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Post by Carl on Nov 30, 2009 10:11:56 GMT -5
It is quite common for weak fish with an extremely compromised immune system to display multiple symptoms from loss of scales to white patches & nodes, sores, frayed fins, etc..
As for Ich, that should be easy to indentify as the white spots are regular in size vs. a white node.
Carl
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Post by goldenpuon on Nov 30, 2009 18:01:29 GMT -5
I think you are rght. Dot is very likely she is a weak fish (plus she is pretty old). I remember another time the fish got sick in that tank that she was the first one to fall ill.
She doesn't have ich now as far as I know. The white thing on her head is not ich. I am certain of that. (Sorry if I didn't explain well on that.)
My only question remaining is how to treat the tank before I put the fish back in.
Would you recommend I treat it with Nitrofurozone and Paraguard prior to putting the fish in? I am thinking that since Saprolegnia and ich were present in the tank, that would be the best choice. But of course I don't know if they mix or if they cancal each other out. The fish would be absent during this time of course.
Thanks again Carl. You have been a big help.
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Post by fishfever on Nov 30, 2009 19:23:10 GMT -5
Hmmm... I'm wondering if you can get away with removing fish, treating a tank and replacing fish? Not to be critical of this idea, but how would you know the fish aren't carrying something that will just go back into the tank and multiply? My thoughts would be to try to treat the fish with whatever you determine to be the best medication(s) in a hospital tank if possible since I'm guessing you are trying to avoid damaging the beneficial bacteria in your tank. Maybe in lieu of medicating the tank you could run the temp up as high as possible, maybe adding an extra heater - maybe a bad "stuck on" one like the one SusieQ had. ;-) This is assuming you can get the tank temp high enough to knock out your bad pathogens but allowing your good bacteria to survive and granted we don't even know for sure what we are dealing with yet if I read this thread correctly. This is just an idea but I still think you should consider treating the fish, not just the tank...
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Post by bikeguy33 on Nov 30, 2009 21:07:41 GMT -5
Renee....just a thought...but when the weather gets better in michigan....would your mother allow you to treat 1 gallon buckets with MB if you did it outside in the yard? it is a shame that such a usefull treatment is made unavailable because of the mess factor!
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Post by Carl on Dec 1, 2009 10:08:35 GMT -5
My only question remaining is how to treat the tank before I put the fish back in. Would you recommend I treat it with Nitrofurozone and Paraguard prior to putting the fish in? I am thinking that since Saprolegnia and ich were present in the tank, that would be the best choice. But of course I don't know if they mix or if they cancel each other out. The fish would be absent during this time of course. I do not think ParaGuard would help at this point, better would be the Nitrofurazone with Kanamycin A bath with salt and Metronidazole would be helpful as well (& of coarse Methylene Blue if your Mom could be convinced otherwise) Hmmm... I'm wondering if you can get away with removing fish, treating a tank and replacing fish? Not to be critical of this idea, but how would you know the fish aren't carrying something that will just go back into the tank and multiply? My thoughts would be to try to treat the fish with whatever you determine to be the best medication(s) in a hospital tank if possible since I'm guessing you are trying to avoid damaging the beneficial bacteria in your tank. This is an excellent point! No disrespect meant, but raising temperatures may work for Ich, but many bacterial pathogens, in particular Columnaris is best treated by lowering temperatures to 74 F Maybe a different treatment such as a Melafix/Pimafix combination or Triple Sulfa would be a way to treat this main tank. Renee....just a thought...but when the weather gets better in michigan....would your mother allow you to treat 1 gallon buckets with MB if you did it outside in the yard? it is a shame that such a useful treatment is made unavailable because of the mess factor! I totally agree! Carl
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Post by goldenpuon on Dec 1, 2009 16:15:31 GMT -5
Thanks for the helpful advice everyone. Not to disregard your advice Fishfever (your post was very helpful) but I have to concur that raising the temperature won't kill out all the pathogens. But I think that you are right that it's best not to add the fish back in. You made an excellent point here. Since the fish are supposedly at the end of their life (betta lifespan varies), and white fish, Dot is obviously weak and likely to spread disease, the best thing to do might be to not add them back in. But rather give them 2 seperate 1 gallons to live out the rest of their lives (with wondershells and a piece of sponge cut off a sponge filter for better water conditions of course). Thanks for the advice on the tank treatment Carl. I will treat the tank the fish were in with Pimafix and Melafix or Triple Sulfa. It is unfortunate about the Methyline Blue. But I don't feel I am in the position to argue with my mom at this point. She has agreed to let me use the medicated wondershells (which have MB) and I don't want to push her anymore about it. Sorry about that guys. On the positive side, Dot seems like she is getting better slowly and both fish are eating very well again. I'm continuing to keep a close eye on them.
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Post by fishfever on Dec 1, 2009 19:09:18 GMT -5
Carl yes I do recall Columnaris likes higher temps when I had that problem a while back... I guess I was thinking since there are no fish in the tank you could run the temp up really, really high (maybe with an extra heater and/or dumping some very hot water in the tank), temps that would normally be fatal to fish. I don't know if there is some temp that would kill most pathogens that is less than boiling without destroying your good bacteria though; maybe thinking too much outside the box here. After going through the nearly two month ordeal of having to recycle my main tank with fish (after bombarding the tank with meds) I wouldn't want to wish that on anyone. It was easily the two hardest months I've had since I became a "fish daddy".
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