|
Post by brenda on Sept 14, 2008 15:41:32 GMT -5
I was wondering what you guys thought...I have 2 OB peacocks that were thought to be female but I am wondering if maybe they are both male...Here's why and what do you think? #1 OB always was chasing #2 OB. #2 OB would hang in a corner of the tank except to eat. Well when I put my male Rubescen peacock in #2 OB would chase the heck out of him. So I moved #2 OB to my 16 gallon for a "timeout". Well #2 OB seems quite happy and has put a lot of time into moving all the gravel from quite a large spot on the bottom of the tank so it is completely clear. Does this sound more like something a male wanting to breed would do? Do you think both my OB's are male and that is why #1 OB chases #2 OB and #2 OB chses my male Rubescen?
|
|
|
Post by murdock6701 on Sept 14, 2008 16:37:41 GMT -5
no idea honey - sounds like a Bill or Jon question.....sorry
|
|
|
Post by brenda on Sept 14, 2008 16:46:17 GMT -5
Thanks anyways John!!!
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Sept 14, 2008 17:28:15 GMT -5
I was wondering what you guys thought...I have 2 OB peacocks that were thought to be female but I am wondering if maybe they are both male...Here's why and what do you think? #1 OB always was chasing #2 OB. #2 OB would hang in a corner of the tank except to eat. Well when I put my male Rubescen peacock in #2 OB would chase the heck out of him. So I moved #2 OB to my 16 gallon for a "timeout". Well #2 OB seems quite happy and has put a lot of time into moving all the gravel from quite a large spot on the bottom of the tank so it is completely clear. Does this sound more like something a male wanting to breed would do? Do you think both my OB's are male and that is why #1 OB chases #2 OB and #2 OB chses my male Rubescen? Can you get a picture Brenda (your a great photographer)? I have had many OBs over the years as these were very popular with my clients, so apic may help, but from your description they both seem to be male especially due to the #2 hanging in the corner which is VERY common behavior for a submissive male. Carl
|
|
|
Post by brenda on Sept 14, 2008 17:45:34 GMT -5
I don't know if these are good enough...Let me know. OB peacock #1 OB peacock #2 (this is the one in the 16 gallon right now who is moving gravel to clear spot on bottom of tank)
|
|
|
Post by jonv on Sept 14, 2008 17:58:36 GMT -5
This is one of those cases where all the mixed colors doesn't really allow you to look at the colors and patterns to see the male female differences, and a case where all I have to go by is something not very exacting. Maybe Bill is better with these, but I'm going to say that Peacock 1 is a female and Peacock 2 is a male. I'd be willing to bet the ranch if I had one, that 2 is no question a male. The sheer number of egg spots, and I hate to use that only, but that's all we got. Females will have some sometimes, but not THAT many. I can count at least 8-10 spots on peacock 2 and will say that is a male. Hard to say on 1 because an absence of them doesn't exclude this as a submissive male or a male that isn't showing spots clearly.
|
|
|
Post by brenda on Sept 14, 2008 18:12:40 GMT -5
Sorry Jon but what do the egg spots look like? You know I am new at all this.
Also as I said OB #2 has clear a large spot of gravel down to the glass in the 16 gallon. Wouldn't this be more male behavior then female. Which would make sense as to you thinking #2 is a male.
Oh also, would that make sense though if OB #1 were a female that she would be dominent over a male if in fact OB #2 is a male?
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Sept 14, 2008 19:37:50 GMT -5
Sorry Jon but what do the egg spots look like? You know I am new at all this. Also as I said OB #2 has clear a large spot of gravel down to the glass in the 16 gallon. Wouldn't this be more male behavior then female. Which would make sense as to you thinking #2 is a male. Oh also, would that make sense though if OB #1 were a female that she would be dominent over a male if in fact OB #2 is a male? Brenda, the egg spots are the four whitish spots on the anal fin; these are thought to cause females to think these are more eggs and she then goes to retrieve them. At this moment the male releases his sperm and fertilizes the eggs in her mouth. I do not see them in OB #1, however the way OB #1 is turned in the pic makes the anal fin hard to see, as IMO, #1s actions and even color still more indicated a male to me. #2 is clearly a male based on the egg spots and color. Carl
|
|
|
Post by brenda on Sept 14, 2008 20:19:03 GMT -5
Ok, I see what you guys are talking about. I went and looked at OB #1 and it is what you see in the pics...There are none. However the fins on OB #1 are orange and blue so if there were maybe we wouldn't be able to see them. As you said Carl and from what I notice though the behavior of OB #1 are more like a dominent male, because OB #1 is clearly dominent over OB #2. Would a female be like this?
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Sept 14, 2008 22:06:56 GMT -5
Ok, I see what you guys are talking about. I went and looked at OB #1 and it is what you see in the pics...There are none. However the fins on OB #1 are orange and blue so if there were maybe we wouldn't be able to see them. As you said Carl and from what I notice though the behavior of OB #1 are more like a dominent male, because OB #1 is clearly dominent over OB #2. Would a female be like this? I have not observed this myself, this is male behavior from what I have seen , but maybe Jon or Bill have seen otherwise. Carl
|
|
|
Post by bikeguy33 on Sept 14, 2008 22:31:08 GMT -5
well i do agree that the second is a definate male without a doubt. but as was stated, the lack of egg spots won`t neccessarily make the other a female, but I am betting it is. Later observations and growth etc will tell for sure. very often peacocks are very difficult to sex at this age, but I do think we are right on this one.
btw, these are stunning examples of these peacocks. congrats on finding such a beautiful pair.
|
|
|
Post by brenda on Sept 14, 2008 22:42:36 GMT -5
well i do agree that the second is a definate male without a doubt. but as was stated, the lack of egg spots won`t neccessarily make the other a female, but I am betting it is. Later observations and growth etc will tell for sure. very often peacocks are very difficult to sex at this age, but I do think we are right on this one. btw, these are stunning examples of these peacocks. congrats on finding such a beautiful pair. Thank you...I take that to heart because I hand picked these 2 out of a tank full of OB's. They stood out among the rest.
|
|
|
Post by brenda on Sept 15, 2008 8:59:02 GMT -5
Well OB #2 seems like he wants to breed. He is in the 16 gallon right now by himself and has clear a big spot of gravel on the bottom. Should I put OB #1 in there and see what happens? I would just really have to watch them because OB #1 has always been dominent over OB #2 so I don't want him/her to cause problems since they would be in a small tank. If they were to breed that would for sure answer the question...if not well then maybe OB #1 is a male also...he /she sure is dominent like a male would be.
|
|
|
Post by jonv on Sept 15, 2008 12:21:15 GMT -5
Sorry I got a little side tracked Brenda.
Look at OB 2 specifically the anal fin. I can see about 8-10 spot areas. Those little dots that look orange? See with an OB like that, it's hard to make these out. ON typical Malawi though like the Elongatus or my Flavus, you can't miss them. They are usually white and stand out from a distance. Spots on the anal fin like that are sometimes, but not nearly all the time, an indicator of a male. I have females that have spots on their anal fins too, which is why I was saying, I wouldn't sex a fish based just on that. In the case with an OB here, it's ALL I have to go by.
If you want to specifically try to breed these two, it's up to you. I never have put a male and female togeather in a small tank with hopes of breeding. All my spawns occured in the larger main tanks. I just let things go as it goes, and take a couple times a day to scan over the tank, see how they are acting and of course water changes take quite a few hours and I get to watch them really close up at that time. Who knows, maybe I've missed a female or two that actually had a brood and they all got eaten that way lol.
The drawback to me about putting male and female into a small tank is if they don't breed, or the female isn't ready, you need to keep an eye on them or the male is likely to beat the hell out of her.
|
|
|
Post by brenda on Sept 15, 2008 13:11:31 GMT -5
Well in this case if OB #1 is a female it is not her I worry about, it would be OB #2 (the male) because whether OB #1 is male or female it is clearly dominent over the male that is in the small tank right now.
Speaking of breeding...Is it weird that my Sunshine peacocks have not yet spawned. I have had them for about a month. Am I doing something wrong or is this normal?
|
|
|
Post by jonv on Sept 15, 2008 13:21:41 GMT -5
Some species can take longer to reach sexual maturity and why I was really surprised you had some of yours spawn so soon. Much in the same way with Betta breeding, you have to condition males and females for spawning. I usually try to push up the protein foods when I hope breeding will occur. If you have the proper boundries and flat surface areas for males to lure females onto, that's one part of the puzzle, but if you don't offer enough live foods like bloodworms or brine shrimp, even Krill, females can't produce eggs without it. Conditioning is the other factor along with water chemistry that are the major pieces to breeding. I don't think your water is an issue and you seem to have a good set up from the pics, so the only thing left that might not be in balance is the food aspect.
|
|
|
Post by brenda on Sept 15, 2008 13:36:56 GMT -5
Yeah, my water is good...Maybe I need to put some more smooth rock in the tank.? I wouldn't think my feeding would be a problem but maybe...I don't feed any live food but here is what I do feed...
Spirulina flakes omega 3 flakes HBH super soft krill pellets
Frozen Sirulina brine shrimp plankton glass worms market shrimp
|
|
|
Post by jonv on Sept 15, 2008 13:48:12 GMT -5
That's a good balance but it just takes time sometimes. I mean it's funny how things work out. I bought a group of Electric Blue Haps off ebay last year, in July. The male just started showing his deeper blue in the pics I posted just this year around March or so. Sometimes some fish just don't show or display breeding aspects until later in it's life, some much sooner.
From all I've read, many fish will be ready and able to breed as early as six months of age. I've had a fish, spawned in my own tanks, grow in about that much time, and then in turn spawn for herself. It happens. There was something else I read over one time about how this isn't always a good thing when fish start spawning too soon. Basically, the post was saying that early spawning in fish will lead to protein being used to produce eggs or sperm instead of growth. Carl would probably know more about how accurate that might be.
|
|
|
Post by brenda on Sept 15, 2008 14:07:01 GMT -5
Well then I just keep waiting. I just don't want it to be something I am doing wrong.
My male flameback has been being weird for the last couple weeks...He isn't try to breed at all (which is fine as long as he's ok) and he's just been hanging out. His color is good but he doesn't seem to be eating as well as he was. Any ideas on what may be wrong with him?
|
|
|
Post by jonv on Sept 15, 2008 14:11:44 GMT -5
Could be nothing at all. It could be a case where a different male is stalking him or challenging him and he's just watching his rear end. Hard to say Brenda, could be nothing, could be getting sick, but I doubt that. I'd just watch and see for now. I mean I saw my Jardini harass and chase the male Nimbo all over the 180 and couldn't figure why it would do such a thing, now two weeks later, he seems content and leaves the just as aggressive Metriclima zebra alone on the same side of the tank. Sometimes they do things but you just can't explain it. I'd just watch over them like you're doing, ready to take action if needed.
|
|