quality of chain store fish

[murdock6701]

is it just me, or has the quality of fish from petsmart, ect. (chain stores) gone downhill? seems like I've read an awful lot of articles lately on newly purchaed fish that become ill or die early on - I go thru all the hoops to make acclimation right and I still end up w/ crap like ich - have lost 3 out of 20 platysin a little over a week - all the white MM - seem resisitant to meds - this is NOT an isolated incident - is it that the aquarium "industry" has become so large quantity over quality rules? this plain sucks!

[goldenpuon]

The Petsmart near me seems to be trying to give the fish better quality care than they used to even though the stock they get is often is sick and they don't notice/treat it.

For example, all the feeder tanks have bubblers and weekend feeders (though weekend feeders aren't necessarily good for the fish). Also, I noticed that they put in toys like hamster tunnels for the fish to hide in and though it is really not good for them, they feed the fish cucumber. Last, they take a few of the feeder goldfish and put them in with the other fish that are not feeders. They aren't eaten this way and actually when I looked at them, looked pretty large an healthy.

I don't know. The people at Petsmart aren't very knowledgable but at least they're making an effort. Compare them to Walmart where dying fish are just left there or the bettas in the tiny cups never get water changes.

[goldenpuon]

(Sorry for the rambling in my last post, for some reason I just starting going on and on about Petmsart. )

I'm very sorry you lost the platies. Have you tried ParaGuard? Carl has said that's an excellent medication for ich. Also, increasing salt and temperature during treatment helps. Also, you said that the ich seems resisent to meds. In that case, are you sure its ich? Just making sure.

Best of luck Murdock! I hope your fish do better.

[murdock6701]

Feb 17, 2009 10:17:14 GMT -5 goldenpuon said:

(Sorry for the rambling in my last post, for some reason I just starting going on and on about Petmsart. )

I'm very sorry you lost the platies. Have you tried ParaGuard? Carl has said that's an excellent medication for ich. Also, increasing salt and temperature during treatment helps. Also, you said that the ich seems resisent to meds. In that case, are you sure its ich? Just making sure.

Best of luck Murdock! I hope your fish do better.

yes dear and thank you

[jonv]

I find this a good question and topic John. I think what is important to point out here is that "Chain Stores" are by in large corporate and they have contracted obligations to buy certain amounts of fish from certain suppliers, which is all determined far above the local store level. The "wise" people in the board room use their infinite wisdom to find the cheapest route to supply the store. I've never personally attended a board meeting or anything of such, but I question if these people ever factor in, variety, health, and quality of where they are buying from. Of course on that subject however, when we are thinking of commercial type breeders, that breed in mass quantities, we should keep in mind, many commercial type breeders have a very large elaborate set up to do this. Numerous concrete ponds and such. Given this economy as well, I am sure that commercial breeders are doing whatever they can to get any kind of cash flow, including skimping on care levels, and lowering prices.

One of the problems that will arrise from this is inbreeding over time. Such as you saw in the Rams, I'm sure this was an effect of inbreeding. The shipping process as well is an issue, and then if we look at the chain of events too, this doesn't help much. The fish, at least I can say from Petland Discounts, go from the whole saler to the warehouse, to the local store, sometimes within a short period of time of each other. This induces a huge amount of stress on young fish. Then if we take into account the chain stores are unlikely to be keeping proper water conditions for specific types of fish, carry a minimal staff, and how much of that staff have any quality knowledge or experience in keeping fish, I would have to say we really roll the dice when picking up fish from chain stores.

In regards to the Ick John, I would probably say, that if we take into account going from wholesale to store, then to home, the moves of the fish have been fairly rapid, and this is likely to be something they already have and brought out by stress. If you are finding Ick resistant to the typical treatments, I am thinking you may want to consider again the use of Copper. I have discussed that situation with you on the phone, but if the Ick is not responding to the usual treatments, and you are sure it is Ick, that would only leave you with the common treatments such as the heat raising and salt. I'm not entirely confident this is going to rid the issue.

I have never once had an Ick problem until just a couple weeks ago. I used a combination of Quick Cure combined with Copper Sulfate, raised the temp up to close to 90 as well. By 3 days, most of the symptoms and visual signs of the ick were gone. What I found highly unusual in my case, this is the Madagascar/Victorian tank, and it's practically brackish. Salt in this case is highly unlikely to have any effect since the salt levels in the tank were already much higher then my main tank. If you are still worried about the exposure issue with copper, my idea would be to isolate individual fish that show signs to a smaller holding tank where you could make use of gloves to prevent exposure on your hands to water with the copper in it. Increase the salt level and temp in the main tank to try to prevent the spread. Bill may know other alternatives.

[murdock6701]

thanks Jon, your treatment description is exactly what I have been doing right down the quick cure except for the tank temp which I increased to 84 - it has only affected the white platys - the male is dead, thus the breeeding possibilities are over for raising them in my summer pond - will take the sick ones back and tell them to kiss my butt - am still leary of copper in regards to levels of heavy metal exposure w/ my liver, one of the questions I have on my list for the doc next Monday

[babygeige]

I haven't had much luck with chain store fish either, except for bettas. I've bought all 4 of my bettas at Petsmart and have had good times with them. The other fish I've purchased at petsmart have been less than great. Of course, the most recent ones were 6 cories I bought last Feb, and we all know what kind of luck I've had with them, so it may not have been petsmart's fault on that one, lol.

But yes, I was there last week looking at platies. I didn't see any ick, but I did see a lot of shimmying and gasping at the surface. Plus I don't they had any filtration running. There were quite a few dead bodies as well.

[murdock6701]

looks can be deceiving - have to admit though, ick on a white fish is really hard to see, especially in the early stages - all the other varieties of fish I bought seem hardy and are ick free

[eve]

i completely stopped buying fish form petco and petsmart for exactly that reason
they would all die in a matter of a week, and i'm just tired of it

so now i'm buying them only fro my LFS, which i know take care of them
every time they do get fish in, those fish are not for sale for at least a week

[brenda]

I have to say that around me the Petco's are absolutely horrendous but the Petsmarts are actually pretty decent in my area. I don't buy from them anymore as I can't get the fish I am keeping from them. I never had any problems with my petsmart fish when I did buy from them. I think it just depends...

[goldenpuon]

John are your platies doing better now? Just wondering in case you still need help with the ich. Hope they're cured.

Renee

[bikeguy33]

i do have a suggestion john.....your daughters come over often....talk them into doing the dirty copper work. you have great daughters...i am sure they`d love to help...

[murdock6701]

thanks all - am pretty sure it's under control

[goldenpuon]

That's great! I was worried for a moment there. On other hand, platies make more platies so you'll have your hands full soon.

[corycatwoman]

ive only had bad luck with petco. the petsmart does seem better then petco. but my guppies i got from petsmart werent that great. im hoping i dont have a mass breakout. but my cories and loach have been great and i got them from petsmart along with my gourami hes still kinda new but seems healthy. and most of the employees at my petsmart atleast seem to try there hardest to keep up with the aquarium cleaning and i havent found many dead fish in there tanks either.

[jonv]

For the most part, as the subject header is saying, chain stores are in general a poor place to buy most stock from. There are very rare occasions where you can score a good deal though. For example, that Silver Dat I picked up from Petland Discounts a couple years ago was just sheer luck. I had actually bought one off eBay from a mass breeder, and had their stock die off. The very next day I was just passing in and saw a Dat in their tank. I knew exactly what the fish was on sight since I had been hunting one on the internet. This is a fish you will not normally see sold in stores on top of it.

If I go into a chain store, it's usually when I need something right away like I ran out of food or need a med that ordering via AAP will not get here on time. I will scan over the tanks from time to time just wondering what they might have. Every now and then they have some decent looking Aulnocara Peacocks of various colors, but that's about it.