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Post by parker002 on Apr 12, 2014 10:30:08 GMT -5
Sorry for calling you out but wanted to make sure you saw this.
I'm getting ready to do my spring pond cleaning and I'm out of my Jungle Parasite tabs that I use as a yearly preventative. They are labeled "Jungle Pond Fizz Tabs: Parasite Treatment" and they contain metro, prazi, trichlorfon, and diflubenzuron.
From what I am seeing, it appears Jungle no longer makes them. The only thing I can find is Jungle Fizz Tabs: Oxy, which contains Potassium Permanganate as the active ingredient.
My concern is that these tabs would not have the same preventative effect (more of a spot treatment) and the rapid oxidation, given the amount of DOC in my pond, could adversely affect the fish.
Do you have any advice?
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Apr 12, 2014 16:19:31 GMT -5
Sorry for calling you out but wanted to make sure you saw this. I'm getting ready to do my spring pond cleaning and I'm out of my Jungle Parasite tabs that I use as a yearly preventative. They are labeled "Jungle Pond Fizz Tabs: Parasite Treatment" and they contain metro, prazi, trichlorfon, and diflubenzuron. From what I am seeing, it appears Jungle no longer makes them. The only thing I can find is Jungle Fizz Tabs: Oxy, which contains Potassium Permanganate as the active ingredient. My concern is that these tabs would not have the same preventative effect (more of a spot treatment) and the rapid oxidation, given the amount of DOC in my pond, could adversely affect the fish. Do you have any advice? Hey Parker, Carl is out on a vacation til Monday and I'm sorry to say, I'm not sure enough to give you an answer. I do know the Jungle Clear Water we have is Potassium Permanganate as well and we don't have the fizz tabs. Here is what Carl has written on Potassium Permanganate. www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication3.html#potassium_permangMaybe it could give you an answer rather it's what your looking for or not. I'm sure Carl will chime in as soon as he gets home.
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Post by parker002 on Apr 12, 2014 18:02:52 GMT -5
It's not urgent. I can wait until he gets back. Thanks for letting me know though!
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Post by Carl on Apr 14, 2014 14:05:00 GMT -5
I probably would not use the Potassium Permanganate based product for what you are looking to do. Not that PP does not have anti-parasite properties, as it does, especially for gill flukes, but rather since it is primarily a strong oxidizer, its main use in a pond would be for help in water clarity due to excess organic build up. Also since you have a Veggie filter, I would also find that excess organics usually is not a problem . Generally I use Potassium Permanganate for ponds with little bio filtration that have organic mulm of DOC issues or in a relatively sterile pond with Flukes issues. Jungle was bought out by Tetra and these products are now with the Tetra label Example of the Aquarium version: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Waterconditioner.html#parasiteclearI checked with our distributor and they only show the aquarium version now available. This does not mean the pond version is no longer made, but if so, I am not sure where to find it. I would consider the Hikari version that has praziquantel: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Waterconditioner.html#praziproThere is also a larger package, but we do not currently sell it as although a good/excellent product and our 'sister' maintenance company has used it with good success, we have yet to sell a single bottle BTW; It was only a weekend off, not a vacation (though I wish), my first even day off since December Carl
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Post by parker002 on Apr 14, 2014 15:18:35 GMT -5
Have you ever used Seachem Pond HealthGuard?
It looks like it might be specifically a disease preventative so would actually fit my needs better. Either that or I might just stop doing the yearly dosing...
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Post by Carl on Apr 14, 2014 17:50:50 GMT -5
Have you ever used Seachem Pond HealthGuard? It looks like it might be specifically a disease preventative so would actually fit my needs better. Either that or I might just stop doing the yearly dosing... I have not used and honestly, I have to admit, I have not even heard of this product by SeaChem, even though I use a lot of their products. It likely is newer, although in my discussions with my aquarium & pond maintenance friends this product has never been mentioned Here is some info that I dug up: www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/PondHealthGuard.html& en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GlutaraldehydeConsidering some of the toxic side affects and possible interactions, I would certainly like to hear more from other's use before I could recommend the product Carl
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Post by parker002 on Apr 14, 2014 19:06:37 GMT -5
So should I just cease the preventative treatment?
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Post by Carl on Apr 15, 2014 10:57:38 GMT -5
So should I just cease the preventative treatment? If you have not added any fish, nor had any accidental flow of debris into the pond, such as from a heavy rainstorm, I would say not to use any preventative. Pimafix could be used if you had some debris that may have added unwanted bacteria (a water change is in order) For parasite prevention, the before mentioned PraziPro is excellent for multi cell parasites such as Flukes. While many think of Cupramine as a marine aquarium treatment, Cupramine is an excellent & economical preventative for Ich, Velvet, and even fungus. One bottle treats up to 2500 gallons for only about $15 Source: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Seachem.html#cupramineCarl
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Post by parker002 on Apr 15, 2014 12:16:10 GMT -5
Yeah, it's windy here pretty much every day of the year and we just finished our snow melt with 2 inches of rain on Saturday (the pond actually overflowed).
Needless to say, we have A LOT of debris in the pond right now (and most of the time actually). We also have birds that use the pond, so there's fecal contamination.
My biggest reason for using the Jungle product was that it was basically a "catch all". I'm not seeing anything on the market (at least not pond strength/volume) that is comparable.
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Post by Carl on Apr 15, 2014 14:36:36 GMT -5
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Post by parker002 on Apr 15, 2014 14:55:04 GMT -5
Yeah, I never thought about that. I put in the TMC 25W UV to prevent algae blooms but I'm running it off of a 2000gph pump, which means I'm running about 80gph/watt. If I put in a check valve and cut the flow by 2/3, that would probably be a better preventative than adding chemicals to the pond.
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Post by Carl on Apr 15, 2014 15:45:29 GMT -5
Considering head pressure, your 2000 gph pump is likely running at most at 1500 gph. If you cut flow then by about 1/2 to 2/3 you should be right at the number you need for level 1 sterilization which would be about 750 gph >
Carl
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Post by parker002 on Apr 15, 2014 16:17:41 GMT -5
I could also drop in a 1000gph pump. I have one sitting in the garage doing nothing.
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Post by Carl on Apr 16, 2014 8:58:56 GMT -5
I could also drop in a 1000gph pump. I have one sitting in the garage doing nothing. That is another way to do it Carl
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Post by parker002 on Oct 6, 2014 10:08:31 GMT -5
Sorry to dredge up an old thread but I need to find a replacement to this medication.
I winterized the pond yesterday and I've never seen so many small leeches. I'm considering just dosing the pond with Copper since I know it will kill pretty much any and all invertebrates. I don't think it will hurt my plants in the right dosage and other than my fish, the plants are the only things that need to live through it.
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Post by Carl on Oct 6, 2014 11:12:09 GMT -5
I think copper in the optimum dose would be a good idea. Since the plants are slowing down, they would likely not uptake much of the copper anyway As a side note I have used copper in my client ponds in So. California, where the plants do not cease growth like they would in Iowa, and all I observed was some browning of delicate lilies. The bog plants did not show any ill effects whatsoever. Cupramine by SeaChem is a form of ionic copper that is less toxic and is also not overly stable unlike Mardel's Coppersafe, which is highly stable, but also difficult to remove from an aquarium or pond because of this. So this copper would make a good choice if toxic side affects are worrisome. Of course, SeaChem's Cupramine has its weakness too and that is because it is less stable (at least based on my experiments, not SeaChem claims), organics in the pond can quickly overwhelm it, so use with a test kit is a must to maintain a therapeutic level of .20-.25 ppm Product Resource: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Seachem.html#cupramineCarl
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2014 12:22:07 GMT -5
Hi Carl/All,
I am just being "annoying" here..... Microbe Lift makes pond versions of Artemiss and Herbtana (different names though). The products are in higher concentration to treat larger volume of water. I know Pet Solutions sells the pond versions of the all natural treatments. The all natural treatments sure would be safer for the environment (grin). Since I have not used these, I won't post more about them.
Carl, thanks for the cute coffee cup image... Now I need to go fill up my cup. Oh, the power of suggestion.
Judy D
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Post by parker002 on Oct 6, 2014 12:54:41 GMT -5
I normally use herbal remedies in cases where I'm trying to treat a disease without harming invertebrates like shrimp or snails.
In this case, I'm wanting the "nuclear" approach, so I'm not really interested in paying for herbal remedies when a cheap copper/cupramine solution would do just fine.
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Post by parker002 on Oct 9, 2014 12:09:45 GMT -5
Hey Carl, I got my Cupramine today.
How do I dose for a 1300G pond? It says 1 bottle treats 1250G. It also says to dose full strength first day and then dose half strength (for freshwater) after 48 hours. At 1mL per 10.5G, that would mean a full initial dose is about 125mL.
Should I put in half a bottle (125mL) and then add half of the remaining (25% of the total bottle, 62.5mL) after 48 hours?
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Post by Carl on Oct 9, 2014 12:27:01 GMT -5
I would use half the bottle followed by the other 1/2 48 hours later (if I am correctly understanding your question)
Before the first dose, cleaning any sludge you can out of your pond and lowering the water level a little so as to bring your pond to 1250 gallons would help since Cupramine is quickly neutralized when high amounts of organics are present, which is generally the case in most ponds
Carl
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