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Post by angelminx on Aug 2, 2014 19:58:34 GMT -5
Does anyone have any experience with True Siamese Algae Eaters. I've read both that they should be kept in a school, and that they can't be kept together! So which is it? I don't want to get more than one if I shouldn't. Also, do they really eat BBA? I'm considering getting them and/or Nerite snails. The tank they will be kept in is a 55G South American community tank with angels, tetras, cories, some ghost shrimp, an albino bushynose pleco; and possibly a Ram or two. I don't want to overload the tank, but I can't really afford to get the recommended #/gallons of snails. Will there be any problems with the SAEs and the current occupants (counting the Rams, which aren't in attendance yet)?
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Post by Carl on Aug 3, 2014 17:16:00 GMT -5
I have kept Siamese Algae Eaters before and they are one of the best algae eaters and less aggressive to other tank mates than the much more common Chinese Algae Eater.
As for groupings, I think what you read is both correct from my experience. I know this sound contradictory, but what have found (as with many other fish) is that when just 2 or 3 are kept together, they often show aggression, but when in a true school with many individuals, there is little to no aggression. What I am unclear of is a specific number so as to not have aggression. Generally I have kept groups of 1/2 dozen or more in larger tanks without an issue, otherwise, I would just keep one (Although I have done OK with as little as 3, but not always)
Carl
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Post by angelminx on Aug 3, 2014 17:25:34 GMT -5
Thanks, Carl.
I'm still considering getting some Nerites, but if you think 6 or so SAEs will do okay in a 55G, that is, not overcrowd the tank, then I'll probably get them. Any idea of what their life-span is?
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Post by parker002 on Aug 4, 2014 9:08:00 GMT -5
Make sure you get TRUE SAEs and not False Siamensis. I mistakenly bought two false SAE's and 1) they don't eat algae as well and 2) they got almost 6 inches in length.
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Post by Carl on Aug 4, 2014 9:08:31 GMT -5
The general lifespan of a SAE (Siamese algae eater) is 5-7 years
Carl
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Aug 4, 2014 9:24:49 GMT -5
I have two in the tank for 40 gals. They don't chase each other, they really don't even hang out with each other. They do a pretty good job on the BBA though, but they don't cure it 100%.
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Post by angelminx on Aug 7, 2014 12:52:12 GMT -5
As long as they knock it down some, I'll be happy.
I HAVE been able to remove some manually, by removing leaves (mostly on the Anubias, which is to be expected), but I hate to remove too many. Also, no matter how hard I try, I can't get very much off of the driftwood. I do take it out and use boiling water every once in a while, as well as trying (not very successfully) to "pick"/scrape it off. I hate to do the boiling water thing, because of killing off the nitrifying bacteria, and the good algae, and assorted microfauna which may be on it--which my bristlenose likes to munch on. I don't have too much problem removing any from the lift tubes/return pipe since they're smooth enough to be able to scrape the BBA off.
I just found out yesterday, that the Petco out here is having a 30% off sale on all fish, plants, and inverts on the 15th and 16th of this month, so I'm going to see if they can order any TRUE SAEs--hopefully not too expensive. If not, I'll have to resort to online vendors. I have a flier that they gave me that has a list of all the Petcos that are participating; I'll try to scan it and post it for you all. [This will be the 2nd time I've tried to post something I've scanned--the last time I couldn't get it to work.]
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Post by angelminx on Aug 7, 2014 13:27:33 GMT -5
I scanned the flier a little bit ago and was in the process of trying to size it when I accidentally (?)right-clicked the mouse, so the whole post disappeard before I could check to see if it worked. So I'll try again... ...Well I tried to make it larger (I was able to get it even larger, and back to the "original" size) but it was fuzzy no matter what I did. At least I think I stumbled on how to make my photos larger. If any one is interested in which Petco(s) in any particular state is included, just post the question here, and I'll tell you if that one is participating. Sorry it didn't work so you could check for yourselves.
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Post by angelminx on Aug 7, 2014 13:31:20 GMT -5
When I actually posted the scan, it was easier to read, so I try to do it again and make it larger.
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Post by angelminx on Aug 7, 2014 13:36:21 GMT -5
I was able to really enlarge the scan while editing it, but it doesn't seem to have made a difference, so the same goes: if you have trouble reading it, just ask and I'll tell you. Sorry.
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Aug 7, 2014 17:38:25 GMT -5
none in oregon...oh well. I try to go to the lfs, though sometime I just can't pass up going into petco and coming out with some goodies. as far as the BBA. With some research I've done on the topic, I believe it comes down to the Co2 and light balance of the tank. If there is low Co2, BBA will happen. I have super efficient LEDs (grobeam), so with running them for long time, the plants were using up a lot of Co2, that's when I was getting BBA. I cut the hours I ran my LEDs (6 hrs.) and dosed the same amount of Co2 and it seems to slow if not halt the growth of the BBA. I also increased flow in the tank, cause BBA is a spore that lands on the leaves, then grows. I also try to keep my Nitrates around 10-15. This is the best results I have seen for BBA. I have the SAES and they just have been feeding on what BBA is left and some lite build up on rocks... This is the only algae I kinda have in the tank and really it's next to nothing now...
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Post by angelminx on Aug 8, 2014 1:11:56 GMT -5
Your tank really looks good.
Can't afford to add CO2, and am counting the days "till Christmas" when I'm hoping to get my LEDs. In the meantime, I've just got my Excel to work with. Should I "up" the dose? I add 1 capful/5 ml per day for the 55G. I try to keep my Nitrates the same.
One thing I'm curious about: if I remember correctly, more red-spectrum light is needed to combat cyanobacteria, and more blue-spectrum light to fight BBA; is the balance of the LEDs (Growbeam and AquaBar) more in the middle, or more towards one spectrum or the other? Again, just curious since they are great for CB problems and (?)also BBA. Do the low-light plants (Anubias and Crypts) use much more CO2 with them? With the lights I have now, I do a 10-hour/14-hour lights on/off schedule, and that's probably what I'll stick with with the LEDs--unless Carl or someone else suggests something better.
As to the water flow/current in the tank, how do you use Methylene Blue to "trace" the current/speed? How much do you use?
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Aug 8, 2014 9:29:31 GMT -5
Your tank really looks good. Can't afford to add CO2, and am counting the days "till Christmas" when I'm hoping to get my LEDs. In the meantime, I've just got my Excel to work with. Should I "up" the dose? I add 1 capful/5 ml per day for the 55G. I try to keep my Nitrates the same. One thing I'm curious about: if I remember correctly, more red-spectrum light is needed to combat cyanobacteria, and more blue-spectrum light to fight BBA; is the balance of the LEDs (Growbeam and AquaBar) more in the middle, or more towards one spectrum or the other? Again, just curious since they are great for CB problems and (?)also BBA. Do the low-light plants (Anubias and Crypts) use much more CO2 with them? With the lights I have now, I do a 10-hour/14-hour lights on/off schedule, and that's probably what I'll stick with with the LEDs--unless Carl or someone else suggests something better. As to the water flow/current in the tank, how do you use Methylene Blue to "trace" the current/speed? How much do you use? All I'm using too is Excel. No need for injected Co2, unless I wanted fast growth. I'm just looking for steady growth. I use one capful for my 40 gal. I'll double the dose when I do a larger water change or miss a day from going out of town. When I had a BBA problem, I doubled the dose for like a week. The grobeam focuses on the two photosynthetic responses of a plant, which one is towards the blues and one is towards the red. The idea is to make the plants thrive so they use up all the nurts. and out compete the algae. I'm not to sure which side of the spectrum fights off BBA for sure, but having a proper spectrum, with as little yellows as possible is what you want to beat algae. If you run the LEDs for 10-14 hrs a day, you are going to want to dose more carbon. All that light will make the plants use up the Co2, then thats how you will get BBA. That's why I went down to 6 hrs, just when I get home in the evening. All of the plants will use more Co2. If they are a thick leaf, slow growing plant... There is a likeness that the LEDs will burn the plant. Watch for the leafs turning clear and falling apart. That means they are getting to much light. All you have to do to trace with MB is add a drop or two or three into the water column and see where it flows. I have a power head pump sitting on a filter max, used just for the flow. It's like 250 gph. I can see the flow...
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Post by angelminx on Aug 8, 2014 16:11:53 GMT -5
How well does splitting the lighting time period up work (I've heard of people doing that before)? I was wondering, since the timer can be adjusted to do that, or I could always just plug the lights manually into a separate socket during cleaning, then when I'm done plug it back into the timer. The shorter lighting period is after I get the LEDs I assume?
I'll try adding an ocassional double dose of Excel, and see what happens. I have always been leary about adding more since the 1st bottle I ever used (around a year or so ago) seemed to cause the fish to start gasping for oxygen right after I would add it--no problems noticed with this bottle, it may have just been coincidence (caused by something else entirely) that that would happen everytime with the old bottle; I went quite a few months before I broke down and bought another bottle of Excel. I wish I could find the 2 liter bottle of Trace, the largest I can find is the 500ml bottle, which is wierd, since the dose is 3X as much (per dosing) as Flourish.
BTW, I talked to the girl at my Petco that does the fish orders, and she tried, but couldn't order any SAEs for me. There was a listing under Assorted Algae Eaters, so she's going to try that, but I have a feeling it's probably regular and albino Chinese algae eaters--I don't know why EVERYONE insists on selling THEM!! Oh. well, I guess I'll have to wait till Sept. or Oct. when I place my online plant order. There's NO plant selection around here either.
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Aug 8, 2014 19:02:05 GMT -5
How well does splitting the lighting time period up work (I've heard of people doing that before)? I was wondering, since the timer can be adjusted to do that, or I could always just plug the lights manually into a separate socket during cleaning, then when I'm done plug it back into the timer. The shorter lighting period is after I get the LEDs I assume? I'll try adding an ocassional double dose of Excel, and see what happens. I have always been leary about adding more since the 1st bottle I ever used (around a year or so ago) seemed to cause the fish to start gasping for oxygen right after I would add it--no problems noticed with this bottle, it may have just been coincidence (caused by something else entirely) that that would happen everytime with the old bottle; I went quite a few months before I broke down and bought another bottle of Excel. I wish I could find the 2 liter bottle of Trace, the largest I can find is the 500ml bottle, which is wierd, since the dose is 3X as much (per dosing) as Flourish. BTW, I talked to the girl at my Petco that does the fish orders, and she tried, but couldn't order any SAEs for me. There was a listing under Assorted Algae Eaters, so she's going to try that, but I have a feeling it's probably regular and albino Chinese algae eaters--I don't know why EVERYONE insists on selling THEM!! Oh. well, I guess I'll have to wait till Sept. or Oct. when I place my online plant order. There's NO plant selection around here either. If I'm double dosing, I make sure I put oxy. in at night. I don't run airstones, cause they ware off Co2 during the day. But at night, I will made good oxy flow. If you are going to double dose, do it for a while straight, then stop. Don't go off an on, cause this fluctuation can cause BBA too. You can split the time the lights are one, just don't run them so long they ware off to much Co2. 6 hours is what I do for high power LEDs. Lots of others would be around 10 hours. You can try cutting you lights if you think it will help the problem. It's either you have too much light right now, or not enough Co2. The flow is a consideration too.
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Post by angelminx on Aug 18, 2014 17:47:33 GMT -5
I talked to Peyton, the girl that does the fish orders at my Petco, and she double checked for me. When I went on the Segrest website again, I found the SAEs listed as Siamese Flying Foxes (I checked for the scientific name), so I told her about this Saturday and she got back to me today. They do have them listed as a regular item (by their normal supplier--they only do supplemental orders from Segrest), I'm planning on getting 6, so she's going to order extras incase I want more. Now, to just get the correct fish.
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Post by parker002 on Aug 25, 2014 9:11:36 GMT -5
Flying Foxes are not true SAE's. www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/I'm not trying to be mean or anything but I would make ABSOLUTELY certain you are getting true SAE's. I didn't know anything about them when I bought mine and ended up with fish that were 1) larger than I wanted in the end 2) more aggressive than I wanted and 3) not effective AT ALL at eating algae There's only two fish I've found to be particularly diligent at eating algae - SAE's and otocinclus catfish. Every other "algae eater" I've seen ends up eating left over fish food because it's much easier to get.
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Post by angelminx on Aug 25, 2014 16:10:14 GMT -5
I'm taking one of my identification guides with me when I go to get them so I can compare the ones they get with the two different types shown in the book--SAE and Flying Fox. I'm hoping I'll hear something tomorrow, since that's when they get their main fish deliveries.
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Post by parker002 on Aug 26, 2014 8:46:11 GMT -5
Check out that link to the Krib. There's a 3rd variety and it's really the one you want to watch out for.
SAEs and Flying Foxes have a lateral black stripe that extends all the way THROUGH the tail. The False Siamensis' black stripe only extends TO the tail.
You definitely do not want the False Siamensis (that's what I have) but fortunately, it's the easiest to differentiate from the other two...
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Aug 27, 2014 9:26:49 GMT -5
Interesting enough, my rainbow sharks do a great job on algae. There's nothing for any fish anymore, between the SAE and sharks.
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