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Post by Carl on Nov 12, 2008 11:33:57 GMT -5
I still don't know what this is but he seems to be doing better today, not breathing so hard. They actually ate this morning too, so I thought that was a good sign. I gave both of them an MB bath last night (even though the 1 seems totally fine) and did a water change and put melafix in so we will see. Thanks for the help guys!!! Good to read! ;D Did you see any "flashing" or other signs of gill parasites? Excellent point as to what MB can and cannot do and temps as well. IF this is from ammonia/nitrite poisoning, the MB will allow for better oxygen absorption and in the case of nitrites in the blood doe aid in "brown blood syndrome", however MB cannot reverse kidney, liver or gill damage. The Melafix you are using is helpful in healing of gill tissue (although this too rarely heals 100% if the cause is from ammonia/nitrites) As to your source of fish, before we blame your store, it is possible that her source may have had "handling issues" and even if this source for your store is usually responsible, mistakes happen. I have had good shippers set fish aside or other mistakes that allow for ammonia/nitrite problems in shipping. The worst was about 20 years ago (& not really the shippers fault) when the plane from Singapore stopped in Tokyo during Christmas season and then "bumped" a box with my fish, leaving them outside waiting for the next available plane to LAX, needless to say, most fish were DOA and those that were not struggled to live. Carl
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Post by brenda on Nov 12, 2008 11:59:37 GMT -5
No, I don't see any flashing or anything. They just kind of hang out right now. These are shy fish so their behavior is not unusual. Is there anything that this could be that isn't bad? As far as the store goes...I really don't think it is from them. I have a feeling they just got these fish in and my feeling is this was something possibly at fault with the supplier. I hope he does continues to improve...As I said I was happy they both ate this morning. I know you guys may question why I kept the fish rather then taking him back to the store...The reason being the store is about 30 minutes away and it would've been closed and they only have a 24 hr return policy. So I just figured I would try to fix him and as I said the other one seems totalyy fine which also perplexes me. Why does one seem to have issue's but not the other?
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Post by bikeguy33 on Nov 12, 2008 12:11:33 GMT -5
some fish are often simply stronger than others. also one of them may have been shipped with fewer fish which would greatly lower ammo levels....
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Post by Carl on Nov 12, 2008 12:54:12 GMT -5
some fish are often simply stronger than others. also one of them may have been shipped with fewer fish which would greatly lower ammo levels.... Exactly! I commend you Brenda for trying to save this fish rather than returning him, I think his chances are better with you than a drive back. I usually did exactly the same thing when I received fish that has some issue or another. Since we are guessing, I think the guess of stress form ammonia/nitrite poisoning or similar shipping stresses are the likely cause IMO. Carl
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Post by brenda on Nov 16, 2008 11:50:08 GMT -5
Well, theyre getting less shy so I got a couple pics...I still don't know if you will be able to see what I am talking about. Maybe, it's just the way he is??? Is breathing is pretty normal now, other then he always has his mouth open..like I said maybe these are deformities, I don't know. The other one is not like this. Anyways, on the pics look also under his chin...he kind of has a bulge there and I know you can't see the gills real well but maybe a trained eye will see it. I guess he could be totally normal, I just know none of my other Calvus or Comps look like this.
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Post by Carl on Nov 16, 2008 15:40:21 GMT -5
He does not look totally normal IMO, HOWEVER this may be a deformity or he may have scar tissue in his gills (which I have seen before, but cannot tell from the pic). Either way his improvement tells me that he likely will be fine (this may be do to your extra effort earlier ) If the problem is do to scar tissue, he may never be 100% AND always be more shy knowing that he is not as strong as others, but this does not mean will cannot live a normal happy lifespan with the good care you provide. I do not see any reason to add any meds at this point, just continue with your normal care and at most maybe treat him with Melafix which is helpful in healing. Carl
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Post by brenda on Nov 16, 2008 18:07:44 GMT -5
Yeah, he seems fine now other then the way his gills look. I'll just keep a good watch on him still but he is doing good.
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Post by bikeguy33 on Nov 16, 2008 20:17:37 GMT -5
he is still a gorgeous fish....i feel these deformaties add extra character to an already personality filled fish.
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Post by brenda on Dec 8, 2008 21:49:47 GMT -5
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Post by bikeguy33 on Dec 9, 2008 0:34:43 GMT -5
i think it is probably just a birth defect.but if he is eating and acting like he should....i wouldn`t worry too much about it. that being said, i would try to discourage breeding him.
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Post by jonv on Dec 9, 2008 7:57:47 GMT -5
Could just be a deformed stripe also. I have seen things happen from time to time and not sure why this happens, but maybe 1 out of every 200-300 fry I get, there will be one that comes out a little different then the others. I've had one come out with one eye and that one eye looked a little blind to me, and another one that's had like an enlarged head, and that one is actually still alive. I'd have to think, it might be that the parents are too closely related, or it might be something about breeding in tanks, since even as well as we work on keeping our water good, it might be the higher levels of nitrogen compounds exposed to our fish, having some kind of effect on the quality of the genes. I'm just guessing on that part.
I agree with Bill though, since you see it now, and it's a little big to cull off, as long as he/she is not having problems living, maybe that's a fish you could isolate from breeding. I would think though, one good thing about Africans is they do tend to be selective in their own way about who they will breed with. I have a strong feeling that if this is a male, many females will probably try to avoid him. I'd worry more if this is a female.
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Post by brenda on Dec 9, 2008 8:55:31 GMT -5
He was like this when I bought him only at that time I wasn't sure he was going to make it. Now I think he'll do fine as he's very active and eating well. I don't have any plans on breeding these guys because I have a couple different ones and they will cross breed. So if they do happen to breed fry will not be removed from the big tank and would probably get eaten. If any were to survive they would either never leave my house or they would be culled because even if they are healthy chances are with the different morphs I have they would not be pure. I didn't get these guys for breeding, I got them because I absolutely love them.
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Post by kagome on Dec 9, 2008 13:08:08 GMT -5
I'm so glad that your fish is doing so well after his ordeal. I have a tendency to adopt and then fix up not so perfect animals that other people don't want because they are not perfect. I applaud you for making the extra effort to help this little guy live, it was very good of you.
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Post by 8 in the Corner on Dec 9, 2008 16:27:26 GMT -5
Looks like a short gill cover plate to me. It is a birth defect that will not hurt him in the long run. Just my opinion, though. John
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Post by jonv on Dec 9, 2008 23:14:17 GMT -5
Nice catch John, I saw that and it passed right over my head. I wouldn't have known what that is/was though until you said that. Great catch as always.
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