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Post by seadragon on Sept 5, 2017 14:57:30 GMT -5
First off, new to the forum so apologies if this topic has been covered to bits...
I'm treating a betta for what I decided was mild columnaris (she had a thin veil of grey/white in a small patch on the back and a subtle haze of the same along one side... a teensy bit of matter). She's winding up treatment per AAP (Furan 2 + Kanamycin and salt, also MB baths) and it looks better but not completely so I'd be interested in suggestions for next steps. (she's in a 5g QT tank-non-cycled, so will have fully fresh water tomorrow).
Also, what do I need to do to her home tank to make it safe again? It's a planted tank also with plants on driftwood.
Thanks!
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Post by Carl on Sept 6, 2017 9:29:25 GMT -5
Welcome to Everything Aquatic! Often complete healing lags treatment by weeks. If no infection is present after treatment is fully complete, the best treatment is optimum water conditions (maybe a follow up Medicated Wonder Shell). Make sure all parameters are perfect including mineral Cations and that there are no stressors (with Bettas this can also mean sudden temperature changes as many keep Bettas in tanks without heaters) These articles might help with what I would define as optimum water conditions www.fishbeginner.info/home/what-makes-a-healthy-aquarium-or-unhealthy/www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Disease.htmlCarl
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Post by seadragon on Sept 6, 2017 10:54:36 GMT -5
Thanks Carl. She's not better, there's still patchy areas of this thin grey/white coating with bits of white tufts. Re: temperature changes... She was at a constant 78º. The only change was to gradually lower her to 75º for the treatment. I'm familiar with these articles and am going to order some wonder shells from you today (both types). In the meantime, would Seachem MINERALIZE & CARBONATE be helpful with the cations? Wondering if I should be repeating the whole treatment (Furan 2 says you can repeat but concerned about Kanamycin - resistance etc.) OR should I wait a while then move to something like Fungus Cure....or? Right now she's back in fresh water with 1 tbsp salt/5 gal, and IAL. I think I need wonder shells to maintain levels in a mystery snail breeding tank too..but will post separately in that section. Thanks again
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Sept 6, 2017 12:16:05 GMT -5
Welcome! Columnaris is stress induced. It could be osmoregulation stress from poor mineralization, poor quality food, too strong flow, temp swing, etc or a combination along with poor immunity from the lack of the electrotypes from the minerals and food. If there was no improvement from the first treatment, I would consider a different treatment. I would follow the treatment from the article, including baths. www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html
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Post by Carl on Sept 7, 2017 9:05:22 GMT -5
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Post by seadragon on Sept 20, 2017 15:00:47 GMT -5
Thanks for your reply, Carl. Thanks for the info on MINERALIZE, I was curious about that. To be clear, I also used CARBONATE and have used REPLENISH. Not that I see these as the idea solution; they're what I had when I had to act. Still planning to get the wonder shells for steady, constant good conditions and will ask about for my snail breeder tanks separately.. those levels dive daily!
I've not been able to get here for a bit.. sorry, was a bit confused by previous advice for me to use 'treatment from the article' as I thought I had (QT tank, 1 tbsp salt, Furan2 + Kana, + 2x daily MB baths with that water) and didn't see info re a different or followup treatment...
ANYWAY... I had to continue...
Following treatment,I had her back in clean water with 1 tbsp/5g salt + IAL.
The next day she had cottony matter streaming off her fins.
I gave her the full course of treatment with FUNGUS CURE and it all cleared up.
(still had hints of the initial patchy haze of grey/white)
I put her again back to clean water, this time no salt, but added PIMAFIX for 7 days as a tonic thinking just she needed clean water and time for full recovery...
Day 8 the haze seemed improved and she really looked pretty good...I was about to do a water change...
...when I noticed BOTH EYES HAVE A CLOUDY (QUITE DENSE WHITE) AREA ON THEM. (she can see).
I was afraid not to act quickly and so started her on just FURAN2, but she's had 2 doses now with no improvement.
I have searched the net.. and your site.. and haven't found anything much on this aspect...
Hoping you can advise me on this? Other than this now, she seems good!
Thanks so much
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Post by Carl on Sept 21, 2017 8:55:48 GMT -5
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Post by seadragon on Sept 21, 2017 15:49:14 GMT -5
Here's a video that shows it better than the pics I got.
Please see if you can also see oh her upper back area, bits of white residue still in the depressions of the scales (that was the initial issue).
Is there a chance the eyes are something innocent from all the meds and just needs time to clear up?
Thanks Carl
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Post by Carl on Sept 21, 2017 17:23:25 GMT -5
The video helps a lot as it shows a very active otherwise healthy fish. While this still may well be a Streptococcus infection of the eye, it does have a good likelyhood of resulting from past issues. I woud certainly maintain the best water parameters possible, laid out here: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Disease.htmlIf no change is noted, a swab with Merbromin on an in tank treatment with Doxycycline might be in order Carl
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Post by seadragon on Sept 21, 2017 18:45:12 GMT -5
Your help is much appreciated Carl, I got her this far but the eye thing had me stumped. If you come across this and have a second to view my video again, I'd love to know what you make of the white-ish matter just in the recesses of the scales on her back. The video gives a glimpse, sorry it's not better but it's hard to see at any time. This goes back to the initial issue where this area had an irregular patch of greyish white haze with this only more so. I'm very familiar with many of your articles.. actually steer ppl here all the time.. but I'll reread this and search out these meds.
Many thanks
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Post by Carl on Sept 22, 2017 9:45:13 GMT -5
Your help is much appreciated Carl, I got her this far but the eye thing had me stumped. If you come across this and have a second to view my video again, I'd love to know what you make of the white-ish matter just in the recesses of the scales on her back. The video gives a glimpse, sorry it's not better but it's hard to see at any time. This goes back to the initial issue where this area had an irregular patch of greyish white haze with this only more so. I'm very familiar with many of your articles.. actually steer ppl here all the time.. but I'll reread this and search out these meds. Many thanks This whitish matter as well as some minor infection on the edges of his pectoral fins appears to be bacterial, most likely Columnaris. A dye using a Methylene Swab might prove further if superficial or deeper past the slime coat (if it dyes even slightly blue, there is some penetration) Carl
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Post by seadragon on Sept 25, 2017 15:27:14 GMT -5
I hadn't yet taken any action re: the eye situation when you wrote that you feel it's persistent columnaris on her back and pectoral fins.. Ao she's in clean water waiting... Sorry but I'm unclear as to a couple things: 1) regarding her eyes, you said it 'could' be Streptococcus, but also has a likelihood of 'resulting from past issues'.. MEANING RATHER IT COULD BE THE COLUMNARIS? (to be clear, the cloudy eyes did not appear till after the furan2+ kanaplex, plus the fungus cure treatments) 2) I understand if a Meth. Blue swab stains blue (would you even be able to see that given her colouring).. I don't understand how that would affect the treatment given? I was about to order doxyciline (Fin&BodyCure) but IF you think the eyes could be due to the columnaris and also given you've now id'd her back/fins with it... should I be instead repeating the furan2+kanaplex treatment? ... OR...? Sorry to have to ask for clarification, I just feel this girl has been through a lot of meds already so I'm cautious andI want to be sure I'm progressing the best way for her. Thanks again
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Post by Carl on Sept 26, 2017 10:01:02 GMT -5
By past issues, I mean that often the fish' eyes will be the last to heal or simply show general weakness in a fish. This sometimes means just improving the fish health (of whatever the cause) will sometimes be all that is needed to clear the eyes. This would not apply to a major eye infection, not just a more cataract looking eye as in your fish. StressGuard might be a good product to use too for just this reason Resource: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Seachem.html#stressguardReference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Disease.html#onhandtreatmentsMethylene Blue stains any area where the slime coat is weak or gone due to infection or injury I personally do not like going back to the same medication or combination there of to prevent resistance. For this reason, even though not as strong for Columnaris, but do to its eye infection abilities, I would suggest Doxycycline Carl
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Post by seadragon on Sept 26, 2017 12:30:41 GMT -5
Thanks for the rationale regarding switching to a different treatment.
While waiting to hear back, I have started daily doses of MELAFIX, having read in your articles about it in relation to eye infections.. I figured it might help and couldn't hurt. One dose so far, no change.
Q: Do I need to remove her wonder shell prior to using Doxycycline or any tetracycline .. because isn't there calcium in the w.s. and Doxycycline is a tetracycline?
Actually another problem has cropped up. I'm not able to get the Fin & Body Cure. I'm in Canada and while I'd heard the government would be moving towards banning all fish meds beyond natural substances, it seems API has recalled ALL inventory from stores. I have access to Seachem, and of course have the kanaplex & furan-2 I used as the first course of treatment.
Stress Guard seems non-existent here but I gather I can order this from you at least.
Concerned about the time factor...
So I'm at a loss as to what I can do.......?
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Post by Carl on Sept 27, 2017 9:54:08 GMT -5
I would simply use a 1/4 to 1/2 dose of Wonder Shell while fractionally increasing Doxycycline
As for obtaining both StressGuard & Doxycycline in Canada, we ship these product there all the time. The down side is while shipping coming from Canada is not too expensive, it is much more coming from the USA
Carl
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Post by seadragon on Sept 27, 2017 10:13:51 GMT -5
I would simply use a 1/4 to 1/2 dose of Wonder Shell while fractionally increasing Doxycycline Carl Sorry, but does this mean to give a higher than regular dose of Doxycyline? i.e. with a 1/4 dose of wonder shell, give a 1.25 dose of Doxycycline .. and with a ½ dose wonder shell a 1.5 dose of Doxycycline?
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Post by Carl on Sept 27, 2017 10:45:13 GMT -5
No quite. The percentages would not correspond. I would only increase the Doxycycline about 10% (this is not an exact science here, which is also why this was a good question to ask ) Carl
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Post by seadragon on Sept 27, 2017 20:36:44 GMT -5
Ok, thanks!
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Post by seadragon on Jan 29, 2018 12:53:36 GMT -5
UPDATE 4 MONTHS LATER: I was able to beg some Stress Guard from a friend and felt I should give this but otherwise 'wait and see' for a bit as the symptoms didn't seem to be urgent and this girl had been through a lot already. We got lucky, within a few weeks her eyes cleared up and she's been fine since. Thanks for all your help, guys.. great info and great to have for another time. Happy ending, cheers
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Jan 29, 2018 13:46:38 GMT -5
Great news!
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