White poop, no appetite, strange behavior

[pherknee682]

10 gallon freshwater aquarium with 4 male guppies and 1 pond snail.
API 5 in 1 test strips
GH 60
KH 40
pH 7.0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20

50% water change done this afternoon due to lots of gunk in gravel while vacuuming.

Upon recommendation of local pet store (not big chain), I started treatment of PraziPro for what he thought was parasite based on symptoms. He also suggested feeding peas as a laxative.

First treatment of PraziPro given today. How long should it take to see improvement if it is a parasite? Is there anything else I can do to help my little guys out?

[Carl]

A picture and more description of symptoms would be helpful, as this can be a problem of Aeromonas bacteria too, which is often an opportunistic bacteria.

I can say your KH & especially GH is much too low for Guppies, a common cause of osmoregulation issues which can show up as weak fish, curved spine, etc.

Further Reading:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Livebearers.html#guppy
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Vibrio_Aeromonas.html

Carl

[devonjohnsgard]

Second the KH and GH, until the water is suitable for the fish, no treatment will really help.

[pherknee682]

The remaining guppies seem to hang out near the water line in either back corner. Seldom go to the mid section or lower like they used to unless it's to hide in the house. 

I've also noticed since yesterday there seems to be an abundance of brownish gunk on the filter, at the base of the heater and on some of the plastic plant leaves. Would this be algae? Have only ever seen green algae. 

[Carl]

Thanks for sharing the photos, this was very helpful, as I was able to see the fish' overall way they are holding their bodies, which along with the look of the "white poop", does not appear to indicate a parasite infection.
This said, treating with PraziPro certainly will not hurt either and is still a good idea in case I am wrong.

My personal opinion (based experience and the look of these fish) is this is a internal Aeromonas infection.
soaking fish food with Metronidazole and Neomycin might be a good addition to what you are already doing.
More importantly problems such as this are 9 times out of 10 related to water conditions and diet.

As noted earlier, you definitely need a higher GH/KH, using either Medicated or Regular AAP Wonder shells is a start.
What are you currently feeding?

Recommended Further Reading:
www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2016/09/how-to-treat-sick-fish.html
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Medication.html#food_delivery

Product Resources:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/MedicatedWonderShell.html
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Seachem.html

Carl

[pherknee682]

What I am offering as food (that was the best big chain had), along with products being added to water. The prime and praxi-pro are new as of Friday. The microbe-lift came from big chain store where we got the tank and fish, along with the food.

After my disappointment of product availability and staff knowledge at big chain I headed to the local little guy shop. That's where I was suggested to get regular wonder shells, praxi-pro and prime. I had been used Aqueon water conditioner since setup but had run out after Thursday's 50% water change during vacuuming. 

[pherknee682]

Added note. My concern with offering medicated food is with them not eating it since they aren't really eating much if any as it is.

[pherknee682]

Lost two guys sometime since last night. Found one of our cobra guppies this morning with his tail caught in the filter tube and one of our regular guppies belly up inside the house. Down to 2 fish living now, 1 cobra and 1 regular. The cobra was the one I noticed with white poop yesterday. The one inside the house was pictured next to the cobra that has what looked like a swollen abdomen to me.

Tested water again this morning.
GH 180 (highest it goes on my chart)
KH 80 (still low)
pH 7.0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20

Suggestions on how to safely raise GH and KH to the desired parameters? Added a second small wonder shell (non medicated) after reading package instructions. Had only used 1 small initially based on directions from the owner of our local fish store.


Tested water this evening about 2 hours after adding second wonder shell.

GH 180+
KH 40 (completely at a loss here)
pH 6.5
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20

Very frustrating learning as you go and watching fish die off one by one. Our remaining cobra guppy has become more active and is swimming around the tank now but still isn't really eating. The plain guppy has been hanging out near the bottom either hiding in plants or in the house. Suspecting he may be next to go. The 2 snails have become more active since adding the wonder shells at least.

[pherknee682]

After doing quite a bit of reading, especially on this article, americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumKH.html#correctph, I'm wondering if my driftwood (or mopani wood) in my tank is part of the cause for low KH numbers?

[Carl]

The driftwood will add tanins that deplete KH.

Using Seachem Alkaline or Malawi Buffer will raise KH. You are already raising GH with Wonder Shells

At this point with the rapid die off, it is likely this is not a parasite infection. Unfortunately getting the meds where needed is difficult if the fish are not eating.

Probably the best course of action is a medicated Fish bath which include Methylene Blue, Metronidazole, & furan 2 along with a Furan 2 & a Medicated Wonder Shell (over the regular one) in the aquarium.

The Omega Fish food is good (while not the best), and likely not part of this problem.

As for the Microb Lift Special Blend this is made up by Heterotrophs and would not help and can hurt by replacing necessary autotrophic bacteria (which can then result in wide sings in ammonia, nitrites between dosing). Honestly i am not in agreement of any of the claims made by this company
Ref.
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Nitrogen_Cycle.html

Unfortunately, from what you are describing you might be past the point of return.

Often the key is prevention, so following as many points (really all) in this article can make a difference for future issues.
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Disease.html

Carl

[devonjohnsgard]

Well, welcome to the hobby. You'll be a pro in no time.

[pherknee682]

Holding on to hope for my last little cobra guppy. Last night under suspicion that the other guppy may die soon I removed him and put him in a temp holding container. After removing him my cobra became a lot more active and started eating. He still appeared to be going strong this morning where as the removed guppy ended up going belly up.

I also removed the mopani wood and did a 20% water change as was due. I was down with a migraine majority of the day so didn't make it into town to pick up meds for the tank yet, but will be doing that first thing tomorrow.

I want to make sure I get everything I need to have on hand for getting this tank right for the next group of inhabitants in this tank.

I know I need to get Metronidazole, Neomycin, SeaChem Alkaline or Malawi buffer, and SeaChem Stability. Is there anything else you would recommend?

Thanks in advance :-)

[Carl]

Sept 25, 2017 21:28:07 GMT -5 pherknee682 said:

Holding on to hope for my last little cobra guppy. Last night under suspicion that the other guppy may die soon I removed him and put him in a temp holding container. After removing him my cobra became a lot more active and started eating. He still appeared to be going strong this morning where as the removed guppy ended up going belly up.

I also removed the mopani wood and did a 20% water change as was due. I was down with a migraine majority of the day so didn't make it into town to pick up meds for the tank yet, but will be doing that first thing tomorrow.

I want to make sure I get everything I need to have on hand for getting this tank right for the next group of inhabitants in this tank.

I know I need to get Metronidazole, Neomycin, SeaChem Alkaline or Malawi buffer, and SeaChem Stability. Is there anything else you would recommend?

Thanks in advance :-)

"Medicated Wonder Shells", which with Livebearers has been a very good part of treatment and especially "first response" disease prevention

Removing the wood was likely a good idea too. I normally would not keep driftwood with livebearers. While I have never done any controlled tests, I have made several observations that Aeromonas outbreaks were much more common with livebearers in aquariums with driftwood

Carl