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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 11:26:50 GMT -5
Greetings All,
I just got off the phone with a representative from Hikari. Bio Bandage has a five year shelf life. I am looking to buy another 1 oz size of Bio Bandage. I found it is easier to apply from the bottle than those little tiny squeeze bottles (the .08 size). I had purchased two .08 size before buying the 1 oz size from Pet Mountain. I gave the lot number on my bottle to the associate and found it was made in 2005!!! Already two years past best use by date when I purchased it. Yes, my product does work... I have had success with it. The product is just more effective if used within the first five years. She told me to really shake it up good (and I do that).
Pet Mountain "rant":
Pet Mountain is still selling the product - more than likely the product made in 2005. I wrote to them to check with Hikari before they sell any more product that is out of date. I doubt they will do that.....I had a very bad experience with them early in October. I found they were selling ATM Paradigm that was outdated (based on information I received from the manufacturer of the product) and tried to cancel my order before it was shipped. They refused to cancel the order and I had to pay shipping to return it to them. Pet Mountain did credit me for the original shipping to me - which I didn't think they would do. Of course, it cost me more to ship it back to them since I used the US Post Office and paid extra for tracking (rather than Fed Ex/Smart Post which is available to businesses). The postal worker told if if I just sent it back "refused" there was no way to track it.
I lot of products I bought from Pet Mountain in the past never expire (for instance, I got an amazing deal on a large size of Seachem Phos Guard)-- Doesn't matter. They have lost me as a customer. I had made nine purchases from them (from 2011 to 2013) before I learned the truth this fall. I stopped ordering from them in 2013 when many of the products I ordered were "discontinued".... Good thing as they were selling old product then. Pet Mountain would buy up old products that only had lot numbers - assuming customers wouldn't check with the manufacturer. Well... they were right, I didn't check lot numbers and verify until recently.
Carl, if you can get in the 1 oz size, let me know how much it will be (you can reply to one of my emails). I don't need it yet.... just curious. The 1 oz size is harder to find.
Judy D.
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Post by Carl on Nov 5, 2014 13:44:51 GMT -5
Judy; The 1 oz size is no longer listed in the dealers online catalog, likely why PM is selling a product made in 2005. It is MAYBE possible to special the larger size, but this requires a very large volume purchase that may not be worth it if not a good selling item (hence the 2005 date) As you already found out that best used by or expiration dates are simply "Best Used By". The product simply gets less effective with time (there are a few exceptions of course) Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Medication.html#expirationAs for Pet Mountain, frankly there are many other alleged reasons to NEVER do business with this company. I have known them under their wholesale name dating back to the 1970s and I can tell all sorts of less than scrupulous business practices they have undertaken over the years (such as how they game consumers with rebates, and hold retailers hostage with accounts receivables vs. incorrectly shipped items). In my thinking, the fact they are still in business, says a lot about the industry and even the buying public. The industry in particular is well aware of their alleged practices, but looks the other way. IMHO, when one does business with a company such as PM, all we are doing is saying it is OK to continue their behavior Please Read this article for more: www.fish-as-pets.com/2011/05/pet-mountain-review.htmlCarl
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Post by Carl on Nov 5, 2014 14:19:01 GMT -5
I certainly will consider the larger size if this proves to be a popular product, I know the person who runs my aquarium service company told me about the product a few years ago (in a generally positive manner), but when I talked with their distributor during this same business trip to LA, they told me it was a slow seller, so I did not give it another thought until recently (which I should have ). I should note that this distributor is the largest distributor of Pet Products in the USA (listed on the NY SE), so they can often, but not always be a good gauge. This is not to say popularity is why I sell anything, as the Wonder Shell was a slow seller too until we were able to generate popularity for the product ourselves based on our use and testing, however my conversations with my service company indicates that in their view it has limited potential since it only replaces swabs, which few persons are really willing to under take. Carl
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 17:05:13 GMT -5
Hi Carl/All,
Folks will want to try the smaller size first (.08 oz). I bought two of the smaller size before buying the larger one. The small bottles were used up in no time -- and worked - even though I have no idea when those were made (I bought those from Pet Meds, I think). I found the larger one is easier to use. I was always afraid I would lose the little cap on the tiny bottle -- plus it is harder to shake up that little tiny squeeze bottle. I always kept the tiny bottle in the plastic packaging it came in so I wouldn't lose it.
I did find a source that has the 1 oz size - product is guaranteed fresh. Hikari referred me to the company.
If pet stores would carry the product, there were be more demand. Folks just don't know it exists. I don't even remember how I "discovered" it. The online retailers I buy the most product from don't carry it. I have told all stores where I buy fish to try the product as a first treatment for early signs of Columnaris, fin damage, wounds. I have only lost one fish I treated with that for Columnaris - My fault I lost him.... he was allergic to Triple Sulfa (the stronger med I tried). Maybe if I had kept up with Bio Bandage, I would still have him?
I had a new Millennium rainbow get a patch on his side. One treatment of Bio Bandage and there is no sign of bacteria. I didn't even need to put him in the last Methylene Blue bath (I had four fish from the 75 gallon in one bucket -- and the fish from hospital tank in the other).
I got the idea to try it for Columnaris by reading your site (smile).
Judy D.
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Post by Carl on Nov 5, 2014 19:39:14 GMT -5
Even the small bottle can go a long ways. Hikari claims 15 uses per bottle, which comes to only about a quarter (.25 cents) per use. This said, my aquarium maintenance person told me it did not go quite this far, but it it still is an inexpensive product per use Product Resource: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Waterconditioner.html#biobandageCarl
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Post by angelminx on Nov 6, 2014 1:40:10 GMT -5
I saw it listed somewhere once, before I discovered AAP, but don't remember where, and haven't seen it since. If nothing goes wrong with my new computer install this time, I will be able to order some in a little over a week!
Angelminx
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Post by angelminx on Nov 15, 2014 17:54:18 GMT -5
Well, I've got the new computer, but am having some troubles working it. The keyboard keeps locking up (for one thing), so I have to use the on-screen keyboard, which is hard to type on in the normal way, so I have to type with one finger right now. Another thing, I tried to place an order with AAP, but the computer keeps telling me that Firefox (which I've used when ordering before) does not recognize the Paypal site as a safe connection, and that I shouldn't chance using it because, probably, someone is trying to spoof it ! Any suggestions? I really would like to order some BioBandage, as well as a few other things. Angelminx
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Post by Carl on Nov 15, 2014 19:40:33 GMT -5
I have never had this issue, but maybe you need to list this as a safe site.
I do know that for some of the web site template I use, Firefox says they are not safe when I know they are and have listed them as safe and since have never had Firefox remind me of this.
PayPal is a https versus a http website and is as safe as any website can be
Carl
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Post by angelminx on Nov 16, 2014 0:24:51 GMT -5
Thanks, Carl. As soon as I figure out how to do this, and some other things on the new computer, I'll get my order in.
Angelminx
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Post by angelminx on Nov 18, 2014 23:46:28 GMT -5
Carl, I've just spent the last few days trying to get hold of my internet provider , and they said that there is no way to list something as a "safe site"...at least according to the guy I just got hold of. How do you go about doing it. I would just go ahead and "push my order thru", but I want to be safe because I was just sent a new card (because of a possible security breach), and so have to re-register my card with Paypal. Angelminx
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Post by Carl on Nov 19, 2014 9:49:23 GMT -5
This likely is a browser issue. You can try another browser, although I use the big three, I prefer Firefox, but that is because it works best with website templates for me and I do a lot of work there in. See also this forum thread: support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/945755Carl
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Nov 19, 2014 10:03:04 GMT -5
Carl, I've just spent the last few days trying to get hold of my internet provider , and they said that there is no way to list something as a "safe site"...at least according to the guy I just got hold of. How do you go about doing it. I would just go ahead and "push my order thru", but I want to be safe because I was just sent a new card (because of a possible security breach), and so have to re-register my card with Paypal. Angelminx We should try and keep this thread about Hikari Bio Bandage. I believe what you are trying to do angelminx is in the settings/opinion of the internet browser you are using? You can add sites to a "trusted site" section.
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Post by parker002 on Nov 19, 2014 11:16:37 GMT -5
Can we take this discussion over to the Lounge? I don't want to further pollute this thread but I have some advice that I need to convey. I would NOT just add the Paypal site to Trusted without knowing why she's getting a certificate error.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 23:46:49 GMT -5
Another benefit of Bio-Bandage.....Use to treat Ulcers.
I have a tiger barb that has an ulcer on one side of his face. I will be moving him to the hospital tank with the Goyder River rainbow since I am using Melafix and Pimafix in that tank (combo which is more effective for ulcers than my other natural product). He will be easier to catch to apply a tiny bit of Bio Bandage in the ten gallon. He will also get the Methylene Blue bath treatment. There are three tiger barbs all the same size in the 75 gallon.... I just noticed the ulcer today on one of them....Could be an injury. The boys have been sparring quite a bit.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 13:51:02 GMT -5
Well.... This Tiger Barb is smarter than I am... and a whole lot quicker. He isn't contagious, so he is on his own now. I don't have time to mess with trying to catch the little guy. I have tried twice. His ulcer is on one side, so of course, he turns the other side out so I can't easily determine who is who (the three are all the same size and coloration -- I also have three green tiger barbs that school with the orange ones). I would have to take out the rocks and plants to net him... Just isn't worth it. If I lose him, I will pretend he is the one I got for $2.00 (the other two were more expensive). If he survives, maybe he learned his lesson and won't play so hard with the other boys.
At least the rainbows know I am only trying to help them and they are easy to net. Rainbows are highly intelligent (grin).
Cheers,
Judy
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Post by angelminx on Nov 24, 2014 18:03:42 GMT -5
I love your comment about "pretending he was the one for $2.00", Judy. I JUST received my package with the BioBandage. For some reason, on Mondays I rarely get my mail until 4:30 PM or later--and this is BEFORE the Christmas rush! I'm going to try it on my 4 Black Neons when I give them their evening bath. I have a 4th Neon that should be treated, but when I released the others back into the tank, he somehow got mixed in with them...so I guess he's my control subject now (LOL).
Angelminx
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 20:33:30 GMT -5
Greetings Angelminx, So.... Your little Black Neons are still sick....Boo-hoo. Have you tried the Aqua Master Mini food with Pro-biotics (from AAP). All of my little guys love it! Sounds like you spend a lot of time with your fish, too. I had to remind myself today to take my own vitamins (I missed mine for several days). I should get as good of care as they do (giggles). Treating the Neon tetras will tricky as they are so tiny. After you shake up the bottle read good, test it on a piece of paper toweling to make sure it doesn't glob out too much or come out too fast. I accidentally got too much on one of my fish when treating his mouth.... the stuff probably doesn't taste too good.... He seemed fine once I put him back in the water. I did tell him I was sorry. About those tiger barbs....It doesn't seem to matter where I buy them - They just seem to be disease prone. The orange tiger barb that got an internal infection and died a month ago was a local $2.00 fish (I moved it to my ten gallon just so it would be easier to find when it died. She did get better for a while, but died when I was out of town).....I have a green one from the same store (also a $2.00 fish) that is doing great. I have had the more expensive fish get the same illnesses. If they weren't just so much fun to watch, I would give up on buying them. I did "Google" it just to make sure it wasn't just me.... and yep, small barbs can be tricky -other folks have had problems with them, too. Mine aren't too picky what they eat... I have seem them eat the rainbow fish poop. No wonder they get sick! I tell them "Not food... Not food" but do they listen? NO! They also nibbled on my Boesemani rainbow that got slashed buy the featherfin catfish. Shame on them.
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Post by angelminx on Nov 24, 2014 23:16:19 GMT -5
Hey, Judy!
What gets me, is that the instructions for BioBandage state that for fin rot you should clip of the bad part of the fin (is that really a good idea?) and apply the BiobBandage to 1/4" in from the edge of the fin...now how am I supposed to do that with a tiny little tetra?
I've never been into Barbs, Tetras are more my thing (tho I've never been attracted to Serpaes either, despite "public opinion" on them), I love watching the antics of Black Phantoms!
I give my little guys Hikari Micro Wafers quite often, along with Spirulina 20, frozen bloodworms/mysis/etc., tropical community food (I have 2 brands that I interchange), and whatever they snatch of the 2 types of Nature's Ocean Cichlid Flakes that I give my angels. They also sometimes snatch some of the Fluval Shrimp Granules that I have for my little "Crusties". That's one of the problems with fish...they NEVER LISTEN to what you tell them!
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Post by Carl on Nov 25, 2014 10:00:59 GMT -5
What I believe is implied in the instructions is a clipping of only damaged fin, not any good tissue.
I have done this before swabs, dips, & baths too.
Very sharp quality scissors are recommended.
This can be very difficult with small or large fish too IMO
Carl
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 11:55:03 GMT -5
Greetings Angelminx/All,
I have no idea how successful Bio Bandage is for fin rot..... I know you use other medications for that, too. I have only used it for nipped fins (those naughty tiger barbs, you know). I bought my tiny bottle from AAP so I wouldn't have to go up and down stairs with my bigger bottle (It is just so much easier to have all treatments in both rooms -- much handier -- especially when you are an "old lady"... "Now, where did I leave the bottle of (fill in the blank)"....?. I would be afraid to take scissors to my fish. I don't think they would cooperate - and I am just not quick enough. I know you can give them an anesthetic of clove oil, but I would never try that as it would be too easy to use too much and kill them. There is (or was) a good site that told step-by-step how to use clove oil as an anesthetic.
Black Phantoms are one of my favorite tetras (my favorites are the male Congo Tetras)! I wish I could find a good source for them. My first two lived about two years (the third one I bought only lived about a year)....I can't get any new ones to live more than a couple of months (doesn't matter when I buy them). I have one now that is over a year old and I am sure he would like a friend or two.
I am not overly fond of regular Serpae tetras, but really like the long finned ones. I don't buy ones with super long frilly fins as those seem to struggle - and don't live long. I have four in my quarantine tank (permanent inhabitants of that tank). I had moved one over from my 20 gallon extra high expecting it to die (getting dead fish out of the extra high is a chore sometimes. I do have long tongs). When it survived, I bought it some friends. The three friends are almost as big as the original one now so it is hard to tell who is who.
Right now, I have two fish in my 20 gallon that are temporary.... When those two get moved to the 75 gallon, I will look again for Black Phantoms.
(Adding this Edit: The page I found a while back on using clove oil as an anesthetic is no longer online.... There is a lot of good information still available for those who wish to give it a try....Just not me -- smile).
Cheers,
Judy D.
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