UV Sterilizer for 250 - 300 gallon aquarium

[keightley]

How do I get level 2 sterlization for a 250 - 300 gallon aquarium?  If I understand AAP website I would need at the minimum a high dwell time 62.5 to 75 watt bulb UV sterilizer.  This is completely out of my price range.  The Smart High Output UV 80 Watt - Pentair Aquatics costs $700.  Is there a way to get level 2 sterilization at a more cost effect price on a 250 - 300 gallon aquarium system?

Keightley

[Carl]

Apr 12, 2017 17:22:03 GMT -5 keightley said:

How do I get level 2 sterlization for a 250 - 300 gallon aquarium?  If I understand AAP website I would need at the minimum a high dwell time 62.5 to 75 watt bulb UV sterilizer.  This is completely out of my price range.  The Smart High Output UV 80 Watt - Pentair Aquatics costs $700.  Is there a way to get level 2 sterilization at a more cost effect price on a 250 - 300 gallon aquarium system?

Keightley

I would not recommend the Pentair UV anyway, these are over priced for their effectiveness


Please Read:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumUVSterilization.html

Level one is what is most important, but my suggestion would be a system as per the article cited above that includes TWO AAP/TMC Vecton 25 watt UV Sterilizers maybe even THREE).
With this you can achieve numbers either very close or within level two Sterilization and at a much lower price

Carl

[keightley]

I did read your page about UV Sterilization and honestly... I can be pretty dense sometimes! So let me just check if I understand what I have read. If I install to Vecton 25 watt UV Sterilizers in line one after another, it is like installing one 50 watt UV Sterilizer. If I installed three, it is like installing one 75 watt UV sterilizer. Am I correct or partially correct?

I did find a UV sterilizer that is 55 watts for $310. It is the UltraKlear UV Clarifier/Sterilizer. It is 43" long. It claims it uses a technologically-advanced T5 high output UVC bulb, making it more efficient than traditional UV clarifiers. They also claims that it has a swirl sleeve that helps direct the water around the UV bulb, creating more contact time and increasing UV efficiency up to 50% over traditional UV clarifiers. Here is the kicker. It is made for 5000+ gallons ponds. It has a maximum flow rate of 1500 GPH.

Please forgive me, Gary. I know that you would rather promote your own products than others. But from my prospective, I rather just install one device than two on the back of my aquarium if I can get the level 2 sterilization that I am after. It will make the back of the tank look cleaner and uncluttered. With that said, I wonder if had a way slower flow rate than 1500 GPH, say 660GPH, theoretically I would get level 2 sterilization, right? If this UV sterilizer is a category A UV, x/55watts=12GPH per watt for Level 2 sterilization, x=660GPH. For an aquarium with 250 to 300 gallons there would be a turnover rate of 2.64 to 2.2 times an hour. If I had a water turnover rate of 3 time per hour, doing the math there would be 13.6GPH per watt.

Would that give me level 2 sterilization? Please, please Gary (or anyone else for that matter who understands this better than I) correct me if I am wrong.

Keightley

[devonjohnsgard]

Apr 13, 2017 10:52:44 GMT -5 keightley said:

I did read your page about UV Sterilization and honestly... I can be pretty dense sometimes! So let me just check if I understand what I have read. If I install to Vecton 25 watt UV Sterilizers in line one after another, it is like installing one 50 watt UV Sterilizer. If I installed three, it is like installing one 75 watt UV sterilizer. Am I correct or partially correct?

I did find a UV sterilizer that is 55 watts for $310. It is the UltraKlear UV Clarifier/Sterilizer. It is 43" long. It claims it uses a technologically-advanced T5 high output UVC bulb, making it more efficient than traditional UV clarifiers. They also claims that it has a swirl sleeve that helps direct the water around the UV bulb, creating more contact time and increasing UV efficiency up to 50% over traditional UV clarifiers. Here is the kicker. It is made for 5000+ gallons ponds. It has a maximum flow rate of 1500 GPH.

Please forgive me, Gary. I know that you would rather promote your own products than others. But from my prospective, I rather just install one device than two on the back of my aquarium if I can get the level 2 sterilization that I am after. It will make the back of the tank look cleaner and uncluttered. With that said, I wonder if had a way slower flow rate than 1500 GPH, say 660GPH, theoretically I would get level 2 sterilization, right? If this UV sterilizer is a category A UV, x/55watts=12GPH per watt for Level 2 sterilization, x=660GPH. For an aquarium with 250 to 300 gallons there would be a turnover rate of 2.64 to 2.2 times an hour. If I had a water turnover rate of 3 time per hour, doing the math there would be 13.6GPH per watt.

Would that give me level 2 sterilization? Please, please Gary (or anyone else for that matter who understands this better than I) correct me if I am wrong.

Keightley

Keightley,

Know that sterilizer Carl is promoting is the best anywhere, considering price and effectiveness.

Also know, I would only suggest level one for this type of set-up, really no need for more, unless your just wanting it.

The two sterilizer are not as good as you think... why....? The size of the chamber... it's wider... Meaning the contact for most of the water that enters the sterilizer is not as close to the bulb, making the sterilization less. Even slowing the flow wont help as turn over of the aquarium has to be factored into the way you get sterilization (and not just clarification). The water needs to travel through the sterilizer multiple times...and still most of the water is not close to the bulb.

So Carl isn't just promoting his product. He's giving you some very wise advice (which is why he has the most indepth sterilizer article online). He's experience/tests proved wider chamber sterilizer are not as effective. The TMC line have a very narrow chamber.

In other words. Two 25 Watt Vetcons (50 watts)$359.98 will give you much more sterilizing power than that 55 watt.... You may not even get level one with this... so 25 watts would bet 55 watts.

Carl is kinda a sterilizer master (he even helps companies like Disney with UV)

[devonjohnsgard]

I'll also say a T5 is not as good as a T8 as the T8 is longer (even when the T5 is more "effective" watt per watt"), providing longer dwell time. Dwell time bets out effectiveness. T5, plus wide chamber equal poor effectiveness.

Not as great as the marketing for the sterilizer is claiming.

All marketing.

[Carl]

My recommendations and what I sell are based on decades of experience, multiple products use, and much experimentation

As noted a T5 lamp actually provides lower dwell time

QUOTE:
"Comparison of UVC Dwell Time Between T5 & T8 UV Bulb:

In the previous test, the Vecton 8 Watt utilizes a T5 UV Bulb, but what about the common T8 UV Bulbs used in many larger UV Sterilizers versus a T5 of similar size?
This is a good question, yet also has some misunderstandings too (that I too have made).

While T5 lamps are roughly 16% more efficient at converting electrical energy into light energy, this does not necessarily make the T5 the better lamp as some have stated.
Given two lamps of equal length, equal UVC light output, and equal flow rates, then the dwell time will be the same, and the germicidal effectiveness will be practically indistinguishable, regardless of the number of electrical watts pumped into each one.
As an analogy it is like saying that if my car goes 140 mph with a 200 hp engine, and 160 mph with a 300 hp engine, then a 300 hp HYBRID engine (using 16% less gas) will make my car go 180 mph (as per the logic of using a T5 over a T8 UV lamp).

Also, if the manufacturer uses a 5/8" diameter T5 instead of a 1" diameter T8, and reduces the tube sleeve diameter by 3/8" (compared to a T8 fixture), and then reduces the reaction chamber diameter by 3/8" (to stay within 3cm of the tube sleeve); in that case, the T5 fixture will have a smaller cross section area, which will REDUCE the dwell time for any given volume flow rate.

As an example, a 57 watt T5 as used in the Aqua 114 watt UV is 17.5 inches long (two lamps are used), while the 50 watt T8 UV bulb used in the TMC 110 is 36 inches long (two lamps are used).
Next we factor in the higher energy input (57 versus 50 watts), we would presumably have 12% more raw output of UVC energy.
But next we have to figure an exposure time that is spread over twice the length of bulb and this is 100% more dwell time. So 100 minus 12 and we get 88% more effective for the TMC 110 over the Aqua 114 UV!!!"

From:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/UVSterilizerDwellTime.html

As well the "swirl" is a gimmick that does not help and in fact lowers effectiveness (this is noted in the article too)

Please read these too:
www.uvsterilizerreview.com/2015/12/aquarium-pond-uv-sterilizer-history.html
www.uvsterilizerreview.com/2007/09/uv-sterilizers-truths.html

Carl

[keightley]

Trust me... I am not judging Gary (oops.. Carl) for promoting his own products on his own discussion board. If he didn't suggest his products first I would think that is a bit strange and email him directly like crazy asking him these questions but only specifically towards his own products. He is motivated by business and economics. So am I. I want to accomplish what I want at the lowest price possible. I just wanted to acknowledge his motivation as well as mine before I spoke about a UV sterilizer that he does not sell.  Guess the comment backfired.   

Now you all might be scratching your heads as too why I would want level 2 sterilization. I understand that it may be overkill as Gary's (oops.. Carl's) experiments have only shown a 15-20% improvement over level 1 sterilization. (See... I did read the webpage LOL) When my small beautiful fancy goldfish grow into big beautiful fancy goldfish and start dying because of a parasite that I could have prevented with level 2 sterilization, I will be extremely upset. Big beautiful 6" fancy goldfish are selling for $250 to $300. If I just prevent 3 goldfish from dying of a parasite that level 2 sterilization can prevent, even an overpriced Pentair UV would seem to be in my best interest. But I am constrained by a stupid thing called a budget.

The other reason why I am asking these questions is because I am a geeky math nerd who likes to understand things. I didn't spend four years of college getting a math minor just because I had to. It was because I enjoyed math. I really should have become an engineer.  Instead I do something else.

That all said... purchasing three 25 watt Vecton UV sterilizers to guarentee level 2 sterilization for my 300 gallon aquaponics system will cost me $540. Ouch! It is better than the Pentair UV but still! So what if I buy/install the TMC Vecton 110 watt Professional Pond/Aquarium sterilizer for $399.99? This will give me level 2 sterilization for sure, right? I mean, really! If I purchase two Vecton 25 watt I would only save $40 and it is debatable whether or not I am truly getting level 2 sterilization, right? 

If anyone here on the board wants to criticize my thought process, please feel free to do so. I welcome it. I am encouraging it. No. I am begging for it... pretty pretty please with cherry on top! Just make sure you don't forget the cherry on top (in other words a little kindness). 

Keightley

[devonjohnsgard]

First thing I'll criticize kindly.... his name is CARL.

moving on...

I don't think you truly understood my points.

Next. You're assuming you'd get level two with the Pentair. I told you the reasons you're not.

50 watts of TMC will be vastly better than 55 watts of Pentair.

And still... 2 Vectons 25 watts will give you a very high level 1 sterilization. Close to level two. Like a 1.85 level... That's extreme parasite control. Level one is parasite control.

You could get the 110 watt...but one that's a huge system for your size tank, and again it has larger chamber for more flow... as in 110 watts of Vecton would be better than 110 watts pro UV.

Carl is trying to get you a better product and not because he's making a sale, but because it truly is a better product mathematically and scientifically.

[keightley]

Gary... I mean Carl ... feel free to slap me around a bit for getting your name wrong. It was rude of me. This is not a defense by any means but I can be quite the space case especially when I am multitasking. I am at work.  I apologize.  Please forgive me.

Back to my issue at hand.  I guess I should have included the words (even if it did do Level 2) when refering to the Pentair.  I was just trying to make a point regard the cost.

So if you were growing out 10 to 18 $300 fish (not that I would sell my beauties), which would you (or anyone else for that matter) do? Buy two Vecton 25 watt UV sterilizers and connect them or one Vecton 110 watt pro. The Vecton 110 watt pro I would install in the back of the aquarium on its side where no one can see yet gives me easy access to maintain it. Even if I don't go with the Pro UV, I am higher a professional plumber to help me put the filtration system together.

Maybe there is even a better solution that I am not seeing?

Keightley

[Carl]

Apr 13, 2017 14:33:29 GMT -5 keightley said:

Gary... I mean Carl ... feel free to slap me around a bit for getting your name wrong. It was rude of me. This is not a defense by any means but I can be quite the space case especially when I am multitasking. I am at work.  I apologize.  Please forgive me.

Back to my issue at hand.  I guess I should have included the words (even if it did do Level 2) when refering to the Pentair.  I was just trying to make a point regard the cost.

So if you were growing out 10 to 18 $300 fish (not that I would sell my beauties), which would you (or anyone else for that matter) do? Buy two Vecton 25 watt UV sterilizers and connect them or one Vecton 110 watt pro. The Vecton 110 watt pro I would install in the back of the aquarium on its side where no one can see yet gives me easy access to maintain it. Even if I don't go with the Pro UV, I am higher a professional plumber to help me put the filtration system together.

Maybe there is even a better solution that I am not seeing?

Keightley

You can certainly use the 110 PRO, it is simply a very large UV meant more for systems or ponds, but if you have the ability to plumb this "thing" and aesthetically hide it, by all mean this UV will well out perform either previously mentioned UV Sterilizers

Carl

[devonjohnsgard]

If it were me... that's a great question. I also have to consider budget, so I get all your points.

and knowing what I know.

I would go with two vectons as their easier to plumb for an aquarium, much more easily hidden. And it's a HUGE step in the right direction as in your way ahead than most people by having the high level of sterilization. Most don't even have any UV.

That said, I would (as importantly) make sure your using reducing minerals (electrolytes- cal, mag, potassium), as they are just as effective or if not even more effective (more effective in the rate they work, faster than UV) along with the UV. PLUS provide the highest quality diet possible (also considering your indirectly eating what their eating if your growing your own food, junk food is more oxidizing and more harmful to the fish organs)... All these, including oxygen keep immunity boosted in fish, which is going to protect them, along with the UV zapping the disease.

So, UV is just one part of the puzzle. All these make best disease prevention for your lovely fish.

[keightley]

You all are smart. I just received an email from the makers of the UltraKlear UV. This is what they said:

"I received some feedback from our Products Department & for level 2 exposure time you would need to have 8-12 gallons per hour per watt of the light going through the unit. You would also need to turn the water over 4 times an hour. Unfortunately our clarifiers will not work for your system as they will not handle the amount of flow necessary to turn over 4 times an hour."

Glad they cleared that up!

So if I go with two 25 watt Vectons and a pond canister filter, what external water pump would I go with? Remember that I will be splitting the water line. One side will go to the grow bed and the other to the canister filter.

If I decided to go all out and get the 110 watt Vecton Pro and a pond canister filter, what external water pump would I go with?

Is there an external water pump that would work with both options?

Keightley

[devonjohnsgard]

Apr 13, 2017 16:12:34 GMT -5 keightley said:

You all are smart. I just received an email from the makers of the UltraKlear UV. This is what they said:

"I received some feedback from our Products Department & for level 2 exposure time you would need to have 8-12 gallons per hour per watt of the light going through the unit. You would also need to turn the water over 4 times an hour. Unfortunately our clarifiers will not work for your system as they will not handle the amount of flow necessary to turn over 4 times an hour."

Glad they cleared that up!

So if I go with two 25 watt Vectons and a pond canister filter, what external water pump would I go with? Remember that I will be splitting the water line. One side will go to the grow bed and the other to the canister filter.

If I decided to go all out and get the 110 watt Vecton Pro and a pond canister filter, what external water pump would I go with?

Is there an external water pump that would work with both options?

Keightley

I don't think you need that much turn over, but its nice to have a confirmation.

You'd want 500-600 gph going through two 25 watts... Since we're diverting and considering head pressure, I would go with something like a Rio 20 HF... Could also use it for the 110, as you would want about 1100 gals going through it. Don't know how much flow need to grow through the grow bed. Might want the Rio 26HF

Here's the specs:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PumpSpecifications.html#specifications

[keightley]

How much GPH need to flow through the 110 watt vecton Pro for level 2 sterilization?

I looked at some reviews of the Rio 26HF. A lot of people stated it was noisy. Remember that this set up is in an apartment in my living room. I prefer a quiet pump to a noisy pump. I have been looking at the Danner Mag-Drive Supreme Pumps. There are a few reviews that I read where people stated it was noisy but for the most part people thought it ran pretty silent. Below is the flow chart vs pumping height (ft).




Mag 5 thru 7 - 1/2" MPT & FPT
Mag 9.5 thru 18 - 3/4" MPT & FPT
Mag 34 & 36 - 1" MPT & FPT

Now I don't know what MPT & FPT mean.  But I think this is the size of the intake and return.  I can imagine them using hosing bigger than the MPT & FPT to arrive at their flow chart vs pumping height table.



If you chose one of these pumps, which one would you choose?

Keightley

[Carl]

I think you need to read this:
www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/12/power-head-review.html

Carl

[Carl]

Apr 13, 2017 13:15:46 GMT -5 keightley said:

Trust me... I am not judging Gary (oops.. Carl) for promoting his own products on his own discussion board. If he didn't suggest his products first I would think that is a bit strange and email him directly like crazy asking him these questions but only specifically towards his own products. He is motivated by business and economics. So am I. I want to accomplish what I want at the lowest price possible. I just wanted to acknowledge his motivation as well as mine before I spoke about a UV sterilizer that he does not sell.  Guess the comment backfired.

I also need to correct how I come to sell what I do.

I have run a large aquarium maintenance company for decades whereby I experimented with many UVs, pumps, filter, methods, etc. The economic incentive was not as you are assuming, rather that I could maintain contract with as few "special" visits including replacing equipment, dealing with problem equipment, etc. as possible. My financial incentive was to do it right the first time since my work was guaranteed, so selling crap products and using methods that allowed fish to die, was not in my best interest (and of course my client's either).
The incentive was NOT to sell the products my distributor gave me the best deal on (which is what is more common with others).

Here is a QUOTE from my UV Sterilization article dealing with just this type of reasoning:
"EDITORIAL/COMMENTS

By using low end equipment such as "Killing Machines" that might ONLY clear the water and then claiming these did nothing to protect the health of their fish is NOT a scientific argument against these devices.

As well despite these long term observable and researched facts, many still will deny these benefits other than clarification.
This problem of denying facts while often making "Ad Hominem" attacks such as claiming articles like this are "based on selling this equipment" is unfortunately still quite common, often in anecdotal or poorly moderated, "cut & paste information" forums that are unfortunately quite popular.

Such "Ad Hominem" attacks are akin this example;
PERSON 1: “I think Volvos are fine automobiles.”
PERSON 2: “Of course you’d say that; you’re from Sweden.”
Reference: Logical Fallacies

What is also noteworthy throughout this article is I DO provide references, and yes a lot of information is based on my own vast experience and experiments.
My goal with my large aquarium/pond maintenance company was to be more profitable by cutting back on disease incidence, water clarity issues and more, as most of my clients were under a contract that included replacement of livestock. So in the end if you were to "follow the money", my financial incentive was NOT to sell UVs, rather to to put together a system that worked and which included far more than UV sterilizers, such as quarantine, feeding, water parameters, etc.
So for those rude individuals who use "appeal to authority" logical fallacies and call this article "hand wavy", fine, but for those who have more respect for other's decades of work and experience as well as continued ongoing research, I am simply reporting on my findings, both researched and anecdotal (but anecdotal based on 1000s of aquariums).

As a reader, please follow the references cited, please also apply common sense logic too, as many of the concepts applied in this article do NOT require parking one's brain.
For the critics of what products are promoted, of course I promote products, as I run a business.
HOWEVER, I have professional experience dating back to 1978 (longer in the hobby), and I have used and experimented with most well known brands with literally over 1000 applications. This includes the Aquanetics UV, Aqua UV, Lifeguard, Tetra UV Turbo Twist UV, Laguna UV, Emperor UV, and MANY others. In other words, for me to sell anything other than what I know to be the best would be dishonest!!"

Reference:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumUVSterilization.html#editorial

Carl

[devonjohnsgard]

I did say how much flow you needed for the 110...

The rio isn't loud...

I wouldn't choose one of those pumps if I had a choice. The recommendations be given to you are based on using all these products on 1000s of aquariums. I stand by the Rio recommendation.