Fish Food

[angelminx]

I did have one container of food--OSI Angel Flake--that somehow got moisture in it, and I had to throw it away. I try to keep the lids on tight, and at the correct angle--sometimes I have to fight to get them to screw back on correctly. I've also never been able to keep the moisture out of freeze-dried brine shrimp (and they come in such large containers)and have had to throw them out within a month of opening them, so I quit purchasing it. So far no problem with freeze-dried bloodworms.

Clay, How do you keep your food fresh after it's been opened?

Angelminx

[clayn]

Sept 19, 2014 13:02:42 GMT -5 angelminx said:

I did have one container of food--OSI Angel Flake--that somehow got moisture in it, and I had to throw it away. I try to keep the lids on tight, and at the correct angle--sometimes I have to fight to get them to screw back on correctly. I've also never been able to keep the moisture out of freeze-dried brine shrimp (and they come in such large containers)and have had to throw them out within a month of opening them, so I quit purchasing it. So far no problem with freeze-dried bloodworms.

Clay, How do you keep your food fresh after it's been opened?

Angelminx

Seal it up and store it in a cool dry place.

[angelminx]

Thanks, Clay.

[clayn]

Sept 19, 2014 2:02:16 GMT -5 angelminx said:

Thanks, Clay.
As I stated before, I don't need the food yet. Except for one that I opened at the end of last year, all of the foods I have had been opened sometime after the beginning of this year--before I even found the AAP site (except for the Spirulina 20 which Carl recommended), and the ones with expiration dates have quite a while to go on them. I've read that you shouldn't use dry foods any more after they've been open for a year. [What's your opinion on that, Carl?]

I was thinking about getting all 3 (except the Grow). What is your opinion? I have a Betta (in a separate tank with some ghost shrimp); and 2 adult angels, some tetras (Black Phantom and Black Neon), some cories (sold as "assorted spotted cories" that are probably agassizii, ambiacus, or something similar--all my books have the pictures of these two mixed up with both names, but they also look slightly different), an albino bristlenose pleco, and some shrimp (ghost, amano, and bamboo), as well as some Nerites, as well as a couple Chocolate Rabbit Snails. These all live in my 55G. I am also looking to add one or more SAEs.

Angelminx

First our food is very efficient so a little goes a long way.

The Betta is a carnivore and the Ghost Shrimp are omnivores. Simply crumble the carnivore really small for the Betta and the omnivore a little too large for the Betta. If any pieces of carnivore get by the betta and fall to the bottom the shrimp will be fine eating them and adding omnivore is not needed.

The Angels are omnivores. Tetras are omnivores. Cory Cats are on the meaty side of omnivores. Bristlenose are herbivores. The shrimp and snails will feed on any leftovers that fall to the bottom. I wouldn't worry about feeding the SAE's unless there is no algae to eat. The SAE's are herbivores. I would try target feeding the angels and tetras on one side then feed the botom dwellers on the other side.

I hope this helps!

[clayn]

Sept 19, 2014 9:46:42 GMT -5 Carl said:

I think using dry food for a year after opening is a reasonable rule of thumb, but there is no real science behind this either. You could also use the "smell test", in which if it smells stale, to not use it.

The biggest problem with food that has been opened for some time is loss of nutrients. Now if the food was not kept in a dry location or humidity has gotten inside the container, then it is possible for bacteria, Saprolegnia to get into the food.
Adding desiccants to your sealed dry food container will extend the freshness and also likely prevent bacteria an/or Saprolegnia from growing.

Carl

Most fish keepers like to buy large amounts to save on shipping. If you do this I like to keep out enough for a few months and seal the rest up really good with as little air as possible and freeze it in 3 month portions. In my opinion it is best to buy enough food to last six months max. The fresher the food is the better it is for your fish.

[clayn]

Sept 19, 2014 10:55:26 GMT -5 devonjohnsgard said:

Sept 18, 2014 16:26:30 GMT -5 clayn said:

I will let you in on a secret. When we were finalizing the formulas I sent multiple formulas of each type to my partners for testing. Omnivore 1 was immediately ruled out because it was very hard and dense. A couple of months ago they decided to try Omnivore 1 as a pleco food. After some testing they found that even with plecos constantly grazing on the food it lasted for 22 hours. So I have tried to make all three types of Graze with no luck. So I went back to Omnivore 1 and realized it was the percentages of spirulina, green pea flour, egg whites and whole fish meal that made this work. It is a middle of the road omnivore food since the ingredients and percentages make it work. We are planning on launching it at The All-Aquarium Catfish Convention in October. From what we have found this will be the first food that lasts almost a day with fish constantly munching on it.

Thank you for all of the kind comments!

Feel free to post the video on Paradigm facebook page www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008279551101&fref=ts&ref=br_tf.

While you are there scroll down and read Rebecca B's thoughts on the food.

Interesting. I haven't heard of such a thing. I wonder how the fish would take to trying to eat it at first and through the day. My pleco would most likely run over and sit on it so no one else could try to eat on it. He "claims" whatever hits the tank bottom.

Ill make that video soon and put it on FB. And read the comments.

Thanks Clay for the inside info.

The plecos that we tested the Omnivore 1 on never left it until it was gone 22 hours later! lol Its too hard for the other fish that aren't Grazers. However snails and shrimp might like it as well.

Please leave a review on FB. Feel free to include a plug for Carl.

[kevin]

Hi Clay,
I bought the Carnivore for my 17 year old, 12"long Zebra Tilapia (cichlid)--after he was having eating issues from being sick. I switched to a different frozen (old food was bloodworms and brine shrimp before I finally found the website American Aquarium Prod & Aquarium Answers) that had reliable, researched info. Re-thought the whole "what am I really feeding him and why" thing. It was a food that was suggested by Carl I think, and now he will go to that faster than the frozen organic blend (not mentioning the name) which Im reducing to eventually stop. Albeit, I have put the garlic oil of it as a help to restore his immunity. (would love to see this food with the garlic as you mentioned)

But, so you know, I read all 6 pages of this thread, and immediately felt like I really I got to watch the process grow, and some of us are willing to boldly go- and learn new stuff.

I break it up into 1/4-1/2" pieces and drip about 4-5 drops of oil on it, give it a sec, and drop it in piece by piece. Im making sure he eats whats given - about 5 min or so, and when hes not picking off bottom, I stop. I believe all the suggestions from Carl and Devon have really brought him back from being on his way out- and that started July 12, 14 when I finally found this info. He'd keep eating if I let him.

Quick question: I have noticed his waste seems much more like med dark brick red color than the brown or gray brown it used to be. It this good? Considered normal? Is it excess protein? Im working down a nitrate issue and not sure how or if this is affecting it.
Otherwise, just wanted to give you a thumbs up from So Cal.

Oh, and I totally agree on the smaller increments being opened everyday, while the balance is frozen. I didn't think to break into 3 month issues. Good one.

Mostly just wanted to say thanks for having integrity in your work.

Kevin

[clayn]

Sept 19, 2014 20:55:53 GMT -5 kevin said:

Hi Clay,
I bought the Carnivore for my 17 year old, 12"long Zebra Tilapia (cichlid)--after he was having eating issues from being sick. I switched to a different frozen (old food was bloodworms and brine shrimp before I finally found the website American Aquarium Prod & Aquarium Answers) that had reliable, researched info. Re-thought the whole "what am I really feeding him and why" thing. It was a food that was suggested by Carl I think, and now he will go to that faster than the frozen organic blend (not mentioning the name) which Im reducing to eventually stop. Albeit, I have put the garlic oil of it as a help to restore his immunity. (would love to see this food with the garlic as you mentioned)

But, so you know, I read all 6 pages of this thread, and immediately felt like I really I got to watch the process grow, and some of us are willing to boldly go- and learn new stuff.

I break it up into 1/4-1/2" pieces and drip about 4-5 drops of oil on it, give it a sec, and drop it in piece by piece. Im making sure he eats whats given - about 5 min or so, and when hes not picking off bottom, I stop. I believe all the suggestions from Carl and Devon have really brought him back from being on his way out- and that started July 12, 14 when I finally found this info. He'd keep eating if I let him.

Quick question: I have noticed his waste seems much more like med dark brick red color than the brown or gray brown it used to be. It this good? Considered normal? Is it excess protein? Im working down a nitrate issue and not sure how or if this is affecting it.
Otherwise, just wanted to give you a thumbs up from So Cal.

Oh, and I totally agree on the smaller increments being opened everyday, while the balance is frozen. I didn't think to break into 3 month issues. Good one.

Mostly just wanted to say thanks for having integrity in your work.

Kevin

Hi Kevin,

The folks on this board are top notch. Not sure on the fecal matter. I highly doubt that it is excess protein. Its also not likely it is affecting your nitrates in a negative way. I am not the best source on this board to address the color of the waste. Maybe someone else here can help on that.

Thank You very much for the kind words.

Clay

[devonjohnsgard]

Sept 19, 2014 20:55:53 GMT -5 kevin said:

Hi Clay,
I bought the Carnivore for my 17 year old, 12"long Zebra Tilapia (cichlid)--after he was having eating issues from being sick. I switched to a different frozen (old food was bloodworms and brine shrimp before I finally found the website American Aquarium Prod & Aquarium Answers) that had reliable, researched info. Re-thought the whole "what am I really feeding him and why" thing. It was a food that was suggested by Carl I think, and now he will go to that faster than the frozen organic blend (not mentioning the name) which Im reducing to eventually stop. Albeit, I have put the garlic oil of it as a help to restore his immunity. (would love to see this food with the garlic as you mentioned)

But, so you know, I read all 6 pages of this thread, and immediately felt like I really I got to watch the process grow, and some of us are willing to boldly go- and learn new stuff.

I break it up into 1/4-1/2" pieces and drip about 4-5 drops of oil on it, give it a sec, and drop it in piece by piece. Im making sure he eats whats given - about 5 min or so, and when hes not picking off bottom, I stop. I believe all the suggestions from Carl and Devon have really brought him back from being on his way out- and that started July 12, 14 when I finally found this info. He'd keep eating if I let him.

Quick question: I have noticed his waste seems much more like med dark brick red color than the brown or gray brown it used to be. It this good? Considered normal? Is it excess protein? Im working down a nitrate issue and not sure how or if this is affecting it.
Otherwise, just wanted to give you a thumbs up from So Cal.

Oh, and I totally agree on the smaller increments being opened everyday, while the balance is frozen. I didn't think to break into 3 month issues. Good one.

Mostly just wanted to say thanks for having integrity in your work.

Kevin

I'm thinking as long as the waste is not white or clear, everything is normal. As for the bio-load, no matter what food is being feed, the food or the waste will add to the nitrates. We just need to watch how much we feed, and only enough for like 2-5 minutes of eating. Watching how much is feed and regular vacuuming, will keep Nitrates down. Also, this is considering good filtration.

Also about Garlic, I would suggestion only feeding garlic oil when there is an illness. Long-term use of garlic can harm fish.
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/quality_fish_food.html#garlic

[clayn]

My opinion on garlic. Garlic is only useful if it has not been exposed to a temperature over 100 degrees F. A temperature over 100 degrees changes the allicin into something else rendering it useless. Once I learned this I no longer included garlic in any of our recipes as its simply an appetite stimulant. Its best to press your garlic at home and soak our I mean your food in it prior to feeding. Like Devon said feed only what they will eat in less than two minutes. When someone who sells fish food advises you to feed less believe it.

[kevin]

Sept 20, 2014 13:48:02 GMT -5 devonjohnsgard said:

Sept 19, 2014 20:55:53 GMT -5 kevin said:

Hi Clay,
I bought the Carnivore for my 17 year old, 12"long Zebra Tilapia (cichlid)--after he was having eating issues from being sick. I switched to a different frozen (old food was bloodworms and brine shrimp before I finally found the website American Aquarium Prod & Aquarium Answers) that had reliable, researched info. Re-thought the whole "what am I really feeding him and why" thing. It was a food that was suggested by Carl I think, and now he will go to that faster than the frozen organic blend (not mentioning the name) which Im reducing to eventually stop. Albeit, I have put the garlic oil of it as a help to restore his immunity. (would love to see this food with the garlic as you mentioned)

But, so you know, I read all 6 pages of this thread, and immediately felt like I really I got to watch the process grow, and some of us are willing to boldly go- and learn new stuff.

I break it up into 1/4-1/2" pieces and drip about 4-5 drops of oil on it, give it a sec, and drop it in piece by piece. Im making sure he eats whats given - about 5 min or so, and when hes not picking off bottom, I stop. I believe all the suggestions from Carl and Devon have really brought him back from being on his way out- and that started July 12, 14 when I finally found this info. He'd keep eating if I let him.

Quick question: I have noticed his waste seems much more like med dark brick red color than the brown or gray brown it used to be. It this good? Considered normal? Is it excess protein? Im working down a nitrate issue and not sure how or if this is affecting it.
Otherwise, just wanted to give you a thumbs up from So Cal.

Oh, and I totally agree on the smaller increments being opened everyday, while the balance is frozen. I didn't think to break into 3 month issues. Good one.

Mostly just wanted to say thanks for having integrity in your work.

Kevin

I'm thinking as long as the waste is not white or clear, everything is normal. As for the bio-load, no matter what food is being feed, the food or the waste will add to the nitrates. We just need to watch how much we feed, and only enough for like 2-5 minutes of eating. Watching how much is feed and regular vacuuming, will keep Nitrates down. Also, this is considering good filtration.

Also about Garlic, I would suggestion only feeding garlic oil when there is an illness. Long-term use of garlic can harm fish.
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/quality_fish_food.html#garlic

[kevin]

Ok, not sure on how to quote. Didn't want whole thing. Just wanted to quote the "about garlic" piece, and say thanks, I'll back off now that he's doing better. And we're already talking about nitrate and solutions in the Cichlid post so don't want to get off track here.
Clay- I'll try that with the garlic next time he's sick or something is going on. For now, just food. On the 2 minute limit, even tho he's a big fish, he seems to chew up stuff for 10-20 sec or so each piece, should I be giving a larger piece and only 2 or 3 of them? I have been feeding 1x day. This still stands?
Kevin

[clayn]

Sept 20, 2014 17:22:56 GMT -5 kevin said:

Ok, not sure on how to quote. Didn't want whole thing. Just wanted to quote the "about garlic" piece, and say thanks, I'll back off now that he's doing better. And we're already talking about nitrate and solutions in the Cichlid post so don't want to get off track here.
Clay- I'll try that with the garlic next time he's sick or something is going on. For now, just food. On the 2 minute limit, even tho he's a big fish, he seems to chew up stuff for 10-20 sec or so each piece, should I be giving a larger piece and only 2 or 3 of them? I have been feeding 1x day. This still stands?
Kevin

I feed a piece of food as big as the fishes eye twice daily. They are cold blooded animals and are very efficient with what they eat so it is very easy to overfeed them.

[kevin]

Well then, I've got some serious over-feeding going on. I've probably been doing 5-7x that except only once per day. That answered the question tho. Thanks.
Should I drop to that immediately or incrementally?

[clayn]

Immediately..That alone will help significantly with your nitrate problem.

[kevin]

ok, thanks. Just seems like such a little bit for such a big fish. :-(
I fed him less this morning and he kept looking around for the rest of it.

[parker002]

It's now September and I'm feeding my large koi every other day. In 6-8 weeks, they will stop getting fed until APRIL. Clay is absolutely right, fish are cold blooded and as such, their metabolism is much different than ours or our other pets'. Outside of simple outright neglect, it is practically impossible to underfeed your fish. It is far more likely, and detrimental to your fishes' health, to overfeed them.

As for storing the Paradigm, I have kept some of the plastic jars from the Spirulina 20 and I am keeping mine in those.

[kevin]

Its easier to change my perception of reality than to change reality itself. He just looks and acts hungry. Im going by what you guys say-which is hard. A piece or two, the size of his eye (eat in 1 min or less-which is prob two pieces) 2x per day. Does the Spirulina 20 count the same as the chunky paradigm food or can he have a couple flakes in between feedings?
(By the way, I left the Spirulina on the hearth near the tank one night and my Golden and Curly-coated retrievers got it and ate 80% of a new container. Yummy!!)
I go back and re-read the feeding articles on cold-bloodeds.

Kevin

[Carl]

The Spirulina 20 is much more light, so I would refer to what he could eat in about 3-5 minutes.
This certainly can be fed in between the Paradigm feedings, but I would be careful as to over feeding too much to the point of constant high nitrates, which can be an indicator of of over feeding, especially when one has just a single large fish in an aquarium.

Carl

[kevin]

Got it. A little flake in btwn may help his recent almost hyper behavior. He always used to re-arrange gravel but he's really been on that alot. Since I reduced food last sat, he has started scraping that BBA algae off the top of the columns. That he has never done. I was going to do the bleach removal when I pulled it out during next water change which I figured to give all this new bio media etc a week or so with no new water. Also while I figured out RO concern from other thread. Is it weird he'd start scraping off algae after reducing food? Is this bad?

Kevin