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Post by kagome on Nov 17, 2008 15:13:56 GMT -5
I can sympathize with having a neat freak husband! I have to make sure to put all my fish stuff back in its "proper" place or hear about how I never put stuff away. I couldn't really tell for the picture whether or not your tank is on a stand with a cabinet or if is on a table. If it's on a stand with a cabinet, could you put water you're setting out in the cabinet and hide it from view that way? Or if it's a table I would suggest buying a piece of cloth and draping it over the tabletop down to the floor to make a "skirt" and then you could hide things under there that way. Some time when the tank has little to no water in it you could move the tank for a minutes and put the cloth under it. You could even get cloth that would match the rest of the decor in your living room and then your husband couldn't groan about the appearance of things.
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Post by cashay on Nov 18, 2008 7:27:43 GMT -5
;D well at least I'm not alone here... lol he can be a butt head some times hahaha but my tank actually does sit on a cabinet but it is one of those stands with a stereo in it, with the record player on the top but all in the case, I can put my little stuff in there like the food and little stuff like that, I just fill my 2 quart jugs up and put them over beside the couch where no one can see them unless they actually looked for them. heh heh. But something big I couldn't get away with, As the long as the prime is mixed with the water though and sits over night this would be ok wouldn't it? I have to get the PH and KH up on my tank though, I used marine buffer two capfuls last night to bring it up and still nothing! Nitrate-20 Nitrite- 0 GH- 300 KH-0 PH 5.8 Ammonia- 0 I have a completely bare tank except for the filters one HB and one sponge.. two little heaters..
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Post by Suzie Q (Lori) on Nov 18, 2008 10:03:27 GMT -5
OMG! I thought I was the only one with a neat freak for a husband! LOL Mine has OCD too...which makes it MUCH worse!
I only have my Betta at home (no big tank yet) and I keep the buckets in my bathroom. Once I get my big tank, I'll keep water outside in a plastic trash can (new and clean of course).
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Post by goldenpuon on Nov 18, 2008 11:28:10 GMT -5
Yep, I live with a person with OCD too, my mom. She makes me clean up like crazy! There can not be a stray drip of water on the carpet, whether it's fish water or clean from the tap. I have OCD too so then I end up obsessing with cleaning which makes it worse. lol She's also a noise phobic. When i set up my 40 in the living room, she was afraid it would keep her up at night in her bedroom and she said I should move it to my room. It ended up being ok though, for some reason, she doesn't seem to notice that the filter hums louder than most. lol
Cashay,
I wonder why the KH is so low. The Marien Buffer should bring it up. Are you sure your readings are correct? Also, the PH (as you mentioned in a PM) is very low. Your water is also very hard which is strange for such a low PH. I'm afraid I don't know wht I can say to help. At least your nitrites and ammonia is down. At least that is better. Maybe Carl or Bill can figure this out.
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Post by Carl on Nov 18, 2008 11:28:44 GMT -5
Your pH/KH numbers make no sense based on your use SeaChem Buffer in a bare tank.
Could you perform an experiment when you get home? *Draw some tap water and let it sit out for 1/2 hour *Test the KH and or PH *Then add 1/2 teaspoon of Buffer per 5 gallons and re-test
You should observe an noticable increase in KH, if not your test kit or buffer has an "issue"
If you see a change, add more to your tank (small increments though). If this problem continues in your BARE tank, we need to look at outside sources of the problem.
Prime This is fine to add over night to allow it to work , however I generally add it immediately to the water in a bucket to add or in increments while filling via a hose.
Carl
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Post by Suzie Q (Lori) on Nov 18, 2008 11:34:27 GMT -5
Just a suggestion....(Carl what do you think?)
Take the same amount of water out of the tank and test both exactly the same...if the Tap goes up but the tank water stays the same...maybe something in/on the tank?
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Post by Carl on Nov 18, 2008 12:32:17 GMT -5
Just a suggestion....(Carl what do you think?) Take the same amount of water out of the tank and test both exactly the same...if the Tap goes up but the tank water stays the same...maybe something in/on the tank? Good idea Carl
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Post by cashay on Nov 18, 2008 14:22:47 GMT -5
I did this before remember, I tested my water straight out of the tap, Carl you told me to do get some water and let it sit for about an hour to get the gas out of it, and everything seemed perfect except KH was 40 and could have been a little better, the ph,, wait let me see if I can find this... BRB
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Post by cashay on Nov 18, 2008 14:27:24 GMT -5
Here it is from about a month ago
ok this is a wow... I checked my tap water and the water parameters are Nitrate 20 Nitrite 0 GH 75 soft (which I read Tetra's like KH 40 PH 6.8 That is pretty much what the test read any way except for the KH.... hmmmm maybe the test aren't working...... Im going to test the PH again with a totaly different test.. hold on PH from tap water is 7.2 ok now I know they are wrong! crap
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Post by cashay on Nov 18, 2008 14:31:26 GMT -5
and then I took some of my tank water to the LFS and had them test it for me, thats when i found out mine were correct because they were reading the same thing I was with there testers.... So why the buffer is not bringing this up is beyond me,, i even read other where I said i did use the buffer and it still didn't change, i run out of buffer last night used my last two capfuls, so i am getting some on the way home... I don't know guys....
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Post by Carl on Nov 18, 2008 14:50:32 GMT -5
Yes, I remember this test, however this is a diferent test to try and find out why the buffer is not bringing up the KH (& to see if we need to look into even more factors)
I like Suzie-Qs alteration of my test, & I would recommend giving this a try when you have the time.
Carl
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Post by cashay on Nov 18, 2008 16:19:33 GMT -5
Ok will do this when I get home this evening...
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Post by cashay on Nov 18, 2008 18:19:02 GMT -5
ok it has to be in the sponge filter, being that is all that is in there besides heaters.. new parameters [glow=red,2,300]Tap only- Tap with Buffer - TANK [/glow] Nitrate- 20 - 20 - 20 Nitrite- 0 - 0 - 0 GH- 75 - 300 - 300 KH- 80- 120 - 0 PH- 6.2 - 8.3 - 0
Looks like something in tank is killing the KH and PH but what? have two heaters and the two filters, thats it. and water
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Post by cashay on Nov 18, 2008 20:14:21 GMT -5
Ok that is my water parameters three different ways. looks like the tap water with just the buffer is best, But when I changed out the water to be almost just all tap water then added buffer only, same thing! LOW KH and low PH in tank, I took out the sponge filter and rinsed in the dirty water, and also took out the hose and found some nasty stuff stuck in it so I cleaned it real good, and changed out the bio bag in whisper... still the same as before,... seems like the more water the less good water parameters... hmmmm I am just going to add buffer everyday until it raises and see what happens, seems like the more stuff I add like the salt, the prime, the buffer it ends up lowering kh and ph?
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Post by Carl on Nov 18, 2008 20:53:07 GMT -5
Your last tank pH number must be incorrect as you cannot possibly have a pH of 0.
Your filters are quite basic, but make sure they are well rinsed with de-chlorinated water. In the case of the Whisper, tank it all the way apart and clean it, including the motor and impeller well.
Look around for contaminants that could be getting in the water, although I think this is "reaching for straws".
I would also increase (slowly that is) your buffer doses until it stabilizes, this has been a problem for me in marine tanks on a few rare occasions, but never FW.
Carl
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Post by cashay on Nov 19, 2008 7:24:59 GMT -5
I don't think it was 0 but it wasn't even registering on the test strip or on the liquid Ph tester so I just said 0 my strips stop at 6 so anything below that is a guess. I checked it again this morning, and same results.....(im shrugging shoulders at this point) The whisper filter is still kinda knew, It came with the tank when I bought it a month or so ago, I dont know if I can take it apart with out breaking it... gheezzz is this going to get any easier? taking care of fish that is? Two still have pop eye, waiting on that MB to get here..... Melafix worked to a point but I think they are ammuned to it now....
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Post by Carl on Nov 19, 2008 10:27:18 GMT -5
The most important course of action at this point is to continue to add the buffer in small doses until your KH stabilizes.
This is possible, as in water chemistry there is a point where the KH WILL excede the acid production in your tank and will stabilize (as I noted on my last post in this thread , this can be a problem in Marine tanks, and believe me this is vastly more difficult to acheive in marine tanks with this problem, yet success is possible).
You will likely want to make the addition of buffer part of your new water when making water changes.
Carl
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Post by cashay on Nov 19, 2008 12:19:49 GMT -5
Ok will keep adding some everyday until I get the KH up, There isn't such a thing as too much is there? I mean yeah all at once could hurt them but I mean if I end up having to add this everyday for a month or more, or just to keep this to a good level will it end up hurting the fish? And one more question... If none of the fish were sick, when I got them How did they get pop eye? Is it because everything is so low in the tank? or has this diease just set dormat for a long while and one actually was exposed to it in the beginning? ?
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Post by Carl on Nov 19, 2008 14:09:44 GMT -5
Ok will keep adding some everyday until I get the KH up, There isn't such a thing as too much is there? I mean yeah all at once could hurt them but I mean if I end up having to add this everyday for a month or more, or just to keep this to a good level will it end up hurting the fish? And one more question... If none of the fish were sick, when I got them How did they get pop eye? Is it because everything is so low in the tank? or has this disease just set dormat for a long while and one actually was exposed to it in the beginning? ? Yes there is such a thing as too much KH in FW, that is why you want to do this incrementally until you find the "sweet spot" (which includes how much buffer to add to water prior to adding to your tank during water changes) Basically shoot for a KH of 50-100 for your aquarium. If you go past this number, I would not stress, just do not maintain a KH of say 300 for your types of fish. Pop Eye is often caused by Aeromonas and similar anaerobic bacteria. These bacteria are more common in areas of organic decomposition and I have seen this MANY times (when called out in my maintenance business) when pH and KH stability is a problem. The question here is not how you got these infections, rather more of why this KH/pH problem is persisting. Once you get enough buffer/KH you can also balance this with products such as Bio Lif which will tend to soften water and balance out buffers. Unrefined Almond Leaves (as found in Bio Lif) have the added benefit of lowering Aeromonas Bacteria in your tank. Carl
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Post by cashay on Nov 19, 2008 14:35:30 GMT -5
And bringing up the Ph with the marine buffer will bring up the KH? Because when i look at the bottle it says will being PH up to 8.3
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