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Post by nathanp2007 on Oct 26, 2008 0:29:13 GMT -5
Typically i would just let the bag warm to the temp of the tank and net the fish in, i have before done the add water to the bag scenario, but then heard it did nothing, but in reading what you said, sounds like i should do it from now on. If my new tetras die in this coming week or w/e then yeah i agree with what your saying. But what im saying is the tetras/guppies that have been dieing one by one since i got the tank, typically taking a week or 2 to get sick then die one at a time, doesnt happen right when i add them. The tetra that died today was a full grown one that has been in my tank for...6 months maybe, and id say one at a time iv had 5 tetras die. And none of my guppies (10) have lived. They died faster tho cause they arent as hearty as tetras.
I bought my tank, let it run for a month, then i bought over the course of a month, like 5 tetras i think. then 5 guppies. a few months later (and not at the same time) i bought 5 more tetras and 5 sunrise guppies (prettiest fish ever..wish i could have them and they not die) And then slowly like i said, taking a week or more for one to die, they died off. Sometimes all being fine for a few weeks but then one would get sick (nipped fin..1 or 2 had cotton fin) etc...sometimes putting in melafix or pimafix would extend how long they lived, but they still eventually died...even a hearty female betta (typically very tuff) died after a month..which shocked me. One fish that has survived it all with no issues since the second store trip (when i bought the second batch of fish) has been my siamese algae eater. Only time it got week is when i didnt feed it for a while on accident, it lost color in its black stripe, but i then fed it, and it was back and the stripe was black again.
To be honest, its not like i HATE losing the fish cause they cost money..40 bucks of fish isnt a huge deal to me. I hate losing the fish cause thats the whole point of the tank..i just wish i had a tank that was stable and i could enjoy the beauty of it, and not worry about searching my tank to find dead ones. Its kinda funny cause i have gotten my aunt and sister into having fish (they got a 10 gal tank each) yet none of us...even me the more experienced person, can get our fish to STAY alive. What i hate most though is that i have to stick with the tetras...they are pretty..but like i said be4, the sunrise i wish i could have tons of..but guppies died fast and hard on me.
-I dont over feed...i do cleanings(vaccumm the gravel and take out 25% of the water) every saturday. -I put the de-clorinator in the new water, and add it to the tank. -I keep the tank out of the sun, my light i know isnt great, but until someone shows me a link for a fish light that will fit my tank, be covered so it shines into the tank (not bulbs pointed at the tank) and isnt over 70 bucks...il be keeping the one that came with my tank -The light is never on for more than 8 hours a day. -I dont add more than 5 fish to my tank ever at a time, and never added fish sooner than 2 weeks after i have added some -I dont add salt to my tank, havent been sure how to do it (how much, what salt) and if it would help all my fish, or just some and agitate others. -I have a sponge filter that i clean once every 3 weeks. -I change the filter in the marineland pengiun every month -I feed the tetras (and when i had guppies) aquatrol Spirulina 20 and the algae eater Top Fin algae thins
I dont know if theres anything else to tell you..thats about ALL the info thats ever happened in my life involving aquariums.
Is it really this hard to keep fish from dieing? or am i doing something wrong?
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Post by goldenpuon on Oct 26, 2008 11:09:52 GMT -5
It does sound like you are taking very good care of your fish. Some things to improve on (though I see youare trying very hard) are properly acclimating them to the water. This is especially important with guppies I've found. I breed guppies and they seem to get sick almost every time something goes just a little wrong. For example, once I had 3 guppies I added to a 2 1/2 gallon and I hadn't notcied that they were starting to show sickness in their other tank. They ended up getting cotton wool, a gill parasite, and fin rot all becuase of their new environment plus I didn't get them adjsutyed to the water properly. All but 1 survived. Also, on other occasion, like right now, the PH in my guppy tank dipped a little too low so 1 of my guppies got a very slow processing case of fin rot. I find guppies to be very fragile. The key is to keep their PH high, around 7.4 or higher which actually doesn't really go well with tetras that typically like soft water (PH of around 6.8). Last, you said you were feeding your guppies and tetras Aquatrol Spirulina 20 alone. While this is a GREAT food, it's only real ingredient is spirulina so even though feeding them that is good, feeding only that makes their diet imbalanced. Getting them a tropical flake food and feeding them that as well will help. See, fish need a balanced diet like us to be healthy. A tropical flake food will have a mix of ingredients so that will probably help. Of course feeding spirulina as a treat every couple days isn't a bad idea either. Everytime else you are doing seems just fine. Hope that helps!
Renee
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Post by Carl on Oct 27, 2008 11:31:16 GMT -5
-I dont over feed...i do cleanings(vaccumm the gravel and take out 25% of the water) every saturday. -I put the de-clorinator in the new water, and add it to the tank. -I keep the tank out of the sun, my light i know isnt great, but until someone shows me a link for a fish light that will fit my tank, be covered so it shines into the tank (not bulbs pointed at the tank) and isnt over 70 bucks...il be keeping the one that came with my tank -The light is never on for more than 8 hours a day. I generally have my lights on for 12 hours, although 8 hours is likely not a problem This is good The use of salt is often controversial which it should not be. I would definitely use salt at a rate of 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons up to 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons. Please see this article for more: Aquarium Answers; SaltI recommend rinsing in tank or de-chlorinated water your sponge filter every two to four weeks. Not disagree with other's comments, but a Sponge Filter can be an excellent filter for your tank, providing adequate size and care. I have run MANY studies/tests and have seen them out perform MANY other filters. The Hydro Sponge #5 or #5 PRO can be excellent filters (I have used these as the sole filters in 100 gallon tanks/systems) Another consideration is the Internal Wet/Dry that utilizes Sponge Filtration and are probably one of the most under rated filters currently on the market. This is generally fine I would diversify your fish' diet with FD or Frozen Brine Shrimp/Worms and other foods such as HBH Tropical, Omega, etc. This is a subjective aquarium where I am sure we may be missing something here. Often over the years I would go out to a clients home/office that stated similar problems to you and find a problem that was over looked or would make subtle changes that made a world of difference. As I noted in another thread you posted, try and follow as many steps as possible in the Aquarium Disease Prevention article as possible (especially chemistry, UV Sterilization), as I stand by this article more than almost any other I have written since i have so much proof of the results over the years: Aquarium Disease PreventiionSorry to differ with you on this Renee, but Spirulina has Whole Fish meal as its number three ingredient, HOWEVER you are correct in that this should NOT be the sole diet for most any fish. Carl
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Post by goldenpuon on Oct 27, 2008 15:39:41 GMT -5
Sorry, Carl. I must have not looked at my spirulina food container. I didn't realize fish meal was part of it. I do know however that there is a lot of spirulina algae in it as an ingredient.
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Post by Carl on Oct 27, 2008 16:53:39 GMT -5
Sorry, Carl. I must have not looked at my spirulina food container. I didn't realize fish meal was part of it. I do know however that there is a lot of spirulina algae in it as an ingredient. Yes, it has 20% Spirulina which along with one other product that I know of, is the highest among fish foods. Please do not take my correction as criticism, you are great the way you jump in help others, I know that I too make mistakes (Eve caught me on a big one a few weeks ago) Carl
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Post by goldenpuon on Oct 27, 2008 17:01:52 GMT -5
No problem. I didn't take it as criticisim. Now I just have to go look at my Spirulina fish food ingredients. lol
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Post by bikeguy33 on Oct 27, 2008 17:04:30 GMT -5
well....it seems all is covered. what sprang into my melon tho, how do you clean your glass, plants ornements etc. seems everything else was covered. also......a small test kit would also be a great idea.....
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Post by goldenpuon on Oct 27, 2008 17:21:56 GMT -5
Another question that came to mind is where are you getting your fish? Fish from Walmart and some chain Petstores seem to be of bad quality because when the fish arrive at the store, a lot of the time they are diseased. If you see any fish with ailments yours have or if there are a lot of dead fish or ones gasping at the surface in a petstore or the tank you don't want to get any from there. Signs of healthy fish are bright colors, skin and gills free of parasites, signs of disease, or injury, fins held outward (not held close to the body) and for tetras high activity,
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Post by bikeguy33 on Oct 27, 2008 17:28:38 GMT -5
Very good call Renee.....although it seems an obvious concern.....you were the only one to think of it. very good and possible call on that one
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Post by Carl on Oct 27, 2008 18:06:52 GMT -5
I think BOTH bikeguy (Bill) and Renee raised a couple of good questions.
As to Bill's point, it is important to gave dedicated cleaning utensils that are ONLY used for the aquarium (there may be more to this point, but I will leave this to Bill)
As to Renee's point; I have found that some sources of livestock (fish) are inherently poor as they have fish that are poorly handled (ammonia poisoning from poor handling can cause permanent damage, especially if not treated promptly upon arrival). Also many fish suppliers have stock that are constantly exposed to disease pathogens that can then be transferred to other fish, even if the fish carrying the "bug" does not immediately show signs of problems.
Carl
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Post by nathanp2007 on Oct 27, 2008 19:38:05 GMT -5
I use dedicated cleaning utensils. Ya i would perfer to not buy fish from Petsmart, rarely from petco, but they are the only ones with a good stock and somewhat reliable. I posted on craigslist to ask if anyone knows of any privately owned fish stores that are reliable and one was mentioned but i found out from some other people its not reliable, they only fed their fish BWorms most of the time.
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Post by goldenpuon on Oct 28, 2008 4:23:35 GMT -5
That's a good idea. Getting a hold of stores with good quality fish will help a lot! I've found specialty fish stores to have some good fish. I find that most of the time they are family run.
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Post by Carl on Oct 28, 2008 10:52:54 GMT -5
I use dedicated cleaning utensils. Ya i would perfer to not buy fish from Petsmart, rarely from petco, but they are the only ones with a good stock and somewhat reliable. I posted on craigslist to ask if anyone knows of any privately owned fish stores that are reliable and one was mentioned but i found out from some other people its not reliable, they only fed their fish BWorms most of the time. Do you perform any kind of quarantine or bath on on your fish before addition? This is VERY important as per my exerience! I also will often use Medicated Wonder Shells EVERY time I added to new fish to tanks that have had "bad histories" Carl
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Post by nathanp2007 on Oct 28, 2008 13:23:21 GMT -5
Nah i didnt like i said be4 i dont have a spare tank or the room for a quarantine, but i should do a bath be4 i add new fish. Am i correct in assuming the bath you speak of is having the new fish be in a Meth-Blue bath?
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Post by goldenpuon on Oct 28, 2008 15:13:49 GMT -5
Yes, you don't have the fish take a bath in pure Methyline Blue but you put the fish in a container, say 2 quarts and add some MB to that. Also, quarintine is recommended before you add new fish to the main tank because if they are carrying something, then it won't spread to the main fish population of your main tank. Quarintine can save a lot of time and work especially if you just have to treat a 5 gallon with medication instead of a 40 and don't have to replace your whole fish population if you get a new fish that comes down with something.
Just a suggestion.
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Post by nathanp2007 on Oct 28, 2008 15:33:44 GMT -5
no i know, just dont have the space anywhere for another tank. I can do baths if that involes a 5 gal bucket and not needing a heater and filter (cause the fish are in there so short)..but if more is needed than that, i cant do it.
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Post by goldenpuon on Oct 28, 2008 16:02:06 GMT -5
Bathes will work for curing the fish you have now. I'm not sure if it is a good idea to give brand new fish bathes. Carl will have to clarify on that. I can understand that you do not have the room as I have been in similar situations. Hopefully the fish you get in the future will not be sick. Good lcuk with your tank!
Renee
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Post by bikeguy33 on Oct 28, 2008 18:39:16 GMT -5
a bath is different from a quarentine. a quarentine is for an extended period of time. for a new fish an MB bath can be as simple as a few drops in the bag the fish comes in while it is floating.....then even another drop or 2 as you start adding the tank water to the bag. nothing but a clean container is needed for a bath and I recommend it with any new fish. also....1 day i will post something on a marine bath for fresh water fish and a fresh water bath for a salt water fish.(unless Carl has got an article already written)
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Post by Carl on Oct 28, 2008 19:28:52 GMT -5
a bath is different from a quarentine. a quarentine is for an extended period of time. for a new fish an MB bath can be as simple as a few drops in the bag the fish comes in while it is floating.....then even another drop or 2 as you start adding the tank water to the bag. nothing but a clean container is needed for a bath and I recommend it with any new fish. also....1 day i will post something on a marine bath for fresh water fish and a fresh water bath for a salt water fish.(unless Carl has got an article already written) I second what Bill just stated. I have more often used a bath or dip rather than quarantine for new fish I have added to my clients aquariums or even my own as quarantine tanks for new arrival was or is not often practical. I do have this in my Aquarium Disease Prevention article, which I strongly recommend reading, as these steps when followed in there entirety will vastly lower your incidence of disease. Section #9 deals with new fish, baths, dips, quarantines, etc. Carl
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