Black Moors Eye injury

[redright28]

My six year old Black Moors has been more lethargic than normal lately, and I am almost certain his vision is very poor these days, as he struggles to sense and see his food.

This evening I noticed that he seems to have suffered an eye injury (see attached photo).  His eye seemed normal this afternoon, so I'm thinking he scrapped if against the rocks or an ornament.

I gave him a 25 minute Methelyne Blue Bath (1 gallon of water, 20 drops of blue, and 1/4 tsp epsom salt), and I added a large medicated wonder shell to the 90 gallon tank (approximately 70 gallons of water).  

What can I do to help him?  There are two other goldfish in the tank.  I plan on giving him a Meth bath every 12 hours until his eye is healed.  What else can I do.  I almost added StressGuard to the tank too, but thankfully, I read on your forum that StressGuard creates a toxic environment when mixed with the Medicated Wonder Shell.

Also, any advise on feeding him?  He seems to have a appetite as I just fed the tank Aqueon Goldfish pellets, but he barely moved but did managed to eat a pellet.  In the morning, I was going to try and feed him in his 1 gallon treatment tank before I add the Meth Blue and Espom Salt.

Thank you in advance.

Greg

[devonjohnsgard]

Aug 29, 2019 20:58:20 GMT -5 redright28 said:

My six year old Black Moors has been more lethargic than normal lately, and I am almost certain his vision is very poor these days, as he struggles to sense and see his food.

This evening I noticed that he seems to have suffered an eye injury (see attached photo).  His eye seemed normal this afternoon, so I'm thinking he scrapped if against the rocks or an ornament.

I gave him a 25 minute Methelyne Blue Bath (1 gallon of water, 20 drops of blue, and 1/4 tsp epsom salt), and I added a large medicated wonder shell to the 90 gallon tank (approximately 70 gallons of water).  

What can I do to help him?  There are two other goldfish in the tank.  I plan on giving him a Meth bath every 12 hours until his eye is healed.  What else can I do.  I almost added StressGuard to the tank too, but thankfully, I read on your forum that StressGuard creates a toxic environment when mixed with the Medicated Wonder Shell.

Also, any advise on feeding him?  He seems to have a appetite as I just fed the tank Aqueon Goldfish pellets, but he barely moved but did managed to eat a pellet.  In the morning, I was going to try and feed him in his 1 gallon treatment tank before I add the Meth Blue and Espom Salt.

Thank you in advance.

Greg

View Attachment

Parameters are in check?

I would follow the bath article and consider a wide spread antibiotic treatment. It looks infected.

www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2009/07/fish-baths.html

That's a decent food. If its working, I wouldnt change it.

[Carl]

Can you post water parameters?

For feeding, with a weak fish, I would suggest AAP Spirulina 20
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Spirulina20Food.html

The fish baths are a good idea, I would also recommend using AAP Res-Q when adding the fish back into the tank and with water changes
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquatronics.html#resq

AAP has a specific treatment for eye infections (Eye Fungex), but your picture does not fit the description of what this is meant for. AAP Woud Control would be best swabbed for this
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquatronics.html#wound

As for "in tank" treatment other than the Medicated Wonder Shell, I do not think this is called for at this time. Better Water Changes, especially after 7 days of MWS use may help as much as any medication at this point (along with fish baths which should also include NaCl)

Carl

[redright28]

Thank you Carl and Devon for your replies. I forgot to mention he has 2 other goldfish mates -- my orange/white Oranda passed.

Unfortuentely, I do not have Res-Q and Wound Control. I did see them on your site Thursday night. Is there something else I can put on his wound?

-Water parameters are good I measure them ever few days....for past 30 days averages are as follows:
Ph is around 7.2-7.5 (tested with meter)
GH is around 250. I dropped this from 300 in attempt to reduce algae buildup on glass and ornaments. Due to algae growth, I have to bleach the ornaments every 2-3 months. The ornaments are thoroughly rinsed before going back into tank.
KH 98-120
Nitrate 20-60, I do water changes every 2-3 weeks, add typically add Prime to the tank once reading creeps above 50
Ammonia is typically around .25, sometime it will creep up a little higher. I can never get it down to a yellow/0 reading.

-Yesterday morning I replaced the Medicated Wonder Shell with Melafix, as I thought Melafix would provide better treatment for his eye, Due to the incompatibility (thank you for noting that in your MWS article), I removed the shell.

-I also added 10 tablespoons of aquarium salt yesterday, and will add the final 5 tablespoons today (approximately 73 gallons of tank water).

-He has become very lethargic and shows no attempt to eat within tank. I don't think he moved in the tank overnight and although his wound appears to be healing, his eye is cloudier than 12 hours ago.

- I have been giving him Methylene Blue Bathes w/ 1/4 tsp Epsom Salt every 12 hours beginning Thursday night. Before administering the treatment I attempt to feed him Aqueon Gold pellets in his treatment tank. Although he shows some interest, he does not appear to be eating -- very little possible hard to tell.

- With last night's bath, I've begun to give him Kannaplex. I mix a half of Kannaplex scoop with 7.5 ml of tank water. Very carefully I hold him in my hands and administer as much as I can with a small syringe. With this morning's bath I did the same, but I added Herbivore powder with the mix. SHOULD I REPLACE THE HERBIVORE WITH GROUND UP SPIRULINA 20 FLAKES? I plan on doing this ever 12 hours.

I need to get him to eat.

Thank you for the help.

Greg

[Carl]

Your water parameters appear good.

The Spirulina Flake should not need to be powdered unless being force fed. Often fish that are not eating well will accept this, and if not adding SeaChem Garlic Guard may further help.
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Seachem.html#garlic

Melafix is not likely to help being primarily a first aid, but at this point it likely will not hurt too much unless over used (it is a Redox Oxidizer). I would however suggest for this reason replacing your MWS with a regular AAP Wonder Shell for essential mineral Cations and for its redox reducing properties.
Reference:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication4.html

There is no really good replacement for AAP Wound Control, but you can use Methylene Blue instead

Based on the cloudy Eye, you may need to start using AAP Myacin in the tank and consider AAP Eye Fungex
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquatronics.html

Reference:
www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2009/01/streptococcus-eye-infections.html

Regards;
Carl

[redright28]

Thank you, Carl. Should I use Wound Control,Myacin and Eye Fungex -- all three? I will submit order this mornng based on your recommendation.

Attached is a photo from this morning. His eye continues to become more cloudy.

Thanks,
Greg

[redright28]

In the process of giving him his Meth Bath and hand feeding.  It appears his condition is much worse than I thought.  Here is a close up photo.

After zooming in on this photo, itt appears his damaged eye is noticeably smaller than his good eye, and worse, it looks like his scales are beginning to pop.  I hope I am wrong about his scales.

Your thoughts?

[Carl]

First, sorry for your struggles with your poor Black Moor, you are definitely giving him care many would not even attempt!

Unfortunately, he definitely is looking like a fish with a body that seems to be "shutting down"
I think the "Eye Fungex" at this point would add to sress, plus it is meant for conditions when the eye problem is really all that is wrong.

I would still suggest the Wound Control and definitely the Myacin (in tank)

As well, continue to monitor water conditions and change water as often as possible without interfering with the treatment regimen

Regards;
Carl

[redright28]

Thank you, Carl. I was able to pickup Myacin locally (AAP Erthomyacin) and applied first dosage to the tank.

I am now going to submit an order for the wound control. I will also contribute another small donation for the advise you and Devon provide.

Let me know if there is more I can do with his oral treatment. Again, I mix 1/2 scoop of Kannaplex with a mixture of Hebivore powder or ground Spirulina in 8ml of tank water and apply with a small medicine syringe -- every 12 hours.

Greg

[redright28]

His condition continues to worsen...

[Carl]

Sorry he is worsening

I would not feed him orally at this point, I think the stress would be much more than the benefits

Definitely start treatment as noted asap

Also consider the AAP Myacin for the future, as API Erythromycin is not the same and not as broad spectrum
Reference:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html#erythromycin
Quote from above article:
"It is also noteworthy that not all Erythromycin is equal. Most is sold as Erythromycin Sulfate, which is less effective and even has a lower spectrum of treatment than the preferred but often hard to find Phosphate."

Carl

[redright28]

I did not hand feed him the Kannaplex food treatment this morning, but I did give him a Meth Blue bath w/Epsom Salt...should I forgo this treatment too? I've been doing it every 12 hours. What about Kannaplex, should I drop this too since he is on a tank treatment of API Erthomycine?

I just ordered three packages of AAP Myacin...if possible please include it with my wound control order yesterday, as I selected two day shipping.

Thanks,
Greg

[Carl]

Sept 2, 2019 11:04:10 GMT -5 redright28 said:

I did not hand feed him the Kannaplex food treatment this morning, but I did give him a Meth Blue bath w/Epsom Salt...should I forgo this treatment too? I've been doing it every 12 hours. What about Kannaplex, should I drop this too since he is on a tank treatment of API Erthomycine?

I just ordered three packages of AAP Myacin...if possible please include it with my wound control order yesterday, as I selected two day shipping.

Thanks,
Greg

I would perform just one bath per day and forgo the Kanamycin

As per your order, AAP shows that you ordered three more Wound Control.
AAP sent out an email about this, so please let the store know that you wanted Myacin, not Wound Control.
AAP would need to refund the Wound Control and you would need to re-order the Myacin since it is not legal to access your CC (AAP can only refund, not add to or change and order as per CC merchant agreements/rules)

Carl

[redright28]

He had no interest in Spirullina food last night, and I found him this morning in the same position as last night with shallow breathing.  He did move to a new position this morning , but I am sure it is because one of the other fish disturbed him.  His physical condition does not appear to have changed since last night.

Right now the tank is being treated with Melafix and Erthomyacin, and I need to do a 25% water change this afternoon per Erthomyacin’s instructions.  I don’t want to cause additional stress, but should I give him another Meth Blue bath, and attempt to hand feed him? Should I administer Kannaplex to the tank?

Also, should I consider euthanasia at this time?  I want to give me every opportunity to recover, but I don’t want him to suffer unnecessarily.  Should I wait for the medication to arrive tomorrow?


Thank you for your guidance.
Greg

[Carl]

I would definitely discontinue the use of Melafix, as this is primarily a first aid treatment that is also an oxidizer.
Please Read:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication4.html#melafix

If there is no stress from the baths, these can be continued once per day

As for euthanasia, my personal opinion is to give him every chance, but again this is an OPINION

Carl

[redright28]

Thanks Carl, I will stop the Melafix. Should I syringe feed him when I give him his Meth Blue bath? If so, should add some Kannaplex to the syringe, or apply the Kannaplex to the tank?

Thank you,
Greg

Update....he is unable to remain upright, and is laying on his side. He tries to sit upright but is unable to do so. I gave him a MethBlue bath but did not attempt to hamd feed him. I tried to feed him ground Spirulina, but he was not interested.

[redright28]

He passed during the night.

[Carl]

Sept 4, 2019 6:11:37 GMT -5 redright28 said:

He passed during the night.

I am very sorry to read this, you certainly made every effort to save him

Carl

[devonjohnsgard]

Sept 4, 2019 6:11:37 GMT -5 redright28 said:

He passed during the night.

Very sorry for your loss