tank stuff for Christmas!
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Post by Carl on Nov 30, 2008 22:47:10 GMT -5
I hope your gourami hangs in there, I have to agree that 4 years is about what I have seen with, blue/gold/opaline/pearl gouramis.
Your ammonia should start coming down soon, I would change 20% of your water right before adding Prime, probaly just by siphoning (no vacuuming) so as to preserve a "food" source for the nitrifying bacteria.
Carl
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Post by kagome on Dec 2, 2008 10:21:16 GMT -5
Current 38g numbers Nitrate-under 20 Nitrite-0 Gh-150 Kh-80 Ph-7.2 Ammonia-1.0 Also, brown algae is starting to pop up in the tank.
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Post by Carl on Dec 2, 2008 10:34:58 GMT -5
Honestly those are not all that bad of numbers considering the age of this set up. With the exception of ammonia (& even this is not terrible, I would classify 1.0 to mean "caution, do not add more fish, watch carefully") Your other numbers are right on and even the brown algae is not unusal for a tank of your age that is not quite fully cycled. If your brown algae persists past your tank fully cycling, there are steps to take, but this is nothing to worry about at this time. Aquarium AlgaeCarl
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Post by kagome on Dec 3, 2008 0:30:08 GMT -5
Thanks for the article Carl. I always learn so much from your online stuff. I've had brown algae before and it has always disappeared once the tank was settled in. Hopefully that will also be the case this time.
I was thinking that once the big tank is cycled and I put the pleco and clown in there that I will need a suitable cleaning crew for the 10g. I think I will get a Chinese butterfly loach since I now have such good flow in the tank and the lighting does ensure algae growth. I want some sort of small bottom feeder that will not outgrow the tank and so can happily live out its life in that tank. I was thinking of yoyo's or zebra loaches since they don't get very big but then they need to be in groups so I'm not sure if that would be wise. Maybe some upside down cats or cories. Hmmmmmmmmm... I have to admit that I have a thing for loaches, so maybe I'll try and squeak out three zebras. Of course I still have time to ponder all of this. I swear, all I do lately is day dream about what kinds of fish I'm going to put in my tanks.
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Post by murdock6701 on Dec 3, 2008 8:25:08 GMT -5
simple Kagoma, just go out and get more tanks! or build a pond on the farm! sorry, couldn't resist! but a small pond would work - you have the climate - I did it here in northern Michigan - granted it's not going now, butit was a fun project and it worked so well I'm starting it up next year! good luck in you decision making - know it can be awefully difficult - going thru the same thing here trying to replace my rams....too many choices but yet, just not the right one....
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Post by kagome on Dec 3, 2008 9:26:20 GMT -5
I've always wanted a pond out here but my mom is dead set against it since ponds out here do tend to attract water moccasins (some people know them as cotton mouths). I was thinking of having one of those little free standing ones that step two makes. I put it on the patio and have like three goldfish in it. But it does get down to freezing here so I guess I would have to add a heater. Our climate is much more like southern Alabama than that of what people, including myself, think of as typical Florida. I used to live in south Florida, just north of the Everglades, we went surfing on Christmas day, that was the LIFE!
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Post by kagome on Dec 3, 2008 22:41:17 GMT -5
I put some gravel from the 10g into the 38g. I'm hoping that this will help seed the good bacteria in the tank. The ammonia is still at 1.0. For now when I do water changes I will only siphon off water instead of vacuuming the gravel. Once the ammonia comes down completely I will do a thorough vacuuming of the gravel. So far when I have vacuumed there was almost nothing there anyway. With just the 3 little clown loaches there really isn't much mulm anyway.
I'm still looking into loaches for the 10g when the bigger fish go to the big tank.
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Post by murdock6701 on Dec 3, 2008 22:53:04 GMT -5
did you ever try the ammomia chips? they're cheap and work great!
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Post by kagome on Dec 4, 2008 13:14:00 GMT -5
did you ever try the ammomia chips? they're cheap and work great! Crap!! I totally forgot about that! I can't believe I did that! It must have been because of all the craziness with getting ready for Thanksgiving and then the whole family was in town and then I was cooking for ten hours and then cleaning up after everybody left. Plus, at all times I must take care of the 15 month old, or as I like to call him the Tiny Tornado! I'll try and run down the street and get some today once the little guy wakes up from his nap. But will using the ammo chips effect the cycling of the tank?
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Post by murdock6701 on Dec 4, 2008 13:39:29 GMT -5
in a positive way, much like charcoal - helps remove ammonia neutralize) much like charcoal does for nitrates
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Post by kagome on Dec 4, 2008 13:51:21 GMT -5
Also, I was wondering how long it takes for good bacteria to colonize filter media in an established tank? I was thinking of putting the sponge prefilter from my 10g on the intake of my 38g filter to further the "seeding" process, but the prefilter has only been in the 10g for ten days. Once the 38g was fully cycled I would then put that filter back in the ten since the 38 has the big sponge filter.
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Post by goldenpuon on Dec 4, 2008 15:56:10 GMT -5
It depends. for a whole tank to cycle it can take 4-6 weeks but if there is already beneficial bacteria in the tank and it is just the filter I am not sure. I've never tested that myself. But I'd imagine it would be a bit less than 6 weeks if the tank is already cycled. Sorry I couldn't help more.
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Post by bikeguy33 on Dec 4, 2008 18:34:03 GMT -5
the only way to really tell a tank is fully cycled is to test and record all conditions in your water(or as many as possible). it is very true that adding good healthy media greatly speeds things up. also....when it is looking good and staying fairly consistant, add a couple canary in a coal mine type fish. this sounds cruel....but fish being present is an important step in final cycling. also, things like zebra danios are cheap and incredibly hardy and do well in a near cycled tank.
also...the ammo neutrilizers work great....but what it does is converts ammo into a harmless by-product. where the catch comes in tho....the new chemical in most of these treatments...still shows up as ammonia on your test kit....even tho it is no longer ammo. did that make any sense??
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Post by Carl on Dec 4, 2008 19:39:37 GMT -5
did you ever try the ammomia chips? they're cheap and work great! Good point John! I have used Ammo Chips for years, including ponds with good results. Basically these are zeolite (which is also used in kitty litter) and it literally absorbs and binds the ammonia, however under certain conditions, in particular high salt content water it can rellease the ammonia back. Obviously this will "rob" the nitrifying bacteria of some of their food, in your filter, HOWEVER if you leave the ammo chips in long enough (6-8 weeks at least), the nitrifying bacteria will find its way there and even the ammochips can be used for seeding. For this reason I never left ammo chips in an established aquariums much longer than 4 weeks unless in an area withot oxygen, otherwise they can become nitrate factories. Your idea of using the Sponge Pre-Filter would be helpful, even if is not fully seeded. See this article for more about filter media (inclding Zeolite/carbon) Aquarium Answers; Filter MediaCarl
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Post by kagome on Dec 4, 2008 23:09:59 GMT -5
Ok, so a buddy of mine had ammo chips and a little drawstring net bag. So I put in the chips but I couldn't figure out how to fit the bag into the HOB filter so I put the bag on the bottom of the tank right under the flow of the filter. I hope that will be ok. I measured out the chips according to the package and trying to get it into the filter was like trying to fit the proverbial 10 pounds of poop into a five pound bag. I made sure to rinse it well before putting it in the tank, as per the instructions. Tomorrow I plan to do a 30% water change.
My buddy also had a brine shrimp spirulina algae mix food that his fish did not care for. I gave a little bit to my gourami and he went so crazy for it that it was funny. He kept coming up to the glass and flashing his colors so I gave him a little bit more to reward him for putting on such a good show. He didn't want to let the clown loach to have any but Spike is just too fast for him. I figured I would pinch a little off every few days and give it to them as a treat. I really wonder why my friend's angelfish didn't want it, I guess they're finicky. I was going to give my pleco some cucumber as a treat but I wasn't sure if I should blanch it or give it to him raw.
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