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Post by murdock6701 on Feb 7, 2009 14:37:45 GMT -5
need their own tank as well.....couldn't just put females of both species in one tank and males in the other....
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Post by jonv on Feb 7, 2009 14:43:32 GMT -5
Actually I don't think this would pose a problem if you wanted to female tank and male tank it. One is a mild Mbuna, the other a Victorian basin. I doubt the males would try to challenge each other. Slightly diffferent diets but not totally incompatible either. The Yellow bellies would accept flakes.
I have to set up my 20 again as it is. Found a second Zebra holding, and the 15 occupied. I can always try this out for a few months in my 20 and see how it goes for you.
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Post by jonv on Feb 7, 2009 16:41:32 GMT -5
Worth mentioning too, I'm doing the 20 gallon in crushed coral, so the need to use buffers in that tank should be very minimum and I can concentrate my Rift Lake salt I got from Carl on the main tanks. This stuff is a pain in the rear though. I didn't realize you should rinse this before hand and I'm on my third water change to keep it so you can actually see in the tank. As soon as I get this cleared out, I'll start acclimating the 2 holding zebras to it. I took my AC 20 from my 15 gallon and tacked it on to this so it will have a mature filter. I've been putting in some flakes to provide an ammonia source for the bio filter. Set it up last night, and still clearing out the cloud.
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Post by Carl on Feb 7, 2009 17:43:16 GMT -5
Keep in mind Jon that the use of Crushed coral for buffering is over rated. I have performed test in marine tanks which already have many buffers (carbonates) in the water and then added organic acid producing wastes and watched the alkalinity and ph drop unless added buffer were added. There is a very simple reason for this; crushed coral doe not have many carbonates or bi-carbonates which are the alkalinity buffers (referred to as KH in FW). Even for the addition of other mineral cations, crushed coral does not respond quickly to impacts on this due to bio load, which is a reason for many high end marine aquarists to use calcium reactors. This is not to say that crushed coral does not help in African Cichlid tanks or marine tanks, it definitely does, but no where close to the level many think it does, especially under high bio loads I discuss this in the KH section of this article: AQUARIUM GH, KH, Ph, MINERAL CATIONS/ELECTROLYES; Importance maintaining healthy positive calcium ion levels, GH, pH, KH and electrolyte levelsCarl
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Post by jonv on Feb 7, 2009 20:16:02 GMT -5
Good point there Carl. Didn't know that but I'm sure you listed that on the article, which I have read over, but can't retain every point. Of course I'll say this. Had I known this crushed coral stuff clouded up so bad and you should rinse it out ahead of time, I'd have gone sand or gravel. I got talked out of sand by Vinny mentioning that in a small tank like a 20, you'll more likely clog your filter. I've changed out and vacuumed in the tank and I still can't get this cloud out. I hate to think this, but I might have to empty this out and wash it in the sink.
I need to get this done soon too. One of them zebra's looks like her mouth is about to explode and the 15 is occupied.
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Post by brenda on Feb 7, 2009 20:24:25 GMT -5
It will settle Jon but I know the feeling. When I changed my big tank over I used argonite sand...It was a milky murkey mess, I was worried...It was pretty much clear the next day. So maybe let it settle over night and see what happens. My filters did an awesome job of clearing everything.
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Post by jonv on Feb 7, 2009 20:43:27 GMT -5
It's getting there Brenda, but if there is still some residual powder that kicks up from time to time, is that a danger to the fish? I also think I figured out what's wrong with the male Pytcho. I was looking at the fish in the 100 today, looked a bit closer, and I have my very first case of ick. I thought I saw air bubbles on the fish, but when I looked closer, it's like sprinkled salt. I already ran a dose of quick cure and just to make sure, I ran a treatment of copper sulfate.
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Post by eve on Feb 7, 2009 20:44:50 GMT -5
well, it really doesn't matter what substrate you use, you're always suppose to rinse it the only one no need to rinse is livesand for marine tanks dont' take it back out, it will settle on it's own
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Post by bikeguy33 on Feb 7, 2009 20:45:30 GMT -5
silly to mention jon....but no inverts i hope?
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Post by brenda on Feb 7, 2009 20:52:35 GMT -5
I would think the fish would be fine...I was assured it would be fine to put my fish back even though I couldn't even see thru the tank...And they were fine.
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Post by Carl on Feb 7, 2009 21:04:35 GMT -5
It will settle as Brenda stated.
One plus of this dust after it "settles in" is this has more surface area, so the minerals and few carbonates available will provide more of the buffering you seek.
I have noted better buffering with the more "dusty" Carib Sea brand crushed coral. This is no to say not to rinse, but I only rinse a few times, so as to preserve some of this benefit.
Never had a problem with this dust harming fish.
Carl
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Post by jonv on Feb 8, 2009 12:56:04 GMT -5
Bill, nope no inverts nor plants. I'd put in a dose of quick cure just in case. On EastCoastCichilds, when I was responding to a question asked about Pytchochromis Oligocanthus, in that I wrote my observations on this species, and subsequently what's happend since, one person mentioned this sounded very much like Ick which kind of surprised me. I've never had Ick in my tanks that I knew of. Since all other courses of actions weren't producing any results, (large water change and followed by smaller a couple days later, increase of salt and buffer salt) I decided to dose quick cure. I figured ok 1, if it isn't ick, the medication may be effective on something else if that is what's causing the unusual behavior, and 2, if it isn't there shouldn't be any negative side effects from a dose of that.
Now I look yesterday, when I thought I saw air bubbles on these fish, what I found was not bubbles but the white powder spots, so I'm glad I did put in quick cure now. But just to make sure there isn't any secondary parasites, I also decided to add in the copper sulfate.
Carl and Brenda, the 20 gallon has cleared quite well after several vacuum changes right in the substrate to remove as much free floating powder as I could. Temp is still a bit low, closer to 76 where the tank they are in is pretty steady at about 79.8 to 80.2. I got a nice digitial thermometer. What I plan on doing is filling a bucket of the 180 gallon tank water, put the holding zebras in that, and do a cup acclimation in the bucket, while I'm doing a water change in the 180 anyways. This way, I reduce my odds of shock into a new tank that's mostly de-chlorinated tap, and not matched up with the water in the tank they are comming from, and cleaning my tank at the same time.
I also found in close observation last night, since I sold and weeded out most of the extra male Flavus, and brought back only the known females, the father of those fry had been going nuts all over the tank. I can see at least one of those females are holding, and found one I don't know what to make of it. It has 3 egg spots on the body, and occasionally will color up like a male, however, the mouth appears to have a small buldge, the gills are slightly pushed out like a female that would be holding eggs, and every now and then, it will clamp it's mouth like it's swashing water over eggs. Very very odd and I don't know what to think of it. If it is really a female that just has a high number of egg spots, the brood in there is very small to where I don't want to pry it open to confirm. Likely a first spawn here and I don't want to risk losing maternal instincts. But there is a bigger older female that I can clearly see the bulge in the throat. Now I'm going to have to think where the heck I'm going to put her. The Protomelas Fry are only going to be a week old come tomorrow and not ready to be in any large tank. I may try to divide the 15.
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Post by jonv on Feb 8, 2009 20:23:10 GMT -5
Well trying to move the holding Zebra's didn't work out quite so well. I netted up the first one, was putting her in the bucket to acclimate her from 180 gallon water to the 20 gallon water, she just spit all the eggs out. I put the eggs in the bucket with her, she wouldn't have anything to do with them. I tried to reach Carl and see what to do at this point, but Carl had business going on, so I grabbed up Vinny, who indicated that after about 10 minutes not with mom, they are pretty much gone.
I netted, but held in the tank, the second female to see if this would happen again, and it started to. She ditched a few eggs, so I let her go right away. She still has a brood in there, just short a few eggs. The eggs I'm sure were fertilized, as they were a deep brown looking in color. Oh well, too soon to move them.
Again though I did find that since I removed 9 Flavus males, the dominant male has been going nuts all over that tank, chasing a now higher female to male ratio around the tank. Still a few stray males in there that will color up when he's not around, but much less then before. One female is now holding a very nice sized brood in there, and I can see the eggs in her mouth, which she can hardly close. Going to have some nice fry comming in a couple weeks here. I've also seen the male Kenyi's trying to entice the females. I have been emailed that one of my contacts obtained 2 female Nimbo's as well. Let the 09 breeding season commence!!!
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Post by jonv on Feb 10, 2009 21:14:55 GMT -5
Now found the female lab holding yet again. The male went into an enclosed cave I made this weekend, will take a pick of it, dug out in there, lured her in and bang. Just happend today as I've been watching the Zebra's and flavus, found her with a fat pouch in her mouth. A nice big bulge too. I'm betting this spawns going to top 40.
I talked to 8 about this way back but I'm kind of wondering here. Basically with the Flavus, the father spawned with his daughter. Sounds sick but it happens quite often. Anyways, if he's an F1 and her mom was F1, she's an F2. What do you get if you cross F1 with F2?
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Post by barbara on Feb 11, 2009 7:49:01 GMT -5
F1 X F2 equals F2...with an F1 parent. I've seen this discussion on other forums, and that's the way I've seen it stated.
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Post by jonv on Feb 19, 2009 0:28:58 GMT -5
It well appears now that the male Pytcho is starting to act like he used to. He's begun work on a very nice deep pit relatively in the same area when they spawned last time, and no longer is staying just at the top of the tank only. It's a mixed blessing really. I am half in the process of looking to relocate everything out to the house by the end of the month. My luck here, he's going to get those females to spawn, and I'm going to have to take that tank down.
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Post by jonv on Feb 19, 2009 0:34:10 GMT -5
Sorry for the late on that too, thank you Barb.
Well I mentioned as well to Bill the other night, and mailed to John among other topics, I have a very very unusual Flavus. The bigger one that had a nice pile of eggs has apparently aborted that attempt and probably was her first time so I am not deeply down about this. However, I now have a Flavus that has three egg spots, will color up and flash brown and yellow like a male, however, is pursing the lips down, has a very small bulge in the throat/mouth, I can see something is in there, just not very clear what, appears to be eggs, and has the gills slightly flared out like you see in a holding female. Yet, it will half the time, display male colors. Very unusual and have not seen this in a dimorphic Mbuna. I'm sure it can happen I just never have seen it.
The Zebra transfer didn't work out so well a couple weeks ago. One female spit the pile of fertilized eggs all over the net and bucket when I was isolating. I tested the second female by trapping her in the net while in tank, and a few eggs came out, so I let her go right away. She still had the brood, but 10 days later, abandoned the attempt. Oh well, four females and 2 males I'm sure they'll go at it again.
Initial counts on the Protomelas spawn appear to be in the 30-40 range. Yellow lab going into second week holding now, and a day after the spawn, i could already see a BIG pocket in the mouth. I'm thinking this spawn might go well over 40. It's a big pocket.
The fulu's appear to have a second male emerging. Not quite coloring up, but I'm rather amazed at how big these two are compared to the other four. I have to assume this is a second male.
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Post by jonv on Feb 19, 2009 15:48:24 GMT -5
Jackpot!! I found a seller of younger Paratrolpeus Menarambo's going about 15.00 a fish! This is golden! Considering the full grown adults go for 10 times that I have no problems getting a group and growing them out. www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcichlidso&1235256462The Protomelas Steveni Albino's spawned again today, watched them go at it while on the phone. Saw her drop at least 50 eggs too. 2 weeks from her spitting her last group. The male Pytcho too, digging away like crazy making his pit. Looking at a move somewhere in the March 7-9 time frame, so if they are going to do it, I hope they get to it and soon.
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Post by jonv on Feb 22, 2009 0:29:55 GMT -5
With his pit dug out and going, I've been seeing the bigger female spending time down there with him in it. Her tube as well as his I am seeing open and exposed so I think, crossing fingers here, there should be some eggs laid almost any day now. He's being a very active and happy male.
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Post by brenda on Feb 22, 2009 11:52:10 GMT -5
Cool Jon, I'll keep my fingers cross as well.
Any word on the Menarambo's?
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