clayn
Full Member
Posts: 84
|
Post by clayn on Nov 23, 2013 17:45:21 GMT -5
I began making fish food over five years ago. Carl's articles were so helpful in the beginning that I consider Carl a mentor.
I would like the board to review the formulas that I have developed and please comment. I classify fish by what they eat so we will start at the top of the food chain.
Piscivore
67.5% Protein, 12.8% Fat, 13.1% Minerals/Ash, Carbohydrates 1.8% and Moisture 4.8%.
(This product is over 85% Whole Menhaden Meal)
Vitamins Present: A, E, K, B1, B2, B6, B3, C, B5, M, H, D3, B12 (13 of 13)
89% Omega 3 & 11% Omega 6
80.3% Net Energy Gain (This number does not include Minerals/Ash, Carbohydrates or Moisture)
Ingredients (Listed first to last by dry weight): Whole Menhaden Fish Meal, Dried Chicken Egg Whites, Crude Menhaden Fish Oil, Human Grade Spirulina Powder, Paprika and Astaxanthin.
This food is designed for open water pursuit predators.
|
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Nov 24, 2013 12:44:47 GMT -5
First, thank you for the kind words and the honor of being called one of your mentors.
Looking over this formula and ingredients, it looks like an excellent piscivore fish food.
In particular I like your choices of these ingredients: Whole Menhaden Fish Meal, Dried Chicken Egg Whites, & Human Grade Spirulina Powder
Regards;
Carl
|
|
clayn
Full Member
Posts: 84
|
Post by clayn on Nov 24, 2013 14:13:53 GMT -5
Thank you for the kind words Carl. Reading your articles were essential in developing my thinking on how fish food should be made.
I would lke to get your thoughts on this formula as well.
Premium Green Carnivore Fish and Invertebrates
72.1% Protein, 9.2% Fat, 12.7% Minerals/Ash, Carbohydrates 1.8% and Moisture 4.2%.
(This product is over 17% Squid Meal & 69%Whole Menhaden Fish Meal)
Vitamins Present: A, E, K, B1, B2, B6, B3, C, B5, M, H, D3, B12 (13 of 13)
88% Omega 3 & 12% Omega 6
81.3% Net Energy Gain (This number does not include Minerals/Ash, Carbohydrates or Moisture)
Ingredients (Listed first to last by dry weight): Whole Menhaden Fish Meal, Squid Meal, Dried Chicken Egg Whites,Human Grade Spirulina Powder, Paprika, Astaxanthin and Crude Menhaden Fish Oil.
Ingredients are mixed then dehydrated to preserve them naturally.
Carnivore Fish & Invertebrates is designed for ambush predators and can also be used for Piscivores that are less active than open water pursuit Piscivores.
|
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Nov 25, 2013 12:59:00 GMT -5
This looks great as well!
Are these going to be extruded?
Are you getting these packaged for re-sale?
Regards;
Carl
|
|
clayn
Full Member
Posts: 84
|
Post by clayn on Nov 25, 2013 13:41:06 GMT -5
They are dehydrated not extruded. I like the 130 degree drying temperature much better than the much higher temperatures used in the extruding process. It allows the food to retain more fat and naturally occurring vitamins. The longer drying time also works to kill all bacteria.
I package them and sell them in 1/2 lb and 1 lb quantities.
I will post a link to my website if you would like. I don't mean this to bean advertisement promoting my food. I simply want your opinion on the formulas that I am currently making.
Thank you for offering your opinion!
|
|
clayn
Full Member
Posts: 84
|
Post by clayn on Nov 25, 2013 20:01:19 GMT -5
This formula I simply can't make work to my liking without krill. The twenty lbs of krill meal that I have left I am saving for this formula. I don't know what I will do if the ban on krill as an ingredient in pet food doesn't get repealed.
Premium Green Carnivore Invertebrates
74.9% Protein, 5.2% Fat, 12.8% Minerals/Ash, Carbohydrates 2.8% and Moisture 4.3%. $10.75 per lb, $5.50 per 1/2 lb
Vitamins Present: A, E, K, B1, B2, B6, B3, C, B5, M, H, D3, B12 (13 of 13)
88% Omega 3 & 12% Omega 6
80.1% Net Energy Gain (This number does not include Minerals/Ash, Carbohydrates or Moisture)
Ingredients) Listed first to last by dry weight): Squid Meal, South Antarctic Krill Meal, Shrimp Meal, Dried Chicken Egg Whites,Human Grade Spirulina Powder, Paprika and Astaxanthin.
Ingredients are mixed then dehydrated to preserve them naturally.
Carnivore Invertebrates Crumble is designed for fish that forage the substrate hunting invertebrates and insect larvae. The prey has minimal fat and invertebrates have around 12% mineral content because of their shell.
|
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Nov 25, 2013 20:08:16 GMT -5
This last one looks excellent too.
Please place a link here and I can move it to other locations as well.
Carl
|
|
clayn
Full Member
Posts: 84
|
Post by clayn on Nov 25, 2013 20:35:58 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by devonjohnsgard on Nov 26, 2013 13:28:18 GMT -5
Interesting. It looks like a high quality fish food. Thank you for sharing and I'll keep it in mind and a recommendation. I like the fresh healthy method. Our fish friends will like this premium dinner!
|
|
clayn
Full Member
Posts: 84
|
Post by clayn on Nov 26, 2013 13:50:12 GMT -5
Interesting. It looks like a high quality fish food. Thank you for sharing and I'll keep it in mind and a recommendation. I like the fresh healthy method. Our fish friends will like this premium dinner! Thank you for the kind words! |
|
clayn
Full Member
Posts: 84
|
Post by clayn on Nov 26, 2013 18:02:30 GMT -5
Carl,
Do you have approximate digestibility percentages for krill meal, shrimp meal,squid meal or spirulina?
Thanks,
Clay
|
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Nov 26, 2013 20:07:26 GMT -5
I do not know any percentages other than protein digestibility for dried Spirulina. Generally when "digestibility" is spoken of, this refers to proteins and their building block amino acids, since it is also proteins that are not utilized by the fish that add to nitrogenous waste, thus leading to ammonia and eventually high nitrates. Sugars, Carbs, Fats do not have Nitrogen Atoms, and thus do not add to ammonia, nitrites, & nitrates For Spirulina proteins it is 83-90% Also Reference: www.antenna.ch/en/documents/AspectNut_UK.pdfFor the other ingredients, more "digging" (research) will need to be done. If you find more, please help educate others here, including me Carl |
|
clayn
Full Member
Posts: 84
|
Post by clayn on Nov 26, 2013 20:54:40 GMT -5
Hi Carl,
If I am able to find anything of use I will pass it along.
If you would be so kind please follow the link and click on the "Our Fish Foods" tab at the top ofthe page and take a look at the rest of our foods. I would appreciate your opinion greatly.
Regards,
Clay
|
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Nov 27, 2013 12:05:54 GMT -5
Yes, I actually looked this over yesterday. They all look quite good, the only suggestion I would have is for the "Premium Green Herbivore" For this one, I would suggest the Spirulina or other vegetable matter be the number 1 or at least number 2 ingredient. Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/SpirulinaAlgae.htmlAre you going to package this in a resalable package? Carl |
|
clayn
Full Member
Posts: 84
|
Post by clayn on Nov 27, 2013 14:49:06 GMT -5
Carl,
The herbivore formula has been my problem child from inception. I have done extensive research on algae. My goal has been a food under 35% protein, around 5% fat and the rest fall where it may. I don't see any way to keep the protein level at 35% and wheat flour not be the #1 ingredient without ingredient splitting (which in my opinion is deceptive). So we are left with swapping spirulina with menhaden as the #2 ingredient. This leaves me in a quandary. You and I both know menhaden is much more palatable than spirulina. The general public doesn't like it when their fish don't go after the food immediately. Yes I know they will learn to love it after going hungry for a couple of days. I will play around with the Herbivore formula and see what I can come up with.
As for packaging I could do a jar or stand up pouch with a label. Of course the jar or stand up pouch would have a cost associated with it. What quantities do you have in mind?
Regards,
Clay
|
|
clayn
Full Member
Posts: 84
|
Post by clayn on Nov 27, 2013 15:49:25 GMT -5
Premium Green Herbivore Carl
34.9% Protein, 5% Fat, 7.1% Minerals/Ash, Starch 42.9%, Fiber 4.4%, Sugar 1.3% and Moisture 4.4%.
$10.50 per lb & $5.25 per 1/2 lb
Vitamins Present: A, E, K, B1, B2, B6, B3, C, B5, M, H, D and B12 (13 of 13)
59% Omega 3 & 41% Omega 6
84.1% Net Energy Gain (This number does not include Fiber, Minerals/Ash or Moisture)
Ingredients (Listed first to last by dry weight): Wheat Flour, Human Grade Spirulina Powder,Whole Menhaden Fish Meal, Shrimp Meal, Paprika, Cayenne Pepper, Lysine, Astaxanthin and Fish Oil.
Ingredients are mixed then dehydrated to preserve them naturally.
The Omega 6/ Omega 3 percentages are very similar to most types of algae.
|
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Nov 27, 2013 19:37:12 GMT -5
You and I both know menhaden is much more palatable than spirulina. The general public doesn't like it when their fish don't go after the food immediately. Yes I know they will learn to love it after going hungry for a couple of days. I will play around with the Herbivore formula and see what I can come up with. Yes, this is the problem, but I have found that many reasonable fish keepers can be educated Unfortunately, I cannot make any commitments right now as business is the worst it has been in years, no thanks to very dishonest practices by Google and Amazon I certainly am interested, but it would be dishonest of me to make a commitment I may not be able to keep, especially since we are now at a point where we are struggling just to come up with the money to purchase products we know sell in the quantities that give us a price we must get in order to compete Carl |
|
clayn
Full Member
Posts: 84
|
Post by clayn on Nov 27, 2013 21:35:50 GMT -5
You and I both know menhaden is much more palatable than spirulina. The general public doesn't like it when their fish don't go after the food immediately. Yes I know they will learn to love it after going hungry for a couple of days. I will play around with the Herbivore formula and see what I can come up with. Yes, this is the problem, but I have found that many reasonable fish keepers can be educated Unfortunately, I cannot make any commitments right now as business is the worst it has been in years, no thanks to very dishonest practices by Google and Amazon I certainly am interested, but it would be dishonest of me to make a commitment I may not be able to keep, especially since we are now at a point where we are struggling just to come up with the money to purchase products we know sell in the quantities that give us a price we must get in order to compete Carl I understand completely. The economy is not in very good shape. Did you like Herbivore Carl any better? You have been educating people on fish nutrition longer than I have. Its not at all easy. I primarily market and sell my food to advanced hobbyists and breeders. They see the value in feeding less and the fish getting more out of it. I hate to say this but the average hobbyist isnt interested in learning about fish nutrition. They just feed what everybody else does. I am planning on fleshing out the information section on my site. You already have a wealth of information on fish nutrition. In today's world I have found that media outlets like Facebook are the best way to get your product noticed. Clay |
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Nov 28, 2013 11:28:49 GMT -5
Did you like Herbivore Carl any better? Yes, I did. Unfortunately this is more true than ever, but in part I blame blogs, forums, and websites such as Yahoo Answers where everyone is an expert after keeping a 10 gallon aquarium for 6 months I am glad you have had success with Facebook, while we have a few loyal followers, we do not have nearly the amount of likes to generate any real traffic or search engine SEO. We have tried promotions, Facebook Adverts, etc. but none have really worked. When it comes to Facebook; from my experience it is like high school part 2 and is all about who you are and who you know, if you have lots of friends who are interested in what you do, Facebook can be great Carl |
|
clayn
Full Member
Posts: 84
|
Post by clayn on Nov 28, 2013 12:39:06 GMT -5
Talking Fish on Turkey Day. I love it!
The problem with most forums is "Experts" who have never kept the fish being discussed. I have kept fish for over 25 years and I don't consider myself an expert. I hope to learn something new every day. Some do consider me an expert on Tanganyikan Cichlids and fish nutrition. I only offer my opinion on message boards when the others involved are reasonable. I have told several people that consider me a fish nutrition expert that you have forgotten more than I will ever know.
I also have a few loyal followers. The key on Facebook is getting the "Cool Kids" in fish circles to like and promote your product. When talking fish nutrition on Facebook I have and will continue to provide links to your articles. Facebook is very limited in content so I use it to introduce them to my website. By providing links to your articles I hope to increase traffic on your website.
I hope you and yours have a blessed Thanksgiving!
Clay
|
|
