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Post by cashay on Mar 3, 2009 9:32:27 GMT -5
I woke up yesterday morning and fed the fry mollies, all seemed well, they were doing great! getting big, and when I got home yesterday from work i went to feed them like I always do around the same time, and all six were dead! I dont know what happened! i have been checking water parameters on a regular basis, cause i know they are (were) still fragile. and it was always good almost perfect, I just dont understand it! what in the world could have happened to all six at one time? I can see loosing one at a time or something, but this was all. of them. one was barely hanging on when I got home floating on side but i can still see tail trying to move with in 30 min he was gone also...  |
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Post by brenda on Mar 3, 2009 9:51:09 GMT -5
Wow...That is crazy...Sorry, about your babies. It had to be a spike in something or maybe some sort of toxin got in there. Hard to say what is was.
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Post by Carl on Mar 3, 2009 9:59:58 GMT -5
Sorry to read this Cashay I wish I had an exact answer (or better). Did you check water parameters at the time of this sad discovery? Did you have some salt, how about a source for minerals ions? Are there other fish in there, if so how are they? As you noted, fry can be very sensitive, not only to water parameters, but to many opportunistic diseases. Aeromonas is a very common disease pathogen to affect fry, as well Saprolegnia can also affect fry under the right conditions (both are more common in low oxygen levels with high amounts of organic mulm). Carl |
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Post by murdock6701 on Mar 3, 2009 10:30:06 GMT -5
I had the same thing happen once dear w/ platy fry - they need areation badly as well as more frequent water changes - what size tank did you have them in? what kind of filter" was it under fravel? another common cause is a tendency to over or under feed - am really sorry
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Post by cashay on Mar 3, 2009 11:03:31 GMT -5
It was a 2.5 gallon, did have the under gravel filter but I took that out after the first day, cause I didnt want any gravel in it. easier to clean more frequently, and I was afraid the fry would get caught under it so i just let the bubbler stone hang in the tank,maybe that was it, not enough circulation because the bubbler made a strong current so i pulled it pretty much to the top so they could have easy flowing water, i guess I didnt have enough....  they were in the tank by themselves, bigger one's kept trying to bully them so I kept them seperate. MAN..... they were doing so well to, growing i was actually proud! made sure everyone seen them as they came into the house, (showing off) and my grandson liked them to, every time before he left to go home he would kiss the tank and say bye fishies!... awe no one is at the house during the day, so i cant see where anything would have been dropped into the tank or anything.. hmmm this is a mystery. But I do think (now) it had something to do with the filteration... dang it.. have to learn the hard way  I did have a small pinch of salt in it, and a piece of a wonder shell... |
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Post by murdock6701 on Mar 3, 2009 12:57:13 GMT -5
I have a 1.6 gallon tank for mine w/ an undergravel filter w/ 3/4" of gravel and a heater and a light - all essential IMO - and water changes once a week and a small chunk of wondershell - mine didn't come w/ a heater so I added one - the light it came w/ gave off heat but obviously you don't leave the kight on 24/7 so I added the heater (northern Michigan) sorry about your loss - I know the excitement and fascination and the awe the little ones experience as well as adults in sseing babies - better luck next time dear, because there will be a next time - hope you're keeping a log....
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Post by corycatwoman on Mar 3, 2009 13:12:28 GMT -5
to prevent you from removing the bubbler wand next time. you should look at petsmart for a gang valve. you can add more bubbler stones or smaller bubbler stones and also control the output of air to each stone. it does wonders.
sorry about your loss its always a bummer when everything seems to be going great and you think your doing all the right things and theres nothing you can do to change what the outcome of your fish will be.
look into the gang valves i currently have a 2 way gang valve but im sure they come in bigger i think possibly up to an 8 way gang valve. but thats overkill just get a few small bubbler stones or a couple of smaller bubbler wands and put them in the gang valve adjust the output of air from the pump and it should be a happier and more oxygenated tank.
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Post by corycatwoman on Mar 3, 2009 13:30:55 GMT -5
also forgot to mention in previous posts those gang valves im talking about are in the price range from 2 dollars up to im going ballpark i didnt really look into the 5 or 8 gang valves but im guessing under 12 dollars.www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752202
the website gives you options of 2 way, 3 way or 4 way for under 5 bucks.
i saw more of them in the store, so check those out. might even wanna pick up extra tubing and get some smaller air stones and randomly place them where you like and give it a try.
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Post by cashay on Mar 3, 2009 14:45:11 GMT -5
Thank you! I will look into them! that would be cool, I do actually have one of those small hydron heaters Carl told me about in there. it's actually perfect for the small tank. I did have the gravel, but I found it more trouble some with the under gravel filter in there, every time I wanted to get all the mulm out of it I had to pick it up to vaccume under it and then that was a pain because the gravel would fall under neath it, then well you know..just a pain...
Didnt think about keeping a log! but that is a perfect idea! Learn from my mistakes.. because the Good Lord knows I'm making alot as I learn!
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Post by goldenpuon on Mar 3, 2009 15:46:20 GMT -5
Sorry ot hear you lost your fry Cashay. I have also had this happen with fry. I had a sudden die-off when there was not enough aeration, overfeeding, or like Carl said, an opportunistic infection. I had this happen many times with betta fry when cottony stuff starterd growing on dead fry and then as I netted them out, more died and got fuzzy fast. My point is thi is not that uncommon with fry. Now I keep my guppy frys' 2 1/2 really clean and I have not ever had a problem. Also, if you need a filter, a Hydro Sponge # 1 filter is a great option. It has no trouble fitting in a 2 1/2 gallon and works great for aeration. Hope that helps Cashay! Bett luck with the fry! |
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Post by Carl on Mar 3, 2009 16:17:24 GMT -5
Sorry ot hear you lost your fry Cashay. I have also had this happen with fry. I had a sudden die-off when there was not enough aeration, overfeeding, or like Carl said, an opportunistic infection. I had this happen many times with betta fry when cottony stuff starterd growing on dead fry and then as I netted them out, more died and got fuzzy fast. My point is thi is not that uncommon with fry. Now I keep my guppy frys' 2 1/2 really clean and I have not ever had a problem. Also, if you need a filter, a Hydro Sponge # 1 filter is a great option. It has no trouble fitting in a 2 1/2 gallon and works great for aeration. Hope that helps Cashay! Bett luck with the fry! I agree with Renee here as to the Sponge Filter, as this will proide necessary circulation, but as well provide excellent bio filtration that multiple air stones will not. I am generally not a fan of Under gravel filters for breeding tanks as thet can accumulate a lot of organic mulm which in turn will attract Heteotrophic bacteria such as Aeromonas that adult fish may have no problem ressitant these bacterium, but fry may not. Carl |
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Post by kagome on Mar 3, 2009 16:46:57 GMT -5
I'm so sorry that you lost your babies. I know you were really excited about them.  I would agree with going with a sponge filter, they are just great and then no big pain in the butt of the under gravel filter. You'll get it figured out and then you will have so many babies you won't know what to do with them! As for your next batch of babies:  |
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Post by murdock6701 on Mar 3, 2009 17:32:17 GMT -5
Cash, let me clarify as well that I only keep the fry in the small tank for a month at the most and then transfer them to their own 10 or whatever to allow them to grow out - the little tank is a temporary thing and ys, I agree, UG filters suck, but for the short period of time they're actually in that tank, it serves it purpose - thing is heat, light, filtration and water changes!
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Post by Carl on Mar 3, 2009 19:34:01 GMT -5
thing is heat, light, filtration and water changes! These are important points! especially water changes which will reduce DOC (dissolved organic compounds) in the water attract bacterium such as Aeromonas and as well water changes aid in adding electrolytes/cations that benefit your fry. All this said, you can do everything right, and still sometimes things go wrong, so do not beat yourself up over this and fret too much about what went wrong. Carl |
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Post by bikeguy33 on Mar 3, 2009 21:30:52 GMT -5
to me, if the water perameters were good and feeding wasn`t a problem....i would have to assume it is not enough dissolved oxygen in the water. as you noted there is an air stone....but if it is an old stone, often the bubbles are to large to do much good. bubbles have to be tiny to be effective...
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Post by corycatwoman on Mar 4, 2009 0:21:50 GMT -5
i agree with everyone about the filtration i myself need to look into getting a different filtration device for when i start to get guppy fry. but since you already have the recomended filter then my advise about the new airstones and gang valves for the control of the amount of circulation that they put off would be a beneficial addition to everything said.
good luck next time and from my experience with pregnant fish. if they get pregnant than the water conditions must be good or the fish will not be in the mood. and if they have reproduced once they will certainly reproduce again and again and again.
hope everything here helped.
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Post by cashay on Mar 4, 2009 15:01:33 GMT -5
thing is heat, light, filtration and water changes!
Had all four, I only use the little tank for a hospital tank, and I put them in there when they were tiny, I was so close to putting them in the bigger tank. I have one of the hydro filter's from Carl in my bigger tank, just wasnt going to do anything special with the small tank, like i mentioned that was just barely ever used, I do believe i didnt have enough oxygen in it because I had the bubbler all the way near the top of tank and not at the bottom, I hate i lost them but i have to chalk it up to experience, a new fish keeper has no business having fry to care for anyway , I'm still learning about the adult ones!
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Post by murdock6701 on Mar 4, 2009 15:21:48 GMT -5
don't beat yourself up over it dear - you just learned something which will hepl you out next time, and there will be a next time - you have mollies - should be due soon I bet.....keep your chin up - you're a good keeper, you will do just fine!
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Post by corycatwoman on Mar 4, 2009 15:23:46 GMT -5
i agree. im still not ready for my fry. im going to have to get a new tank for them but i just dont have the money for it yet. so hopefully my fry are smart and swim to the fake floating baby fry plants i have in the tank and if they dont then ittle be a good meal for my glass cats and male and female guppies. but if i end up able to get a new tank ill for sure have it well oxygenated and ill have to look into that filter that was mentioned in this post. i hope i can get it cycled soon enough aswell.
but definately look into that gang valve. even if you dont use a big bubbler wand you can get numerous smaller air stones. it may be the ticket you were looking for it certainly wouldnt hurt anything.
good luck next time.
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Post by cashay on Mar 4, 2009 15:52:12 GMT -5
Will definitely look into it! Thanks
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they were in the tank by themselves, bigger one's kept trying to bully them so I kept them seperate. MAN..... they were doing so well to, growing i was actually proud! made sure everyone seen them as they came into the house, (showing off) and my grandson liked them to, every time before he left to go home he would kiss the tank and say bye fishies!... awe no one is at the house during the day, so i cant see where anything would have been dropped into the tank or anything.. hmmm this is a mystery. But I do think (now) it had something to do with the filteration... dang it.. have to learn the hard way 
I did have a small pinch of salt in it, and a piece of a wonder shell...
I would agree with going with a sponge filter, they are just great and then no big pain in the butt of the under gravel filter. 
