Fish Food

[clayn]

I had a tentative deal with Spencer who was the last owner of HBH Fish Food to produce my food back in 2013. They decided to end our deal which I was ok with. Spencer was big on helping out the little guy so what you are saying makes perfect sense. I hate to see that things didn't go well for him. Eric who was his right hand man informed me at the first of the year that he was leaving HBH. In hindsight I would guess that he saw the writing on the wall.

I don't pay any attention to Amazon reviews or any other fish food reviews for that matter. At what point did people lose the ability to think for themselves? How do you rate a fish food? Most would say my fish really went for it. I can easily and cheaply make a food that fish go nuts for but in the long run its not good for them. Shrimp meal bound with wheat flour would do the trick but I won't do that because the energy from the starch in the flour and fat from the shrimp meal exceeds what they can use and gets stored in the liver. I spoke with the Head of Fish Nutrition at Auburn University and he pointed out that they had caught catfish fed a grain based food and dissected the fish's liver. He said that the fish had moderate fatty liver condition but otherwise was in perfect health. I don't guess it really matters if the fish is mean't for human consumption. Its comparable to one who consumes a large quantity of alcohol over a period of time. They can live for quite awhile without problems until the cells in the liver begin dying and the liver begins shutting down. Most scientists believe that fatty liver condition shortens the life of the fish.

I can't speak about other fish foods for obvious reasons. All I can do is show people why our food is better and let them make an informed decision.

I use Bob's Red Mill green pea flour. The quality is excellent and the company is owned by its employees.

Clay

[parker002]

I haven't been following this thread closely lately but if Carl is going to sell these foods, I'll try them. I would assume at some point, probably when Carl puts them up on the AAP webpage, that all the science that went into these foods will get boiled down into layman's terms? I've been using Spirulina 20 (thanks Carl) for a long time now with great success in terms of fish health and vitality, so I would certainly want to know why it might be beneficial for me to switch. Consider me a test consumer.

[clayn]

Parker everyone is a test consumer. Our foods contain less starch and fat than the foods that are bound with starch. We also use egg whites as a binder which allows us to do reduce starch. The second difference is that our food is dehydrated at 150 degrees F. as opposed to pellet food which is extruded at 350 degrees F. This is important because we use naturally occurring vitamins and do not destroy them with high temperatures. Those are the two main differences in what we are doing.

[Carl]

I use Bob's Red Mill green pea flour. The quality is excellent and the company is owned by its employees.

I am familiar with their products and their very high quality; Good to know and I think this is a selling point that many savvy buyers might already be aware of.

The second difference is that our food is dehydrated at 150 degrees F. as opposed to pellet food which is extruded at 350 degrees F. This is important because we use naturally occurring vitamins and do not destroy them with high temperatures.

This is a major selling point too, since this heat can destroy many nutrients and probiotics found naturally in foods

Carl

[parker002]

Jun 27, 2014 8:53:16 GMT -5 clayn said:

Parker everyone is a test consumer. Our foods contain less starch and fat than the foods that are bound with starch. We also use egg whites as a binder which allows us to do reduce starch. The second difference is that our food is dehydrated at 150 degrees F. as opposed to pellet food which is extruded at 350 degrees F. This is important because we use naturally occurring vitamins and do not destroy them with high temperatures. Those are the two main differences in what we are doing.

I suggest myself as a "test consumer" because I know just enough about the science to provide feedback (and be a pain in the ass ).

And you make a good salesman.  This is exactly what I was requesting.

[clayn]

Carl my partner Stephanie is contacting you regarding our business practices etc. I am just the guy who developed the formulas. Just so you know in April of 2013 McDonalds came out with their new egg white mcmuffin. Since that time the price of egg whites have more than doubled due to every other fast food place selling breakfast followed suit. The price is still going up! From what I have been reading their is no relief in site especially with several states imposing new regulations which will keep the price high and more than likely drive it higher. I thought at this point the egg market would correct itself by new people getting into the business. Boy was I wrong!!

[clayn]

I am glad that I was able to answer your questions. If you have any more feel free to ask. I am no salesman btw, I just understand our food backwards and forwards.

[parker002]

I'm a systems architect. I started in the IT industry as an engineer, doing techie things that nobody that wasn't similarly employed could understand. As an architect, now my job is to take that technology and translate it into business outcomes. By doing that, it allows our sales people to go out and win customers. I've been told by people that appreciate my services that being able to survive in both worlds is a valuable skill.

This applies just as much to you to your response to me - you know your food backwards and forwards but you also obviously know WHY people would want it. Don't sell yourself short as a salesman. Knowledge trumps everything else in the sales world.

I've read through a lot of the science you've demonstrated in this thread and while interesting, it isn't going to sell your fish food. I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of average aquarists never read the protein/fat/carb/water breakdown of their fish food nor do they have the slightest idea that things like calcium caseinate and corn meal aren't good for their fish. What is going to sell your food is precisely the answer you gave me. Quality ingredients and better processing equals healthier fish.

[clayn]

I guess over time I have gotten it down to the points that hit home with people. I also design HVAC. When the construction market tanked in 2009 I found myself unemployed. I have a few clients that I do work for from time to time. That left me with lots of time to study fish nutrition.

[parker002]

Jun 27, 2014 18:03:04 GMT -5 clayn said:

I guess over time I have gotten it down to the points that hit home with people.

Congratulations, you're a salesman.

Make sure to post here when the foods are available. I will definitely be interested.

[Carl]

Jun 30, 2014 10:37:35 GMT -5 parker002 said:

Congratulations, you're a salesman.

Make sure to post here when the foods are available. I will definitely be interested.

We have ordered Clay's Paradigm Fish Food.

I am not sure yet when it will arrive (maybe a week?)

Here is the link:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/ParadigmFoods.html

Carl

[parker002]

Which one would be the "staple" food for a mixture of Angels, livebearers, various Colombian and other small tetras, corydoras and synodontis catfish, and 1 betta?

[Carl]

Jul 1, 2014 7:51:01 GMT -5 parker002 said:

Which one would be the "staple" food for a mixture of Angels, livebearers, various Colombian and other small tetras, corydoras and synodontis catfish, and 1 betta?

Clay might be able to answer this better, but based on the ingredients I would recommend the Omnivore with use of the 'Grow' or Carnivore' supplemented in the mix.
The wild card is the Betta which is true carnivore.

Carl

[parker002]

I kind of figured the Omnivore was the best bet too.

[clayn]

ETA next Tuesday Carl. I sent you the tracking number via email.

I agree with Carl on feeding. Try to distract with the omnivore and target feed with some carnivore. If that fails feed a mix of the two. Thank you for giving it a try!

Thank you Carl for bringing our food to the Northwest!

A little inside information. We are working on a food with garlic. Not store bought dried garlic. Fresh high quality garlic dehydrated at a very low temp. Temperatures over 100 degrees destroys much of the health benefits from garlic. I will at some point start a garlic thread for further discussion. If processed properly garlic can be much more than a taste enhancing ingredient. As always we strive to provide our customers the very best available for their fish.

[parker002]

Fresh garlic and garlic oil have astringent and antiseptic properties. They can be used to treat both bacterial and fungal infections in many cases. In human beings, it has an effect on cardiovascular health and has been shown to improve cholesterol levels. You are absolutely correct about garlic being much more than just a flavor enhancer.

[parker002]

Oh and Carl is bringing your food to a much larger area than just the Pac NW. I live in the central US.

[devonjohnsgard]

Parker has brought up some great points, I'm excited to give this a try. And really, Carl is bringing the food to the whole US and many, many international customers as well . He has a lot of international sales.

[clayn]

Our slogan is "Quality in every Crumble". We do our absolute best to live up to that. I did live taste tests on various whole fish meals and the whole menhaden meal that we use outperformed the others by a mile. The shrimp meal that we use is the freshest that I have found. It is a nice pink in color and has a really good shrimp smell. Bob's Red Mill green pea flour is fresh stone ground flour of excellent quality. Our powdered egg whites are intended for use by humans. Our spirulina powder is also intended for human consumption. Cayenne pepper and Paprika are also a food grade product. As you can see we are doing our due diligence to provide the best product possible.

Carl has done so much for the hobby that I am humbled by his enthusiasm in carrying our line of foods!

[devonjohnsgard]

I've started promoting the food on another website Carl sponsors. It's a marine aquarium specific site for the NW. Get the word out and see what happens

www.pnwmas.org/forums/showthread.php?44427-The-Best-Quaility-Fish