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Post by barbara on Jan 11, 2009 9:36:33 GMT -5
Jon, if you tell Dave what you are looking for, he can add it to an order. He doesn't do a lot of the Madagascar species, but he can probably get them.
I would suggest that you be careful with places like Aquabid to order Victorians in the future. I tend to look at it on a semi regular basis, and I am amazed at the misidentification of species. I'm not the best at identifying fish, but I can sometimes tell when something is NOT what it is marked, and I see that fairly often. Vics are hard to ID at times, it's one of the problems. Females look alike in a lot of species, and the males show similar coloration, when not in breeding dress. Xystichromis sp. Kyoga Flameback, Haplochromis sp. Ruby, Xystichromis phytophagus, Haplochromis sp. Flameback all can look very similar with just basic coloration. And, as I have said, cross breeding can take place in some species, so hybrids are a possibility when not kept correctly. It's part of the probem with Victorians. Be sure to trust your breeder/seller when buying species that have a chance of being a hybrid.
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Post by brenda on Jan 11, 2009 10:52:45 GMT -5
That would be cool if Dave could find those Menarambo Jon...Those things are beautiful but from what I have read VERY rare and I think they may be extinct in the wild, I'll have to check on that. I do agree though that if they're out there Dave could probably find them but they may cost a pretty penny.
Oh, I just looked and yes it appears this species is extinct in the wild.
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Post by Carl on Jan 11, 2009 11:06:28 GMT -5
While I have know experience with Aquabid, several of my friends in the business have told me just what you said about misidentification and worse.
I have had experience with eBay, in fact I was an eBay Turbo Seller Store as well. Admittedly this is my opinion, but from I saw there (which includes many emails to customer service) is I think very little of eBay from a seller and buyers point of view, as well as at a corporate level. This is not just my opinion too, in fact my webmaster guru friend (whom I met in a fish forum) has said similar. I honestly would not recommend buying or selling on eBay as I have found the level of honesty there terrible on so many levels.
I think finding place like Dave's Fish where you know the seller and can trust his/her expertise is worth its weight in gold, even if the price is higher. I myself am baffled at the popularity of Dr. Fosters knowing what I do from inside the industry that person actually buy from them and trust them.
Carl
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Post by barbara on Jan 12, 2009 9:45:16 GMT -5
I find that identifying fish, especially females, is extremely difficult with Victorians. Even some of the males can look incredibly similar depending on what colors they are showing. There isn't a lot of information on Victorians, compared to other types of fish.
What I have found, more than anything, is a lot of mixed information, and bad information on other forums concerning these fish. "Never mix any type of Victorian, they will all cross breed." "Victorians are incredibly aggressive, and will kill any fish you put in with them." Both of these statements are very general, and while SOME Victorians will cross breed, doing homework is essential with any type of fish. Victorians are no exception. Similar aggression levels, different looking females and males, and keeping good numbers will minimize the chances of cross breeding. Also, like any other cichlid, different species have varying degrees of aggression.
I'm certainly no expert on Victorians. I am an enthusiastic newcomer to them. I listen to the experts. I do my own research, and compare what is said on websites to what experienced fishkeepers tell me. I don't mix Victorians without checking sources to see if this will work.
I hope to be able to pass along information, and fish, around the country. I'd like to get other people involved in Victorian keeping and education.
It is extremely disheartening to buy something and find out it's not what you thought, or that it is a hybrid. I've gone thru this myself, and it's difficult to deal with this. That is why I urge caution when buying Victorians. Make sure that the breeder is someone you trust, who knows what they are doing and knows what they have.
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Post by bikeguy33 on Jan 12, 2009 18:21:47 GMT -5
often....even tho a purchase isn`t quite what you thought it was....they are very often surprising in similarities. if they are mislabeled they are usually the same family. i have yet to find even a petstore that correctly labels EVERYTHING.
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Post by barbara on Jan 12, 2009 19:09:30 GMT -5
No, but when you get a mix of 2 species, you can't always tell what the females are. And by breeding them out, you still may not be able to tell. So, it's a little harder with Victorians.
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Post by bikeguy33 on Jan 12, 2009 19:25:04 GMT -5
it is hard.....just saying....i have always just made the best of it....i don`t breed and almost have always kept just males.....so to me....a good looking hybrid is sometimes cool to have....
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Post by barbara on Jan 12, 2009 20:06:09 GMT -5
Yeah, if I didn't breed it would be fine. I am in that boat right now with a female that we're not sure what species she is. She's going to live her life out in my 125 hap tank, and if she ever has babies, they will be left in that tank. We know she's one of 2 species, but they are close enough that breeding her may not show what she is.
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Post by barbara on Jan 14, 2009 12:00:50 GMT -5
In the past couple of days we've had some ups and downs. I lost an Angel, due to aggression, as well as a Kyoga Flameback. I was able to get a few more angels, and that appears to have stopped the aggression. I have divided them into 3 tanks, one I think is a pair, one large with 2 smalls, and they seem to be reassuring each other. The normal Angel tank seems quiet as well.
I have Mbipia cf. Lutea babies, probably 8-10 of them.
Last night, we pulled 3 holding female Christmas fulus, and today one of them has free swimming babies, at a look it seems like a dozen or so.
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Post by eve on Jan 14, 2009 12:21:48 GMT -5
that's awesome about the fry any chance for pictures on them?
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Post by jonv on Jan 14, 2009 12:58:46 GMT -5
Sorry to hear about the Angel Barb. I just got my Fulu's in and I'm in the process of acclimating them now. They are really small, maybe 1 inch max, so not much choice here, they gonna have to go in the 100 or that Venustus is liable to make dinner out of them at that size.
Not sure if it's the cold or just weak fish, they are pretty darn lethargic and not looking so hot right now. I took a couple shots in the bag, best you can get from being in a bag, in case they die. Quite a few of them were laying on their sides, I figured dead, but they seem to be picking up movement a bit now the bag is acclimating to the tank temp. Crossing fingers here. Hope to get to see pictures, if you can get some of your new arrivals Barb.
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Post by barbara on Jan 14, 2009 14:15:26 GMT -5
My camera is broken. I don't know why it doesn't work, just stopped. Going to have to get a new one.
Jon, the sooner you can get them out of the bag, the better their chances will be. Good luck!
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Post by brenda on Jan 14, 2009 14:54:21 GMT -5
Oh, sorry to hear that Jon...Hopefully they make it.
I also had a second batch of P. Chromogynos babies...Looks to be about a dozen or so.
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Post by jonv on Jan 14, 2009 16:55:35 GMT -5
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Post by brenda on Jan 14, 2009 17:12:05 GMT -5
No it is not a bad price...Hopefully the others do well...Where did you get them?
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Post by Carl on Jan 14, 2009 17:19:15 GMT -5
Good deal for $55 Where did you get them? I looked over Daves Rare Fish, he sure has an awesome operation and I can see why Barbara and Brenda like this place. Glad to see we now have three Fulu keepers now, I started a profile for these because of the popularity here: Victorian Cichlids; Christmas FuluCarl
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Post by eve on Jan 14, 2009 17:57:46 GMT -5
Good deal for $55 Where did you get them? I looked over Daves Rare Fish, he sure has an awesome operation and I can see why Barbara and Brenda like this place. Glad to see we now have three Fulu keepers now, I started a profile for these because of the popularity here: Victorian Cichlids; Christmas FuluCarl awesome like the picture you put up carl so whoever writes the profile send it over to me
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Post by barbara on Jan 14, 2009 18:02:36 GMT -5
I went to check on holding females...I have at least 20 Fulu from the one mom! I can't believe how little they are, and that a 1.5 inch female could hold that many babies!
Jon, those look good to me, look like my non colored ones. My male colored up at less than 2 inches, if that helps.
I've got kind of a lot going on right now, but I'll try to work on some profiles.
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Post by brenda on Jan 14, 2009 18:14:52 GMT -5
Good deal for $55 Where did you get them? I looked over Daves Rare Fish, he sure has an awesome operation and I can see why Barbara and Brenda like this place. Glad to see we now have three Fulu keepers now, I started a profile for these because of the popularity here: Victorian Cichlids; Christmas FuluCarl Dave'as is an awesome place Carl!!!! Barbara is lucky to be only 10 minutes away. Very reputable guy and nice on top of it all.
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Post by jonv on Jan 14, 2009 19:26:18 GMT -5
Barb's gonna brain me but aquabid LOL. However, to my defense, I had already arranged the deal with the seller like 2 weeks ago. He had 10 up for 20 dollars or 50 for like 60 dollars, something like that. I mailed him a few times to see if he knew his stuff or not, and he appears to know what he's doing. He's got quite a few tanks and at least says he doesn't have mixes that could cross breed, so I figured ah, what the hell, and figured was a good price. Now that I have heard the input though, if I can locate a seller that has these, from a more professional setting I'd up for that I think.
I now found a 3rd one dead too btw. The body is just outside of the spawning pit/valley/cavern. Hard to say if it got killed there or was already dead and floated over. Hard as well to say what is causing this. My gut feeling is, they were too wiped out from shipping, since when I did open the bag, most all of them were laying on their sides, but every one of them perked up when the bag went into the water to begin temp acclimation. All 10 were alive after a 90 minute acclimation, so I am leaning towards this not being a water chemistry issue. There are 35 of those Yellow Labs in there, and about 2 months of age. They basically are the same size as the Fulu, so I'm also discounting aggression from the Yellows. I think it's a combination of just being too weak from the shipping, plus trying to fit in with the current stock. Sort of a natural selection I guess, but damn I really do like this species very much.
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