Benign organisms? Should I move goldfish back to tank?
Dec 20, 2015 17:38:52 GMT -5
devonjohnsgard likes this
Post by perry on Dec 20, 2015 17:38:52 GMT -5
I apologize in advance for the length of this post, but I figure that too much information is better than lack of information. Back in the Spring of 2015, I posted some about the saga of Louie and Goldie. Due to the events described below, I have Goldie in the main tank (36 gal.) and Louie in the hospital tank (3 gal.). I would like to return Louie to the main aquarium, but I do not know if I have some kind of invincible, weird worm (s) or if I have something benign in the main aquarium. I would appreciate your thoughts.
Louie is a 7 inch comet goldfish that is about 4.5 y.o. His tankmate (36 gal. tank) is Goldie, who is about 5 inches and 1 y.o (best guess). Louie had a history of gasping, etc. that I discussed back in the Spring on this forum. Louie improved some although I noticed that he was making a lot of vertical ascents to gasp and was alternating this with sitting at the bottom of the tank. Water chemistry was within normal limits. After some searching and questioning of vets via e-mail, I found an exotic pet vet who appeared to know fish (and had the same fish for 27 years) and I took Louie and Goldie to him in late June 2015. He visually inspected and snipped Louie’s gills, checked scales, and checked feces under microscope. No sign of parasites. I asked him to x-ray Louie due to the longstanding respiratory and apparent swim bladder issues (he would fall like a rock after his vertical ascents). In the top and side views, there only appeared to be one swim bladder. Moreover, he saw intestinal gas and thought that it made sense to put Louie on metronidazole, first in the aquarium, and later when no improvement, in a gel food with enrofloxacin (antibiotic). Louie was still alternating gasping and sitting on bottom. I moved him to a 3 gallon hospital tank because the climb to gasp in the main tank seemed to be a huge effort. We then added meloxicam to his food mix. By late July, there was some improvement (less lethargy) and, by mid-August, his buoyancy was much improved and there was less gasping. During this period, I returned him to the main tank. However, in early October, I noticed three things: 1) that Goldie had a bulge in the abdomen, although he otherwise appeared to be acting normal; 2) Goldie had one instance of a long (2 inches) worm-like string protruding from his anus (FIRST TWO PHOTOS); and 3) Louie’s buoyancy problems returned and I moved him back to his hospital tank. I took both fish back to the vet. In the case of Goldie, the vet at first dismissed the worm-like protrusion because I reported that it readily broke up when I tried to extract it from the aquarium. He therefore assumed it was feces. I could not get a good sample. At the vet appointment he used a needle to aspirate Goldie’s abdominal lump and sent it to a pathologist. That day, he injected Goldie with Baytril. The subsequent report came back that they were granulomatous cyst cells consistent with a protozoan or myxozoan infection. Because of the possibility of protozoans or myozoans in the aquarium water, he recommended that I add malachite green to the water, although he also advised that if this was a myxozoan infection, there was not a good treatment. He wanted me to give them both metronidazole internally and I also resumed the three-part mixiture for Louie. I added Seachem Paraguard to the water of each aquarium as well (during a subsequent week, I re-administered Paraguard). The next week I reported to the vet that I saw a charcoal gray worm-like organism moving in the bottom of my gravel siphon, which I also noticed in the Biomax zeolite filter. (THIRD AND FOURTH PHOTOS) I had noticed this before (but did not notice movement at that time) and assumed it was some kind of algae. Moreover, the extracted water in the bucket had these “worms,” but I also noticed pink thread-like worms that were about 3 mm long. When I hit them with bleach, they would swirl around and would take hours to die. I reported this to the vet. I wondered if the pink threads could be camallanus cotti (TOO SMALL AND QUICK TO GET A GOOD PHOTO), although I never saw any protruding from Goldie’s anus and there were only a handful that I could see in each 2 gallon bucket of water. Over the next several weeks, I alternated dosing the tanks with praziquantel and levamisole. It did not eliminate the pink “threads” or the charcoal gray “worms” although many of the gray “worms” appeared to be dead. That is true to this day. In November, I noticed that there were some tiny white insects on the surface of the aquarium. In addition, I noticed some odd worm-like creatures that I had not seen before in the gravel. I grabbed some samples for the vet and put them in ethyl alcohol (could not get a formalin kit; vet is 30 miles away and mostly provides advice by e-mail) and took them to the vet. He advised that the worm-like creatures appeared to him to be like insect larva that you would find in a pond. I have been trying to skim the tiny white flies (or are they springtails) from the surface and to clean around the tank above the surface and under the hood to eliminate the possibility of insects/larva. I have also gone to keeping the hood closed, whereas before would keep it open. I do not see any large odd worms on the bottom anymore. The siphoned gravel appears to be cleaner than before -- less charcoal gray “worms” although they are still there and some are moving and the pink threads are still there and moving. The biomax filter still has gray “worms” on the zeolite. However, I am under the impression that keeping the lid closed and/or paying special attention to cleaning around the top of the aquarium and has contributed to the somewhat cleaner looking siphon water. Over time, both fish improved -- Goldie’s abdomen healed and did not seem worse for wear. So, the levamisole and praziquantel did not work, Goldie does not seem affected by whatever organisms remain in the aquarium, and the vet is thinking insect larva. However, I think that we either have a combination of organisms (harmless waste eaters) and insect larva or insect larva at different stages. If you got this far, does anyone have any thoughts about the identity of the charcoal-gray worms and the tiny, pink thread-like worms? Would you recommend moving Louie back to the main aquarium? The poor fish has been imprisoned in the 3 gal. tank for 2 ½ months.
Louie is a 7 inch comet goldfish that is about 4.5 y.o. His tankmate (36 gal. tank) is Goldie, who is about 5 inches and 1 y.o (best guess). Louie had a history of gasping, etc. that I discussed back in the Spring on this forum. Louie improved some although I noticed that he was making a lot of vertical ascents to gasp and was alternating this with sitting at the bottom of the tank. Water chemistry was within normal limits. After some searching and questioning of vets via e-mail, I found an exotic pet vet who appeared to know fish (and had the same fish for 27 years) and I took Louie and Goldie to him in late June 2015. He visually inspected and snipped Louie’s gills, checked scales, and checked feces under microscope. No sign of parasites. I asked him to x-ray Louie due to the longstanding respiratory and apparent swim bladder issues (he would fall like a rock after his vertical ascents). In the top and side views, there only appeared to be one swim bladder. Moreover, he saw intestinal gas and thought that it made sense to put Louie on metronidazole, first in the aquarium, and later when no improvement, in a gel food with enrofloxacin (antibiotic). Louie was still alternating gasping and sitting on bottom. I moved him to a 3 gallon hospital tank because the climb to gasp in the main tank seemed to be a huge effort. We then added meloxicam to his food mix. By late July, there was some improvement (less lethargy) and, by mid-August, his buoyancy was much improved and there was less gasping. During this period, I returned him to the main tank. However, in early October, I noticed three things: 1) that Goldie had a bulge in the abdomen, although he otherwise appeared to be acting normal; 2) Goldie had one instance of a long (2 inches) worm-like string protruding from his anus (FIRST TWO PHOTOS); and 3) Louie’s buoyancy problems returned and I moved him back to his hospital tank. I took both fish back to the vet. In the case of Goldie, the vet at first dismissed the worm-like protrusion because I reported that it readily broke up when I tried to extract it from the aquarium. He therefore assumed it was feces. I could not get a good sample. At the vet appointment he used a needle to aspirate Goldie’s abdominal lump and sent it to a pathologist. That day, he injected Goldie with Baytril. The subsequent report came back that they were granulomatous cyst cells consistent with a protozoan or myxozoan infection. Because of the possibility of protozoans or myozoans in the aquarium water, he recommended that I add malachite green to the water, although he also advised that if this was a myxozoan infection, there was not a good treatment. He wanted me to give them both metronidazole internally and I also resumed the three-part mixiture for Louie. I added Seachem Paraguard to the water of each aquarium as well (during a subsequent week, I re-administered Paraguard). The next week I reported to the vet that I saw a charcoal gray worm-like organism moving in the bottom of my gravel siphon, which I also noticed in the Biomax zeolite filter. (THIRD AND FOURTH PHOTOS) I had noticed this before (but did not notice movement at that time) and assumed it was some kind of algae. Moreover, the extracted water in the bucket had these “worms,” but I also noticed pink thread-like worms that were about 3 mm long. When I hit them with bleach, they would swirl around and would take hours to die. I reported this to the vet. I wondered if the pink threads could be camallanus cotti (TOO SMALL AND QUICK TO GET A GOOD PHOTO), although I never saw any protruding from Goldie’s anus and there were only a handful that I could see in each 2 gallon bucket of water. Over the next several weeks, I alternated dosing the tanks with praziquantel and levamisole. It did not eliminate the pink “threads” or the charcoal gray “worms” although many of the gray “worms” appeared to be dead. That is true to this day. In November, I noticed that there were some tiny white insects on the surface of the aquarium. In addition, I noticed some odd worm-like creatures that I had not seen before in the gravel. I grabbed some samples for the vet and put them in ethyl alcohol (could not get a formalin kit; vet is 30 miles away and mostly provides advice by e-mail) and took them to the vet. He advised that the worm-like creatures appeared to him to be like insect larva that you would find in a pond. I have been trying to skim the tiny white flies (or are they springtails) from the surface and to clean around the tank above the surface and under the hood to eliminate the possibility of insects/larva. I have also gone to keeping the hood closed, whereas before would keep it open. I do not see any large odd worms on the bottom anymore. The siphoned gravel appears to be cleaner than before -- less charcoal gray “worms” although they are still there and some are moving and the pink threads are still there and moving. The biomax filter still has gray “worms” on the zeolite. However, I am under the impression that keeping the lid closed and/or paying special attention to cleaning around the top of the aquarium and has contributed to the somewhat cleaner looking siphon water. Over time, both fish improved -- Goldie’s abdomen healed and did not seem worse for wear. So, the levamisole and praziquantel did not work, Goldie does not seem affected by whatever organisms remain in the aquarium, and the vet is thinking insect larva. However, I think that we either have a combination of organisms (harmless waste eaters) and insect larva or insect larva at different stages. If you got this far, does anyone have any thoughts about the identity of the charcoal-gray worms and the tiny, pink thread-like worms? Would you recommend moving Louie back to the main aquarium? The poor fish has been imprisoned in the 3 gal. tank for 2 ½ months.
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