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Post by GM on Aug 27, 2011 12:29:09 GMT -5
We have a 20 gall tank with three ciclids that are about medium size (2 to 3 inch). One of our young kids dumped a handfull of Spectrum Thera +A (lg fish formula) food in. Just way too much. We removed alot right away, but alot disolved. I changed 10 gallons and sucked out of the gravel as much as I could. Water is still cloudy and their seems to be a coating on everything. Could their be a serious problem with the disolved food? What would the right action to take? Thanks, GM
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Post by goldenpuon on Aug 27, 2011 19:24:14 GMT -5
First, welcome to the Everything Aquatic GM! You have come to the right place. As per what you should do, you will need to check the water for any spikes in ammonia and nitrites using either test strips or a liquid test since all that food was dumped in. As well, depending on the type of filter you have (HOB, canister, sponge, etc), much of the food may have been sucked into it. If that is the case, it will need to be cleaned out using tank water (NOT tapwater) since chlorine from tap water kills nitrifying bacteria which are essential to breaking down ammonia and nitrites. With the buildup/coating the food is causing, gently scrubbing the glass and other surfaces that have a food coating will help. Lastly, your fish may have overeaten, so it is a good idea to keep an eye on them in turns of bloating, constipation, etc. Keep an eye out for eyes of distress with them relating to having eaten too much and also water quality. Although I am recommending cleaning your tank, please use caution in order to not "overclean". Disturbing too much of the areas that hold nitrifying bacteria at one time can kill a lot off. This can lead to poor water quality and ammonia spikes. You seem like you are on the right track to cleaning everything up. You are doing the right thing with water changes and vacumming the gravel to get rid of debris. From what you described, it seems like a great deal of food was put in at once. This may take a little while to clean up. With a few more good cleanings and some time, you should see a big difference in the tank's cleanliness. I hope that helps. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. Renee
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Post by gm on Aug 28, 2011 11:10:08 GMT -5
Thanks. I was a bit surprised on the cleaning part (not using tapwater). When we do water changes, which is 5 gallons per week on this 20 gallon tank, we use tapwater. However, we are adding the tap water dechlorinator agent. How would you describe the best way to do a water change? The way I'm doing it is by vacuming the debris and water of about five gallons and replacing that 5 gallons with tapwater. We pour the water from a clean only fish water bucket right into the tank. BTW --- We have two hang off the back filters with the carbon and filter elements that we rinse out every two weeks (with tapwater). I'm sensing that we are not doing something right? Thoughts?
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Post by goldenpuon on Aug 28, 2011 13:55:12 GMT -5
That should be fine. Most dechlorinators work immediately. With water changes, you can add the dechlorinator to the new tapwater you are adding before it is put in, let it get mixed in with the water and add it. Another tactic is to let new water sit 24 hours before adding it. Chlorine dissapates within this period of time. However, chloramines (which are found in some tapwater) do not and remain in the water (and are toxic to fish). Last, the dechlorinator can be added to the tank right BEFORE the new tapwater is added. In my opinion, mixing the dechlorinator with the tapwater before it is added or adding the dechlroinator to the tank PRIOR to the new water being added is best after the water that is changed is out. Most dechlorinators (such as Prime and others) detoxify chlorine AND chloramines. I think the articles below will be very helpful to you and answer some of your questions in greater detail. Note: One of these articles is very long so please note there is an area right under the title of the article that allows you to "jump" to the section of the article you wish to go to. Please refer to AQUARIUM CLEANING; Reasons and Methods for Water Changes and Tap water for my Aquarium or Pond? From Chlorine and Chloramines to Phosphates & TDS for more information.My apologies that I was a bit unclear regarding the tapwater and cleaning filters. Tapwater is OK to use if dechlorinator is added to the tapwater being used to clean the filter. The reason I had said that about the tapwater is it contains chlorine which can kill nitrifying bacteria if a declorinator is not added. If a dechlorinator is used on tapwater, the chlorine is detoxified or eliminated and is safe to use for cleaning filters as regular tank water is. I hope that helps and best of luck with your fish! Renee
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Post by parker002 on Aug 29, 2011 16:04:59 GMT -5
I put a bit of Seachem Prime in a 5G bucket and then fill it in the bath tub. Since I have a 55G tank, I usually use 2 or 3 buckets, so I use a small pump to fill the tank because pouring the water in from the bucket tends to be quite destructive to my plants. For rinsing your HOB filter cartidges, after vacuuming your gravel, let the bucket sit for a bit. All of the waste and mulm will settle to the bottom. Hand wring your filter media in the water in the bucket as best as you can and put them back. If you have multiple cartridges, you'll have to wait for stuff to settle in between but otherwise will be protecting the valuable bacteria. That being said, most of the readily-available cartridges contain filter floss and carbon - not really havens for nitrifying bacteria. Invest in a sponge filter as it is FAR more effective at de-nitrifcation than your average HOB filter. If you do that, just rinse the sponge in the bucket. Do your water changes and after you've added the water WITH dechlorinator back into the tank, you should be generally safe to clean your filter cartridges any way you want because 1) the majority of your bacteria is not in your filter cartridges but rather in the sponge so you don't have to worry about killing them in the cartridges and 2) there's dechlorinator in your tank from the water change so any chlorine/chloramines in the filter cartridges will be neutralized before harming the bacteria in the sponge. I cut my own filter media for mechanical filtration and use them with a combination of sponge filtration, bio balls, and Seachem Matrix bio media. I NEVER rinse the sponges or Matrix in tap water but I ALWAYS clean the floss and micron filter sheets with a high pressure spray nozzle straight from the tap. I've never had an issue.
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Post by parker002 on Aug 29, 2011 16:05:50 GMT -5
One other thing, you might try buying some sheets of 100 micron and cut them to fit. That will help filter very small particles out of your water.
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Post by Suzie Q (Lori) on Sept 1, 2011 11:26:44 GMT -5
Golden and parker already gave you great advice!!! I'll 2nd the adding Seachem Prime to the tank. Not only does it help with chlorine and chlorimine, but it helps with Ammonia and Nitrites. You WILL get a false positive on Ammonia and Nitrites though. Ammonia and Nitrites will show up but they should not harm the fish using the Prime.
You might want to increase your weekly cleaning to 10g for a couple of weeks, but as Golden pointed out...be careful not to disturb the bacteria.
Lori
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Post by Angelfish on Oct 6, 2014 18:51:43 GMT -5
Will you guys do daily water changes (20-30%?) until the water clears? In the event that food was dumped into the tank, and the initial vacumming has been done
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Oct 7, 2014 0:27:19 GMT -5
Will you guys do daily water changes (20-30%?) until the water clears? In the event that food was dumped into the tank, and the initial vacumming has been done Yes you could. You could do up to 50 daily depending on what's going on. What are your parameters. Here: americanaquariumproducts.com/Nitrogen_Cycle.html#highammonia" Change anywhere from 20%- 50% water every other day (or even every day in severe cases) until you at least reach an ammonia or nitrite level of 1 ppm or less (0 is what you want eventually). The use of Prime or Amquel Plus immediately after each water change is strongly suggested. Also keep in mind that for example 2.0 ppm ammonia, followed by a 50% water change, you are still at 1.0 ppm (which is why the Prime/Amquel + suggestion)" Let us know more and we can help more.
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Post by Angelfish on Oct 7, 2014 7:02:07 GMT -5
Thanks so much! The ammonia is ok this morning but the water is still cloudy
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Post by Carl on Oct 7, 2014 8:35:57 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 8:47:47 GMT -5
This is odd... the date stamps on the initial posts go back to August 2011 -- but there are recent posts about an hour ago....
Anyways.... everything that was said is good.... The only thing I want to add is using Microbe Lift Special Blend to help clear the water and remove the food waste. I have been using the product for years.
My pastor overfed his fish (well fish I bought for him for his birthday). When I saw the condition they were in, I went in to take care of them. The only addition to what was mentioned here was using Special Blend to help clear up the cloudy water. Once all test readings were back to what they should be, I turned the fish back to him (but I brought my favorite ones home with me.... I was a bad girl.... but he didn't earn the right to be a fishkeeper! -- laugh out loud). There is more to the story on why I brought the fish home....He is no longer a fish keeper....The church got new carpeting... The glues killed the fish and that was the end of that.
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Post by Carl on Oct 7, 2014 10:17:29 GMT -5
The reference I cited notes a product that is natural with proven methods of water clarification and that is Algone Resource: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Algone.htmlFrom the Freshwater Basics; Cloudy Water Section: Consider Algone for natural control of organic pollutants via floculation and nitrate control.Carl
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 10:43:18 GMT -5
>> The reference I cited notes a product that is natural with proven methods of water clarification and that is Algone
Yes, I didn't have that product at the time. I have boxes of the small pouches for my smaller aquariums and I use the big one in my 75 gallon. What is great about Algone is that it will not remove medications. Algone helped save my fish when the local water poisoned them. Algone only absorbs organics.
I have already made posts about Algone on that other forum and will be making more in the future. There is bad information about it in some Amazon reviews - so I did post a review there to correct the misinformation.
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Post by angelfish on Oct 7, 2014 19:41:08 GMT -5
I checked the parameters again. ammonia is ok but nitrite is through the roof! Should I change the water again? Daily until nitrite is down? Help!
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Post by This-is-Judy on Oct 7, 2014 20:38:34 GMT -5
Greetings Angelfish,
Members can't sign in now....server is down so I am trying to post as Guest. >> nitrite is through the roof! Nitrites are toxic, too. Can you get some Seachem Prime? or Kordon Amquel Plus? Both of those products will help detox the nitrites.
I know it they were my fish, I would do the water changes (25% at a time). Do you have a beneficial bacteria additive to help the nitrogen cycle? You had a lot of good bacteria in you gravel bed that was helping to keep ammonia and nitrites low. The thorough cleaning got rid of a lot of the colony. Some folks have had success using Seachem Stability (i ordered some) - API makes Stress Zyme and Quick Start. There is also a product called "Cycle". I already mentioned Special Blend.
Again.... original posts go back to August 2011 on this thread... but Angelfish's posts are today. Strange....
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Shirley--AKA Angelminx
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Post by Shirley--AKA Angelminx on Oct 8, 2014 3:14:17 GMT -5
I don't remember the amount to use at the moment, but you might try adding some aquarium salt to help your fish combat any nitrite toxicity they may be experiencing. I think it's 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons. Carl has an article on the AAP site about salt use. If they are small enough, you could also give them a Methyline Blue bath to help with their breathing.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 8:38:28 GMT -5
Yes, Shirley, the ratio is 1 Tablespoon of Aquarium salt to 5 gallons of water (must be aquarium salt). Probably the brand available in your local pet store is API (in a blue/yellow "milk" carton). This salt is a crystal and takes a while to dissolve. When I used that brand, I would dissolve it in some aquarium water.
Note: Some freshwater fish don't like salt (they will do just fine with that amount for a short time)....So once everything is back to normal, you might want to cut back to 1/2 tablespoon per every five gallons. This is the amount I use all the time for my four freshwater aquariums.
Angelfish, let us know how your fish do. Thanks for doing everything you can to keep these fish safe (smile).
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Oct 8, 2014 8:46:04 GMT -5
I checked the parameters again. ammonia is ok but nitrite is through the roof! Should I change the water again? Daily until nitrite is down? Help! I would do what that article say... The one I provided the first time about high ammonia and nitrites.
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Post by angelminx on Oct 9, 2014 0:33:02 GMT -5
When I am going to give a bath (I give them in a quart of water with ~1/4 tsp salt), I place the salt in the container and add a little (so that if it gets cold it won't be problem) tank water to it and swirl/stir it around every so often until it is dissolved. I then add the rest of the tank water, and the Methylene Blue, and whatever meds I am going to use. If the meds are powdered, I put them in with the salt. And, yes, I do have API aquarium salt. In a pinch, I had to use PLAIN rock salt (that I had in the form of "ice melt") a couple of times. I always make sure I get Morton's yellow bag, for ice in the winter, and double-check that there has been no change--nothing added to it since the last time I purchased it.
Angelminx (Shirley)
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