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Post by angelminx on Aug 2, 2016 16:35:26 GMT -5
This being summer, I was just wondering the other day if you know much about chillers--other than that they are expensive. For one thing, is it more cost effective to use a chiller, or to keep the air conditioning on "constantly" to keep room temps closer to 72 or 74 degrees (without the air on, my room temps tend to run ~82 degrees in the summer)? Is one type/brand (example: drop-in) better than another? Are they difficult to use/control? [And do the drop-in chillers have to go in a sump, or is it possible to place the coil directly in the aquarium?] This is something I've never seen any info on, other than a quick comment here or there.
I was wondering, because the other day I was thinking about fish like hillstream loaches, goldfish, and other fish, that really need cooler temps, and don't do well at the higher temps that are practically unavoidable in the summer months. Again, this is just a "wish I could" tank, since I can't set up any more tanks, but I always wanted to set up a cool-water stream tank, or something similar (another "wish I could" tank is one for temperate saltwater fish like the chain dogfish, or other catsharks, like you might find off the California coast).
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Post by Carl on Aug 2, 2016 18:42:41 GMT -5
There are two kinds I have used. In-line or drop-in/HOB. Both are are expensive and have relatively short lives (about 5 years, sometimes more, sometimes much less) Unless you have a building where air conditioning is not available, you are better off with just using an air conditioner or other cooling method. An example of one application I used one for was a marine aquarium at the top floor of an office tower in Los Angeles. This place was auto climate controlled and ALL air conditioning shut off for the weekend, so this floor in particular could get very hot on a summer weekend. I would recommend following these tips here in this section of my Freshwater Basics article: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Basic_Aquarium_Principles.html#heat_cool"Cooling; Sometimes cooling a tank in the warm summer months can be an issue, and most freshwater aquarists cannot afford an expensive chiller (which can cost $500 +). In many applications, even a an air conditioner is not a viable option.
A few suggestions include floating frozen 2 liter plastic pop bottles in the aquarium and/or the use of a wet towel draped over the tank with a fan aimed at this towel along with an open lid if viable depending upon fish kept (not viable for Arowanas for instance since they will jump out), this works similar to human perspiration. The wet towel/fan method is more efficient for larger aquariums and tends to have less temperature swings, however sometime the frozen bottle method is needed for quicker lowering of temperature; as well both methods can be combined. In fact the wet towel method was provided by an old timer in the hobby quite some time ago after I mentioned I was using fans with an open top and he stated that the use of a wet towel greatly increases the efficiency of the fan, especially if it is not viable to leave the top open.
I often had clients leave a wet towel & fan on their tank before leaving for work, then add a frozen bottle when they come home.
Other options can simply be to add a small room air conditioner and set it at a high setting of 78 F. This can often be cheaper than both the purchase and operating cost of an aquarium chiller in my experience."Carl
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rogierfvv
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3rd time around aquarium keeper, observer, learner
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Post by rogierfvv on May 17, 2017 15:02:08 GMT -5
Interesting issue, and and urgent one for me... I am going to try the A/C route for now, but long term a chiller may be indicated. Today is the first hot day. 85F out, 77 F inside, tank running up to 83F. The reason is radiant heat from the outside wall. Last summer it got to be 90F in that tank during relatively hot period, and it's unstoppable. I even have a radiant barrier behind the tank to slow down the uptake of radiant heat from the outside wall, but it's facing West, and it gets the full blast of hot afternoon sun. I've thought about a chiller many a time.
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Post by Carl on May 17, 2017 15:41:21 GMT -5
Interesting issue, and and urgent one for me... I am going to try the A/C route for now, but long term a chiller may be indicated. Today is the first hot day. 85F out, 77 F inside, tank running up to 83F. The reason is radiant heat from the outside wall. Last summer it got to be 90F in that tank during relatively hot period, and it's unstoppable. I even have a radiant barrier behind the tank to slow down the uptake of radiant heat from the outside wall, but it's facing West, and it gets the full blast of hot afternoon sun. I've thought about a chiller many a time. Consider some foam on this wall as well as a wet towel draped across the back of the tank, or maybe pay someone to truck in a giant iceberg to place against this west wall on the outside. Carl
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rogierfvv
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Post by rogierfvv on May 17, 2017 16:34:20 GMT -5
I use Reflectix on the back walls of all my tanks. Against that West wall in particular it is not helping anywhere near enough. Last year I ran the A/C at 77F, but the tank ran up to 90F. so this year I'm going to run at 72F and see what happens. I suspect it will be a whopping electric bill and that a chiller would be cheaper, but then again, I can't possibly do a chiller on all my tanks... it's a real challenge. I was surprised that nobody croaked last summer...
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Post by Carl on May 18, 2017 8:53:47 GMT -5
My experience has been using a room A/C has ALWAYS been vastly cheaper than a chiller, both in up front & maintenance and close for operating costs. As well if multiple tanks are ina room, it is cheaper yet for the room A/C.
The only time I found a chiller was needed was when MH lights were used or when the aquarium was placed in an office with auto temperature control where by the A/C went off during the weekend (in one case the marine aquarium was ina top floor office in tall building in LA with auto temp control)
Carl
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Post by devonjohnsgard on May 18, 2017 12:31:37 GMT -5
On hot hot days. Placing a wet towel on the front of the tank with a fan blowing on it, helps lower the tank a few degrees. It's a little more work, but might just help in case of emergency.
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rogierfvv
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Post by rogierfvv on May 19, 2017 3:35:52 GMT -5
Thanks for all the feedback. The towel idea may be all I can do for the smaller tanks, but the big tank collects up too much heat. Radiant heat is the problem, not ambient heat. It is 4:21 AM as I write this and the A/C has been running non-stop for the last two days, and with a temperature setting of 75F, it barely keeps the room down to 79.5F, even while the outside temp right now is "only" 77F. But, the tank is still at 81.5F, and this is just the effect from 2 hot days. That's the pleasure of being in a crappy old building in NY, with in this case Western exposure and the tank sitting in front of a brick wall. That wall does not cool down, and continues to radiate all night long after a hot day, The miracle is nobody died last year, even though I had weeks on end over 90F last summer. Logically speaking it will shorten the lifespan of various critters. I can take my little I/R thermometer and read the fact that at 4 in the morning the walls are hotter than the outside air, meaning they have, and are continuing to, radiate stored heat for days. I'll bite the bullet and try to see if I can manage any better with a chiller. I can't put a larger A/C in here.
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Post by Carl on May 19, 2017 9:30:43 GMT -5
Thanks for all the feedback. The towel idea may be all I can do for the smaller tanks, but the big tank collects up too much heat. Radiant heat is the problem, not ambient heat. I understand that it is radiant heat, I have dealt with this too. This is why I suggested foam or similar as well as a wet towel BEHIND the tank to block this heat A fan blowing across the back (or better an evaporative cooler) along with some sort of vent near your ceiling to wick away this ambient heat. I am confident this can be "defeated"! Carl
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rogierfvv
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Post by rogierfvv on Jun 14, 2017 22:32:16 GMT -5
Thanks again for all the advice... things have been rough. Since late May the main tank was in the low to mid 80's and this morning it was 86.8F, I hooked up the chiller and I'm back down to 79F. I am sure I won't like the bills, but in this house that's what it takes. For the smaller tanks I am working on ventilation/evaporation, but for the main tank (29G) that really was not going to do. In July and August it was into the 90's last year, and this year I have more fish. It's yet more equipment, and needs servicing but, realistically, I only need it for about three months, and the recommended service interval is six months, in other words, I could simply decommission it at the end of summer, service it and then relaunch it again late May next year. No more need to agonize all the time if I am going to have fish soup for dinner. Evidently, you end up paying through the nose for the heat it extracts from the aquarium is dumped in your room, and then your A/C has to dissipate that. A double whammy.On the other hand I no longer have to leave the A/C on day and night to keep the fish cool.
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Post by Carl on Jun 15, 2017 9:29:18 GMT -5
Where do you live where it gets this hot (indoors too) this early in the season?
Carl
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Jun 15, 2017 12:05:01 GMT -5
Tough Apartment living...
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rogierfvv
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Post by rogierfvv on Jul 4, 2017 16:54:41 GMT -5
Ok, sofar this is going quite well, though at one point I suspect an MTS got stuck in the pump that drives the chiller, and suddenly it spiked to 87F on June 12. Aside from that incident, it runs about 10x daily and goes on at 80 and off again at 78, and it works like a charm. Power consumption appears to be quite modest. However, based on the experience, I am now looking for a pump that matches up with 1/2" ID hose, and has a better screen. In the worst case I'll do an ATI prefilter, but I would prefer not, since this is only a 29G tank.
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Post by Carl on Jul 4, 2017 19:19:03 GMT -5
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rogierfvv
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Post by rogierfvv on Aug 29, 2017 6:05:43 GMT -5
Wow... that pump looks great, but a little overkill for me... my little circulation pump draws 4.5 Watts... In short, I would hesitate to step up to a pump using 28Wats, if I can do it with 4.5 Watts. I may be better off jury-rigging a bit of a prefilter myself...
Meanwhile I have now installed an electricity monitor in my apt. and I can detect that the chiller uses about 200 Watts, and usually runs about 1-2 mins at a clip - so it is much like an A/C, but it runs only 10-20 times a day depending on how hot it is. I have not had another clog, but long term I will want to fix this. At this point, I expect that I will probably figure out a solution in winter time, after I service the Chiller for the season...
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Post by Carl on Aug 29, 2017 9:10:01 GMT -5
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rogierfvv
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Post by rogierfvv on Oct 1, 2017 9:52:31 GMT -5
Oh well, it's the end of A/C season, and with it comes the end of chiller season... and the tally is in, thanks to some measurements I have been performing. The chiller seems to use about 0.7-0.8 kWh/day, and it runs for about 4 months. My rates here in NY are $0.30/kWh. In short, it cost me about $7.50 a month for four months, to run the chiller for the summer. Therefore, for a total of $30 in running costs, I no longer have to worry about unwanted fish soup!
The biggest remaining weakness is the intake pump. I need to find a low power pump with a sufficient sponge filter, so snails cannot get in... I have MTS in my tank, and they now travel through the chiller... but I have had one occasion where the intake got clogged. I am using a 180 Gph Hydor circulation pump, and I am still looking for something similar but with a better screen, or else I will have to improvise something...
Chiller calls for servicing every six months (basically a back flush). So I will just decommission it for winter.
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Post by Carl on Oct 1, 2017 11:23:45 GMT -5
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Oct 2, 2017 12:36:53 GMT -5
Great math. Interesting to know.
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rogierfvv
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3rd time around aquarium keeper, observer, learner
Posts: 84
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Post by rogierfvv on Apr 16, 2018 14:46:38 GMT -5
Oh well, it's the end of A/C season, and with it comes the end of chiller season... and the tally is in, thanks to some measurements I have been performing. The chiller seems to use about 0.7-0.8 kWh/day, and it runs for about 4 months. My rates here in NY are $0.30/kWh. In short, it cost me about $7.50 a month for four months, to run the chiller for the summer. Therefore, for a total of $30 in running costs, I no longer have to worry about unwanted fish soup! The biggest remaining weakness is the intake pump. I need to find a low power pump with a sufficient sponge filter, so snails cannot get in... I have MTS in my tank, and they now travel through the chiller... but I have had one occasion where the intake got clogged. I am using a 180 Gph Hydor circulation pump, and I am still looking for something similar but with a better screen, or else I will have to improvise something... Chiller calls for servicing every six months (basically a back flush). So I will just decommission it for winter. So, I never got around to properly decommissioning it (surprise, surprise), but regardless, the solution was two Eheim quick disconnects, so I can just briefly back-flush the system by reversing the flow. Easy as pie.
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