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Post by cashay on Sept 18, 2008 9:30:46 GMT -5
 ok I had mentioned this before when Cash was getting sick.... I noticed again last night when I was vaccuming his tank, there is this black soot looking stuff under the gravel.. I still cant figure out what it is... I do have a thought though, Could it be from the charcole in the filter? It is one of those filters that come with the 5 gallon tank, whisper.. And you just buy the replacement filters in the pouch... Could it be that seeping through or something? there isn't any tears or anything in the pouch, but this is all I can think of.. Does this sound like a possibilty? And how can I fix it,with out having to go buy another filter? And could this hurt Cash? 
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Post by Carl on Sept 18, 2008 9:57:19 GMT -5
Do you have an under gravel filter?
I have found a black decomposition of organic mulm when cleaning under plates before. Even if you do not have a UGF, this can still occur. If this is what it is, it will be irregular in shape and soft to the touch.
However if this is simply carbon from a filter this will feel coarse to the touch and is not harmful at all in your gravel.
If this is the before mentioned decomposing mulm, this needs to be removed via several vacuumings about 25-30% each time.
I am sure I asked this question before (so pardon my memory), if you do not have a UGF, what are your filters?
Carl
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Post by cashay on Sept 18, 2008 10:16:24 GMT -5
Well I have the whisper, and also a bubbler, OR gravel stone??/ It also came with the two gallon tank had the stone inside a tube(removable) and had the plate that holds the tube But I took out the plate, and just have the air stone (or what ever it is)  And just have the stone in a little castle just for the bubbles to circulate.. But it really has no texture to the black stuff at all, just a black color that comes up when i vaccume, kinda looks like dirty water (very dirty water) |
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Post by Carl on Sept 18, 2008 11:53:38 GMT -5
Well I have the whisper, and also a bubbler, OR gravel stone??/ It also came with the two gallon tank had the stone inside a tube(removable) and had the plate that holds the tube But I took out the plate, and just have the air stone (or what ever it is) And just have the stone in a little castle just for the bubbles to circulate.. But it really has no texture to the black stuff at all, just a black color that comes up when i vaccume, kinda looks like dirty water (very dirty water) This does seem to be rotting mulm, if there is no texture and it is soft.. How coarse is your gravel and how deep is the gravel bed? Carl |
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Post by cashay on Sept 18, 2008 11:58:40 GMT -5
1 1/2 -2 inch for gravel, From what Susie Q said before it was the medium size gravel. Is that what you mean for the course? I'm not sure how course it is.. |
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Post by Carl on Sept 18, 2008 12:11:03 GMT -5
1 1/2 -2 inch for gravel, From what Susie Q said before it was the medium size gravel. Is that what you mean for the course? I'm not sure how course it is.. Yes, that is what I was asking  Medium gravel is also referred to as #3 gravel and is about 1/8" in diameter. This is generally the best size for most FW aquarium set ups, so this in NOT your problem. You might consider rinsing about 1/4 to 1/2 of your gravel in a bucket so as to get out more of this decomposing mulm (which can cause problems). Make sure you leave aged filter media in your Whisper while performing this (usually a Whisper has a sponge insert unless you bought the very basic filter). I would also consider a second filter that has a higher bio capacity than the Whisper such as a Sponge Filter or Internal Wet/Dry; this will help prevent this type of decomposition. Carl |
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Post by cashay on Sept 18, 2008 13:11:34 GMT -5
Ok will do, What causes this decomposition of organic mulm?
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Post by Carl on Sept 18, 2008 13:29:04 GMT -5
Ok will do, What causes this decomposition of organic mulm? Usually excess organics such as food, combined with either inadequate bio filtration and/or cleaning When it is black like you are describing, this is generally breaking down anaerobically (often by Heterotrophic bacteria). This is not as healthy a way for the breakdown of wastes and CAN (not wiill)produce toxic side affects as well. Also Aeromonas bacteria and Saprolegnia can also multiply in areas where this is happening. Carl |
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Post by cashay on Sept 18, 2008 14:37:41 GMT -5
so not enough oxygen?
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Post by bikeguy33 on Sept 18, 2008 18:52:14 GMT -5
also......in my experience....even in ready to go filters....i have always rinsed them under water....charcoal has alot of dust in it....and this dust is a large concern to me. it is theorized that charcoal dust may be responsible for some cases of HITH in cichlids.
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Post by Carl on Sept 18, 2008 19:01:59 GMT -5
YES also......in my experience....even in ready to go filters....i have always rinsed them under water....charcoal has alot of dust in it....and this dust is a large concern to me. it is theorized that charcoal dust may be responsible for some cases of HITH in cichlids. Once again a good point bikeguy (show off! LOL) Carl |
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Post by cashay on Sept 19, 2008 11:28:53 GMT -5
WELL ACTUALLY THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE! BLACK DUST! THANKS BIKEGUY! I HAVE ALSO ORDERED ONE OF THOSE HYDRO SPONGE FILTERS SO HOPEFULLY THIS WILL HELP,SHOULD I LEAVE THE STONE IN IT TO, BUBBLER STONE (whatever it is called) ARE THE HYDRO FILTERS EASY TO USE? HOOK UP? DO I USE ANOTHER HOSE OR SOMETHING WITH IT? PICTURE DOESN'T SHOW A HOSE...
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Post by Carl on Sept 19, 2008 11:38:54 GMT -5
WELL ACTUALLY THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE! BLACK DUST! THANKS BIKEGUY! I HAVE ALSO ORDERED ONE OF THOSE HYDRO SPONGE FILTERS SO HOPEFULLY THIS WILL HELP,SHOULD I LEAVE THE STONE IN IT TO, BUBBLER STONE (whatever it is called) ARE THE HYDRO FILTERS EASY TO USE? HOOK UP? DO I USE ANOTHER HOSE OR SOMETHING WITH IT? PICTURE DOESN'T SHOW A HOSE... Glad you have this figured out. As I noted earlier, anaerobic decomposing organic is a soft (maybe even "spongy") flaky substance, not a dust or hard. So I am glad bikeguy was able to put this in better words than I As to setting up a sponge filter, the most common way is with an air line hose (tubing) then connect this to an air pump. This article has several pistures (& video) as to sponge filter set up: Sponge filtrationCarl |
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Post by cashay on Sept 19, 2008 13:15:08 GMT -5
I actually did read that article. (great article by the way) So the little air filter I have that is connected to the stone, can I use that? just hook the hose to that instead of the stone? Or is it going to come with the air filter? can you tell I dont know much about this stuff??  |
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Post by Carl on Sept 19, 2008 15:35:59 GMT -5
I actually did read that article. (great article by the way) So the little air filter I have that is connected to the stone, can I use that? just hook the hose to that instead of the stone? Or is it going to come with the air filter? can you tell I dont know much about this stuff?? Yes (I guess you mean the Air Pump, not filter), but anyway the same tubing and air pump will be fine Carl
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Post by cashay on Sept 20, 2008 9:39:47 GMT -5
Thanks that is what I meant... Thanks Carl for your patients
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ok I had mentioned this before when Cash was getting sick.... I noticed again last night when I was vaccuming his tank, there is this black soot looking stuff under the gravel.. I still cant figure out what it is... I do have a thought though, Could it be from the charcole in the filter? It is one of those filters that come with the 5 gallon tank, whisper.. And you just buy the replacement filters in the pouch... Could it be that seeping through or something? there isn't any tears or anything in the pouch, but this is all I can think of.. Does this sound like a possibilty? And how can I fix it,with out having to go buy another filter? And could this hurt Cash? 
And just have the stone in a little castle just for the bubbles to circulate.. But it really has no texture to the black stuff at all, just a black color that comes up when i vaccume, kinda looks like dirty water (very dirty water)
