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Post by parker002 on Sept 16, 2011 21:04:11 GMT -5
I've got the bottles made and ready to go, I just need to make the mix! But this isn't about the reaction bottle - there's a million pages out there with instructions on how to make them. I quickly realized that the biggest problem with using the yeast method was diffusing the CO2. I wasn't interested in the possible damage to my filters by running the CO2 into the intakes. I didn't want to put a power head in my tank. Air stones reportedly don't create fine enough bubbles and limewood clogs up rather quickly. For me, it was looking like a glass/ceramic diffuser would be best but there were mixed reviews out there - DIY CO2 apparently doesn't create enough pressure to reliably utilize these types of diffusers. I was hesitant to pay $15 or more to get a glass diffuser if it wasn't guaranteed to work. Plus, they're fragile. It was at that point that I started finding threads from people using bamboo chopsticks and CIGARETTE FILTERS. Now, I don't know too many smokers that would appreciate filters missing from their smokes and I wasn't keen on the idea of tobacco or other contaminants possibly entering my tank. So I went to the smoke shop and lo and behold, they sell pre-made cigarettes - just add tobacco. For $3, I was able to buy 100 CO2 diffusers for my DIY setup!  I hope to have it all up and running tomorrow and I will post some pics but the size of the bubbles is amazing. Very, very small, almost a mist. |
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Post by babygeige on Sept 17, 2011 8:36:07 GMT -5
Wow, that sounds cool. I would definitely love to see some pics of that. I have been having the same problem with diffusing co2. I do have a ceramic airstone, but it doesn't seem to work very well. The bubbles look like they are coming out of the top of the stone where the plastic meets the ceramic. It's probably because of the pressure. I found a small ceramic glass diffuser on ebay for $5 with free shipping the other day and I ordered one. For $5, I figured I'll give it a shot. But I don't have high expectations.
I don't know too much about cigarettes, but won't the filter get soggy or something? Or are these made of plastic?
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Post by Carl on Sept 17, 2011 11:42:49 GMT -5
Looking forward to your results. I personally have not had unreasonable results with limewood air stones clogging too fast (generally 2 months which I do not find unreasonable) Another method I have used is a ceramic stone or limewood (I have not had as good of results with the ceramic stone by itself, for just the reasons babygeige stated), then placed under a sponge filter turned upside down (and not connected to an air pump). This acts to further slowly dissipate the CO2 Carl |
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Post by parker002 on Sept 17, 2011 17:10:53 GMT -5
I will post some pics just as soon as I get bubbles. I just mixed everything up about an hour ago. I will also post some more details of my methods. For example, I found a nice brass hose fitting for my lid so I didn't have to use sealant and I used brewer's yeast because it should hold up better when the mixture starts to produce alcohol.
The cigarette filters do get soggy but they're made from a combination of cotton fiber and fiberglass so they don't "clump". You should see what they do hooked up to an air pump.
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Post by goldenpuon on Sept 17, 2011 22:18:27 GMT -5
Very nice idea/technique Parker! I hope it works out well for you.  On a lighter note, I have bought things for my fish (e.g. tupaware, yarn, plastic bins, etc) and told salespeople I was buying it for my fish and got many odd looks. I do wonder what a salesperson (and mother) would do/say if I bought cigarette filters and told them I was buying them for my fish. One thing I have picked up as a fishkeeper is that it can call for creativity and that you will find plenty of useful fish supplies that are never sold in a pet store. Renee |
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Post by parker002 on Sept 18, 2011 9:04:04 GMT -5
OK, so a couple of issues to start off... Gayelorde Hauser brand Brewers Yeast is a NUTRITIONAL SUPPLEMENT. No matter what the temperature of your water or the amount of sugar you add, it won't activate. I used brass fittings thinking I could mimic the mechanical seals created by these bulkhead fittings. One of the bottles leaked and the other one didn't. For now, I have one of them sealed by drilling a small diameter hole and pulling the hose through it (still no silicone sealant required). |
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Post by parker002 on Sept 18, 2011 11:09:04 GMT -5
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Post by Carl on Sept 18, 2011 12:44:47 GMT -5
Looking at your diffusers, you have a very good flow of CO2 for a simple DIY yeast system.
Looking good!
Carl
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Post by parker002 on Sept 18, 2011 13:14:26 GMT -5
The flow rate right now is almost too good - a lot of bubbles are making it to the surface. What do you think of the bubble size? I don't have any first-hand experience but to me they don't look any larger than the pics I see online of glass/ceramic or limewood diffusers. I put them underneath the outflows in both tanks - I see quite a few bubbles being recirculated sideways and downwards, so that should help. I just didn't feel good about putting them near the intakes with all the stuff I've read about introducing air into a filter impeller and the problems it can cause.
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Post by Carl on Sept 18, 2011 15:22:03 GMT -5
The biggest problem of the CO2 bubble stream near intakes is NOT what I read in many places, (gas in filter, filter burping, etc.) rather it is the lowering of oxygen content and thus poor aerobic bio filtration. Placing CO2 bubble streams as close to outflows is best so as to give as much time for the CO2 to be absorbed into the water column. Often placing decorations around a CO2 bubble stream will allow for some trapping of CO2 for even more time of absorption into the water column. This said, all that really matters is achieving the correct CO2 level in your aquarium, see this chart from my planted aquarium article: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/images/graphics/co2chart.jpgCarl |
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Post by parker002 on Sept 19, 2011 11:01:56 GMT -5
I never considered that but it makes sense - pumping CO2 into your bio-filter might not be a good idea.
So how long should it take for me to start seeing CO2 absorption? I've been live for about 36 hours now and kH in both tanks is still at or above 300ppm (17dkH or thereabouts). pH on the small tank is around 8 while the pH on the 55G is around 7.8.
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Post by Carl on Sept 19, 2011 18:29:06 GMT -5
Your tanks are quite low (& I am not sure why, other than the CO2 is either inadequate or it is being quickly "scrubbed off" such as by agitation or bio filtration.
Assuming little or no phosphates (as the equation I am using does not take into account Phosphates present in the water), I am showing 5 ppm CO2 for your larger tank and slightly higher for the smaller one.
This is based on this flawed formula (flawed because it does not account for phosphates that may or may not be present in the aquarium):
CO2 (in ppm) = 3 * KH * 10( 7-pH )
I would look for pearling too on the plants, assuming adequate lighting too, finally simply look for new bright green leaves sprouting more quickly than before.
I hope I made sense?
Carl
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Post by parker002 on Sept 20, 2011 7:19:57 GMT -5
Yeah, yesterday I was seeing SOME pearling but not much. My hygrophilia difformis is sprouting new, bright green growth quite rapidly but I kind of expected that, even without CO2. Her rose sword looks great as does her cabomba, much better since starting the CO2.
That being said, last night when I went to bed, the lights had been off for about an hour but I had forgotten to turn on my LED bubbler. Several fish were breathing heavy and the 2 mollies were at the surface. I turned on the bubbler and went to bed somewhat hopeful.
It will still be an hour or so before the lights come on and I turn off the bubbler but pH is down around 7 now (kH still 300 or more ppm), which by my math puts me in the 50ppm range! I do use my own fertilizer mix (PPS Pro) which includes KH2PO4.
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Post by Carl on Sept 20, 2011 10:20:41 GMT -5
It seems in reality you have ample CO2, if only based on your fish' reaction to low oxygen when the lights go out.
The equation I used does not work well when there is much phosphates in the aquarium water as phosphates can and do affect KH and since the equation only considers pH and KH and not phosphates it often is not accurate (I do not know a better formula)
Carl
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Post by parker002 on Sept 20, 2011 12:49:31 GMT -5
If I'm going to continue, I likely have to invest in a drop checker...for now, I'll just wing it.
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Post by Carl on Sept 20, 2011 16:20:34 GMT -5
Azoo used to have a very reasonably accurate CO2 Test Kit, but this company ceased business in North America and I cannot find anything comparable  Carl |
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Post by parker002 on Sept 21, 2011 7:40:34 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I think the material properties of the cigarette filter that make it an interesting choice for a diffusion end up being its downfall.
It creates very fine bubbles - for about 12 hours. They're so pliable that the combination of water and CO2 move the fibers around and ultimately the bubbles don't consistently stay small.
I may pick up a couple of limewood airstones and experiment some more...
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Post by Carl on Sept 21, 2011 13:14:33 GMT -5
I have had good results with these. I know many persons have had these clog for them, but my experience has been good, including using them in much harsher Marine Skimmer environments where clogging is much more likely due to high mineral content.
Carl
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Post by parker002 on Sept 21, 2011 19:13:22 GMT -5
I read somewhere that the biggest reason they clog with CO2 is swelling of the pores. Drying them out for a few seconds in the microwave seems to return them back to a "like-new" condition...
I will probably end up ordering some of those Sanders airstones from you since they have gotten great reviews but I'm going to experiment with some cheap ones first (don't have to pay shipping)...
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Post by parker002 on Sept 26, 2011 12:05:37 GMT -5
I'm glad I went cheap - I gave up on the limewood diffusers after a couple of days. I just couldn't get the placement to where the bubbles didn't escape to the surface. I had seen so many people using powerhead-based DIY reactors but wasn't real keen on having something that size in my tank. Then I stumbled up this: www.plantedtank.net/articles/DIY-CO2-Reactor/2/I had a small ViaAqua 302 just sitting around - I attached a $4 gravel vac siphon and it works awesome. I actually added a 2nd bottle of mix to my setup and my plants are already starting to pearl this morning... |
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