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Post by Suzie Q (Lori) on Jul 29, 2010 12:21:39 GMT -5
Good luck with him Renee.
I have been following this thread also...just not replying. I agree with what Carl said about updating the tread.
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Post by goldenpuon on Jul 29, 2010 18:12:52 GMT -5
Well, I finally managed to hatch the brine shrimp tonight. I wanted to earlier but I put in too much salt and it wouldn't dissolve; And I thought it would be a bad idea to hatch brine shrimp in saturated salty water so I had to keep dumping and re-adding water until all the salt it all dissolved. About the tetra, bad news. I gave it some food after not feeding it yesterday to see if it would eat. (I didn't feed it yesterday because I didn't want to stress it with cleaning up if it didn't eat.) It eat today so I had to take the fish out and get rid of the uneaten flakes/ do a small water change. In the process I poured the fish with the water into a container. After that, when I was still cleaning up after the water change, I saw the fish on its side breathing very heavily. And when I put the 1 gallon container with the fish back in its usual spot, I saw the fish lying in the plants, motionless. (I carried its 1 gallon over to teh bath tub for the water change, just so you know why I moved it) I thought the tetras was dead until I touched the outside of the 1 gallon and saw it move. Later, I saw it up again, pacing the side of the 1 gallon nervously. And last I saw it, it was on it's side, motionless again. I don't think its going to make it but I know I am doing the best I can for it. Please give your prayers to this fish. It was such a well behaviored beautiful male tetra before this happened. Renee
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Post by goldenpuon on Jul 30, 2010 21:09:16 GMT -5
The male black phantom tetra passed away this afternoon. I think it was a combination of his injuries and stress from being in the 1 plastic container which it was not used to. Also, due to stress water changes, particularly when I had to transfer it to another container to get uneaten food.
Luckily, the rest of my tetras, both male and female seem to be doing fine. I am considering moving one of the three males males back I took out for aggression reasons back in with the females. It is a male who is getting picked on a little by the other two. And the tank I have them in is only 3 gallons or so which is not big enough to house 3 males who all need territory.
So I will probably be moving him in with them soon. I have only 4 females and they are housed in a 10 gallon so they should have plenty of space for him get his own area of the tank without stressing out the females.
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Post by Carl on Aug 1, 2010 10:30:00 GMT -5
Sorry that your male Phantom Tetra died, I think you did the best you could. I do have one comment/question though: Water changes when pH in particular and other parameters to a lesser degree are similar are not stressful, and in fact with sick fish water changes generally "perk them up" due to improved Redox & general bio function of the fish (such as osmoregulation); so my question is were your water changes done with water considerably different in pH (or other parameters)? I have seen many answers over at Yahoo Answers stating that sick fish often are made worse by water changes when in fact based on scientific facts and controlled test this is 100% wrong if the water changes are done correctly and in fact can be the difference between recovery & non-recovery with many sick fish based on controlled tests similarly afflicted fish were treated the same but for water changes with one group and no water changes with the other Carl
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Post by goldenpuon on Aug 1, 2010 12:12:50 GMT -5
I am not sure how different the PH parameters were but I know my tap water is pretty soft and the water in my aquariums has a higher PH due to Marine Buffer I add.
I didn't change more than 5-25% water change daily for the tetra that died. What seemed to happen when I did water changes is he'd panic when I took his container over to the bathtub to change a little of it. And when I had to pour him into another container (this had the same water as in the original), it seemed to really scare him. Plus he may have hit a plant in there and hurt himself further when I did so the last time I did a water change before he died.
In the future, I'm not going to pour the water with the fish into another container when cleaning a small 1 gallon such as the one the fish was in. For the fish's safety
But about the PH, how can I make sure it is equal to that in the fish's tank? Marine Buffer raises PH slowly so I don't think that would work for adding water unless it sits for days. And even then, I would have to add exactly the rigth amount
I also sometimes wait until right after I'm done adding new water to add Prime if the water change is 30% or less and the tank is small. I'm not sure if this woul affect anything because I normally have a little more Prime in the tank than the recommended dose before I start the water change.
As of late, I've been trying to pour new water more slowly into my tanks to avoid stressing the fish if parameters are different.
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Post by Carl on Aug 1, 2010 18:33:34 GMT -5
I recommend knowing what the pH of the new water is versus the old water. A change over more than .2- .3 should be avoided with sick fish, however for example if the new water is 8 and the old water is 7 pH, a water change of 25% will not change the ph more than the recommended .2- .3 pH. Buffers can change pH relatively rapidly if the water is quite depleted in KH, but this is why maintaining KH prior to a water change is so important, but from following your threads, I believe you maintain your KH, so I doubt this is an issue for your aquariums. I generally add Prime or similar products while adding water or to a bucket of water prior to adding (see Aquarium Cleaning) Carl
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Post by goldenpuon on Aug 2, 2010 10:37:35 GMT -5
"I recommend knowing what the pH of the new water is versus the old water. A change over more than .2- .3 should be avoided with sick fish, however for example if the new water is 8 and the old water is 7 pH, a water change of 25% will not change the ph more than the recommended .2- .3 pH. Buffers can change pH relatively rapidly if the water is quite depleted in KH, but this is why maintaining KH prior to a water change is so important, but from following your threads, I believe you maintain your KH, so I doubt this is an issue for your aquariums."
That is good to hear. I do notice however that some of my fish that are not sick look a little fazed after a water change. (I commonly clean their tank at the same time too so that may be why). However, normally they bounce right back to begging and acting like nothing happened less than half an hour after the water change but in most cases, almost immedietly.
"I generally add Prime or similar products while adding water or to a bucket of water prior to adding (see Aquarium Cleaning)"
My only problem with this is I generally use a gallon size container to put new water in the tank. I usually do so with many trips abck and forth. If I put Prime in every gallon size container of new water, (because of how little Prime is needed for a gallon of water), I'm afraid I'd severly overdose on it. I'm not sure what to do about this. Maybe add 1/2 the recommended dose of stress coat to each container full and then finish off my water change by adding Prime to get rid of any remaining chlorine.
Also, I forgot to mention, sometimes I add Prime to the aquarium when I am in the middle of putting in new water so it cvan detioxify any new water that I put in.
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Post by Carl on Aug 2, 2010 17:23:00 GMT -5
This can be difficult, as you pointed out, my point would to get at least half the Prime (or similar product) in the water prior or during filling and then the rest at the end so as to prevent stress from chlorine or chloramines
Carl
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Post by goldenpuon on Aug 2, 2010 20:33:46 GMT -5
"This can be difficult, as you pointed out, my point would to get at least half the Prime (or similar product) in the water prior or during filling and then the rest at the end so as to prevent stress from chlorine or chloramines"
You mean the dechlorinator into the the 'tank' or 'container' I use to fill the tank prior or during filling? Sorry if this is an obvious question. I just want to be sure I am doing this right and understand you correctly.
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Post by Carl on Aug 3, 2010 9:11:52 GMT -5
This is an either/or answer. The main objective is to not expose your fish to large amounts of chlorine or worse; chloramines. This can be achieved in either the tank or in a container with water to be added or both
Carl
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Post by goldenpuon on Aug 3, 2010 18:51:41 GMT -5
Thanks Carl. I understand what you mean now. I will make sure I always do that from now on.
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Post by parker002 on Aug 4, 2010 12:43:56 GMT -5
Seachem recommends adding 5ml (~ a teaspoon, or 1 capful) per 50 gallons. I do water changes in 5 gallon buckets, usually 3 at a time, so I just pour Prime into the cap, not quite full. I then pour equal amounts in each of the 3 buckets BEFORE I add any water. I don't ever add Prime directly to the tank, just to new water.
And as Carl mentioned, my fish ALWAYS act much more perky after a water change. For one, pouring 5 gallons of water into the tank out of a heavy bucket produces ALOT of churn in the water and they love all the tiny bubbles.
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Post by bikeguy33 on Aug 5, 2010 1:28:03 GMT -5
if it isnt a major large change i dont use anything.......20-30% i use just water without any anti-chlorine additives, but any more i use a cap of chlorine remover in the first bucket. we also did this in the maintenance bisiness. this isnt to say its right, but most fresh water species can take it.....
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Post by parker002 on Aug 5, 2010 13:00:38 GMT -5
if it isnt a major large change i dont use anything.......20-30% i use just water without any anti-chlorine additives, but any more i use a cap of chlorine remover in the first bucket. we also did this in the maintenance bisiness. this isnt to say its right, but most fresh water species can take it..... The biggest reason to dechlorinate is to protect nitrifying bacteria. Chlorine is far more toxic to them than to the fish - killing bacteria is the reason for adding chlorine to tap water in the first place. So if your bacteria bed is well-established and strong, a small water change likely won't affect anything. I add Prime to the water when I do water changes, but I often wash my fiber filter cartridges in the sink - I've never had an ammonia spike of any kind.
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Post by goldenpuon on Aug 5, 2010 14:19:25 GMT -5
Thank you for the help. I am adding dechlorinator to every bucket from now on (unless perhaos the 40 gallon where it will be every other bucket due to how many buckets I have to change).
As Bill noted, I don't think I really need to do much with dechlorinator on water changes, in my opinion under 5-10%. But I have to disagree on amounts 20-30%. The fish and bacteria may be fine if I don't add it then but I think it's best to add it to be safe just in case.
For an update on my tetras (and also back to the main topic of this thread), I added the male that looked like he was being harrassed a little more than the other two males in the 3 gallon.
His color is very good and he somehow seems to have grown since he was last in the 10 gallon. Either that or he is a little fatter. But anyway, he is establishing his territory and i'm keeping an eye out to make sure he doesn't chase the 4 females in there too much.
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