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Post by brenda on Apr 24, 2009 9:37:08 GMT -5
First thing is yes, I have read your whole heater article Carl. Great article but still some questions. It seems I have to have higher wattage heaters then what it seems I should need. What I am trying to see is...is it ok to put a 150 watt heater in a 16 gallon tank.For example…I have a 50 watt heater in my 10 gallon tank but I have to turn the nob all the way up to 89-90 to maintain 78 degrees. I also have a 50watt in my 12 it too is crank almost all the way up to maintain 78. I had a 100watt in the 16 gallon but it sometimes stopped working so I wanted to put a new one in. Now I bought the exact same heater that was in there and the old heater wasn’t even turned up half way and maintained 80degrees, the new heater I have cranked about as high as it goes and it is barely 78. Why is this? The temp in our house is anywhere from 69-78 degrees depending on time of day and how warm it is outside. So the math equation doesn’t seem to work right in my house. The heater on this particular tank is just a top fin brand maybe I will just spend the extra money on a better [url= ]aquarium heater because I really think 100watts should be plenty for 16 gallons. |
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Post by brenda on Apr 24, 2009 9:38:49 GMT -5
Sorry, you may want to move this...I forgot about the aqua and pond equipment section.
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Post by Carl on Apr 24, 2009 9:52:59 GMT -5
First thing is yes, I have read your whole heater article Carl. Great article but still some questions. It seems I have to have higher wattage heaters then what it seems I should need. What I am trying to see is...is it ok to put a 150watt heater in a 16 gallon tank.For example…I have a 50 watt heater in my 10 gallon tank but I have to turn the nob all the way up to 89-90 to maintain 78 degrees. I also have a 50watt in my 12 it too is crank almost all the way up to maintain 78. I had a 100watt in the 16 gallon but it sometimes stopped working so I wanted to put a new one in. Now I bought the exact same heater that was in there and the old heater wasn’t even turned up half way and maintained 80degrees, the new heater I have cranked about as high as it goes and it is barely 78. Why is this? The temp in our house is anywhere from 69-78 degrees depending on time of day and how warm it is outside. So the math equation doesn’t seem to work right in my house. The heater on this particular tank is just a top fin brand maybe I will just spend the extra money on a better heater because I really think 100watts should be plenty for 16 gallons. First the problem I have with placing a 150 Watt Heater in a 16 gallon tank is it would take only a minor malfunction for this heater to fry your tank, as well from my observations of the years (not scientific tests though) is that "over watted" heaters tend to really bounce in temperature considerably, especially on unusual warm days. An example is a high wattage heater in a small tank doing OK all Winter, then one suddenly warm spring day the ambient temperature shoots up and the tank over heats. I observed this often in LA as the "winters" there often had "Santa Ana" winds that would bring on sudden 90 degree Winter days and this is when I observed this problem. Keep in mind that even the best thermostatic Pre-Set heaters are often incorrect in their pre-sets (as Bill noted in another thread), and with some lower quality heaters (& although I have not used Top Fin, I have heard of issues from others about their questionable quality) this problem is amplified. Not to sound flippant, but the math is good, it is usually the heaters when this equation does not work. BTW, I did not even make this equation, it was passed to me years back and I found it to work quite well assuming a accurate heater, ambient temperatures that did not swing widely, no unusual drafts, or the most common problem, heat generated by aquarium equipment (which still cannot be blamed on the math) Carl |
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Post by brenda on Apr 24, 2009 10:02:42 GMT -5
I wasn't blaming the math equation itself...Just saying when I use it it doesn't work...I seem to need more wattage then I should. If it is the heaters isn't it weird that it is all of mine. I will say on my more expensive heaters they at one time were set right and stayed right but I have gradually had to turn them up.
Will it be ok to go ahead and keep using a 100watt heater? If so I am just going to buy a better one.
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Post by Carl on Apr 24, 2009 10:09:22 GMT -5
I wasn't blaming the math equation itself...Just saying when I use it it doesn't work...I seem to need more wattage then I should. If it is the heaters isn't it weird that it is all of mine. I will say on my more expensive heaters they at one time were set right and stayed right but I have gradually had to turn them up. Will it be ok to go ahead and keep using a 100watt heater? If so I am just going to buy a better one. Brenda, I did not take it as you "blaming the math", maybe I did not word my response well.  I understood that your heaters were having minds of their own. As for the 100 watt heater in a 16 gallon tank, this will work, I personally would just have some concerns and would more likely (as a generalization) use a 50-75 watt heater, However my point here is a generalization, as I am not taking into consideration ambient temperature variation which could include extreme drafts, or heat from equipment (such as lights, pumps) Carl |
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Post by brenda on Apr 24, 2009 10:34:38 GMT -5
Well, and maybe I didn’t word it right either and sounded like I was blaming the math. Lol
Well, I originally had a 50watt heater in the tank but it didn’t work well…the 2nd to the last click would only do about 77degrees but the last click would jump it up to like 81 and you couldn’t set it in between the clicks like you can on some. I prefer this tank to be 79-80 because it is a fry tank. If I see a 75watt I may go with that. If I had more time I would order from you but this is something I need now as my Perrieri that I was supposed to get Wednesday are now scheduled for this coming Tuesday. That is also why I want this to be correct as if something happens these fish are not replaceable.
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Post by barbara on Apr 24, 2009 10:45:16 GMT -5
No kidding Brenda, good thinking ahead. If you doubt the heater, I'd say to upgrade to the best one you can for their tank.
I also tend to have weirdness with some heaters. I try to keep my fry tanks a little warmer than my normal tanks, as well. Makes it challenging sometimes to get the temp exactly right.
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Post by brenda on Apr 24, 2009 10:49:23 GMT -5
Yeah, I am going to buy a more expensive one...I have never had the top fins cause any issues on my smaller tank as I have used them before but these fish as I said before are not replaceable.
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Post by barbara on Apr 24, 2009 11:13:03 GMT -5
These fish are so rare you may want to build a shrine to them! LOL
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Post by brenda on Apr 24, 2009 11:17:41 GMT -5
Ummm....Yeah, I do actually want too.
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Post by barbara on Apr 24, 2009 11:39:51 GMT -5
Off topic of [url= aquarium heaters, although you know my theory that getting them into the inch size range as fast as possible tends to help survival rates...I use a higher heat for that... I have also noticed that the earlier you get them out of a bare bottomed tank, the sooner you see them acting like "real cichlids." I mean, I got my "blue tipped" at 1/4 inch, and had them in a 10 gallon bare bottomed grow out tank to start. I moved them into a sandy bottom tank fairly early, after I'd had them just a week or so. The change in behavior was amazing. I don't mean just sand sifting, but almost immediately I began to see a different coloration, and also a little bit of sparring, like a challenge for dominance. The tank is almost 3 times bigger, so it's not a crowding issue. I mention this because along with slightly elevated temps, I'd make sure you treat this like a "small adult" tank, and the behavior is so different than a typical grow out tank. |
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Post by bikeguy33 on Apr 24, 2009 21:14:39 GMT -5
to add to the 150 malfunctioning i have a lil to add as well. a 150 is a very tall heater. if all the glass isnt submergedthe temps are going to be all over the place. was there any of the glass outside of the water???
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Post by Carl on Apr 25, 2009 9:39:07 GMT -5
to add to the 150 malfunctioning i have a lil to add as well. a 150 is a very tall heater. if all the glass isnt submergedthe temps are going to be all over the place. was there any of the glass outside of the water??? This is an excellent point (not that I am surprised  ) ANY preset submersible heater will not correctly regulate the temperature if the heater is not properly submerged as this does not allow the heater thermostat (which is generally quite basically) "sense" the temperature. As well poor circulation around the heater will further this problem. Carl |
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Post by brenda on Apr 25, 2009 12:02:44 GMT -5
I make sure all my heaters are completely submerged.
I went ahead and bought the 100watt rena smartheater, I am just working at regulating it and getting it set in the right spot now.
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Post by Carl on Apr 25, 2009 12:36:48 GMT -5
I figured you did, but it was worth mentioning, as well many visitors to this forum may read this thread and not be aware of this. The Rena is an excellent choice (most all their products are good IMO, sometimes just a little over priced), good luck! Carl |
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Post by brenda on Apr 25, 2009 13:24:00 GMT -5
Yeah, the heater definitely wasn't cheap but worth peace of mind with the new guys I have coming in. I now run the rena's on 3 of my 4 tanks.
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