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Post by roderick on Mar 20, 2019 9:12:53 GMT -5
Yesterday afternoon we were doing a gravel clean/water change and at some point during the process our denison barb jumped out of the tank. We do not know how long he was out of the water but when we found him he was barely flopping around. We are in the middle of remodeling and there is a LOT of dust from drywall. He was covered in dust and had fallen on a brick hearth. We placed him back in the water and tried to gently wipe off as much dust as we could without stressing him any more than we had to. He does still have what we think is some dust on his eyes. It appears his gills are moving. He is breathing fast. He is lethargic as well. Last night he was swimming slowly with his nose down. This morning he is swimming nose down still but now also sometimes floats upside down at the surface of the water. He is able to right himself, but it appears to be tiring. We added Stressguard to the tank water last night. Is there anything else we can do for him? Is this a swim bladder issue or possibly some other issue?
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Mar 20, 2019 10:52:33 GMT -5
Are you using an electrolyte mineral block? Something for the slime coat?
and all parameters are in check?
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Post by Carl on Mar 20, 2019 11:05:16 GMT -5
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Post by roderick on Mar 20, 2019 11:06:25 GMT -5
Ammonia and nitrite 0, nitrates around 30. I do have a Wonder Shell in the tank. KH is 4 dKH and GH is around 200. I added Stressguard. Is there something else you suggest for the slime coat? I also use Prime and Stability with water changes, which went in yesterday with the water change we were doing.
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Post by roderick on Mar 20, 2019 11:31:33 GMT -5
Thank you both. I do have a fresh AAP Wonder Shell in the tank. I do have AAP ResQ on hand. Exactly how would I apply that directly?
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Post by Carl on Mar 21, 2019 9:23:02 GMT -5
Thank you both. I do have a fresh AAP Wonder Shell in the tank. I do have AAP ResQ on hand. Exactly how would I apply that directly? AAP Res-q will produce a medicated slime coat bandage. Best would be to net the fish and bring it close to the surface (but not all the way out of the water), then use an eye drop or similar to squirt this directly n the fish Carl
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Post by kagome on Mar 21, 2019 17:55:44 GMT -5
Poor baby!
The coating of dust on his eyes might be from scratches when he flopped around on the brick. I had a betta who scratched up his eyes big time when he jumped out of the tank.
I hope he gets better!
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Post by roderick on Mar 22, 2019 7:00:17 GMT -5
Thank you, kagome. His eyes are looking more clear now but he has developed an infection. His swimming is better, although not perfect. He still doesn't seem to have much of an appetite. He has what I am guessing is a Saprolegnia infection. Over the last 24 hours most of his tail fin is gone and overnight he developed white cottony fuzz at the base of the tail where it attaches to the body. I do have a QT I can set up. I read your article on treatment and what I have on hand that you mentioned is methylene blue, Triple Sulfa, Merbromin, Polyguard, and API Fungus Cure. Knowing his recent history and osmoregulation issues, where do you recommend I start?
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Post by roderick on Mar 22, 2019 7:03:50 GMT -5
Thank you, kagome. His eyes are looking more clear now but he has developed an infection. His swimming is better, although not perfect. He still doesn't seem to have much of an appetite. He has what I am guessing is a Saprolegnia infection. Over the last 24 hours most of his tail fin is gone and overnight he developed white cottony fuzz at the base of the tail where it attaches to the body. I do have a QT I can set up. I read your article on treatment and what I have on hand that you mentioned is methylene blue, Triple Sulfa, Merbromin, Polyguard, and API Fungus Cure. Knowing his recent history and osmoregulation issues, where do you recommend I start?
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Post by roderick on Mar 22, 2019 7:04:40 GMT -5
I do also have Bettamax, which has some of the medications you mentioned in it.
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Post by Carl on Mar 22, 2019 9:31:32 GMT -5
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Post by roderick on Mar 22, 2019 10:24:22 GMT -5
Thank you very much. I'm not surprised by the infection. We did what we could as soon as we saw him, but he was in rough shape. I just didn't want to choose a medication that was going to make things worse considering his stress and other issues. I will start with PolyGuard since I have more of that on hand. Do you recommend a Merbromin swab or any baths at this point or just start with the PolyGuard in tank?
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Post by Carl on Mar 23, 2019 9:56:19 GMT -5
Actually you were dealt a tough situation, adding Res-Q right away MAY have helped prevent infection better, and maybe an initial treatment of Melafix, but honestly your response an initial response was good.
Swabbing with Mebromine/Wound Control where there is VISIBLE infection might help (using this product initially when you found the fish would actually add to stress). A Medicated Fish bath with MethyBlu & salt too might be a good idea if it does not add undo stress
Carl
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Post by roderick on Mar 24, 2019 14:12:04 GMT -5
We were feeding him night before last and barely opened the lid to put in the food and he jumped again. At least we saw it right away. He was starting to look better before that. Now his swimming is bad again and the infection is getting worse. His tail fun is completely gone and the fungus is eating his body where the tail was attached. We will try swabbing. I'm not sure how to get him in a bath that he can't jump out of. We'll see if we can find a container that can hold him safely that is big enough. With the infection spreading do we continue with the same medicine or try something new?
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Post by Carl on Mar 25, 2019 9:20:43 GMT -5
Sorry to read your barb is so suicidal I usually covered the bath water with a towel or other object, this also tends to calm the fish. As swab directly on the area of Fungus is suggested Carl
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Post by roderick on Mar 25, 2019 9:33:36 GMT -5
He's still hanging in there but the infection is spreading this morning, so it doesn't look like the PolyGuard is working. It is double the size of yesterday. I do not have the Super Ich Plus you recommend combining with Triple Sulfa or Furan 2 on hand. I do have Triple Sulfa and Furan 2. The ich meds I have on hand are ParaGuard and Ich-X, which I know have different ingredients. I do have ResQ. For the bath, would you still recommend methylene blue and salt or should I try potassium permanganate with salt instead at this point? Is there something I can add to the PolyGuard? Some other medication combination? I have several medications on hand, just not the Super Ich Plus. I do want to thank you for your time. I do support AAP whenever I can and will do so again in the future.
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Post by kagome on Mar 25, 2019 16:07:56 GMT -5
I am not the best to advise you on meds and will defer to Carl's much more extensive knowledge on that. I do know that Methylene Blue is commonly used to keep saprolegnia from developing on fish eggs (saprolegnia LOVES fish eggs).
But, as for a container for baths, a good sized plastic food container with a lid is a good choice. No need to break the bank, one from Dollar General or Walmart will do. If it's clear, drape a towel over it to help keep the fish calm.
He might be jumping even more now that his eyes are scratched up. He can probably only see movement and isn't able to discern what is coming near him.
I'm sorry he's in such bad shape.
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Post by roderick on Mar 25, 2019 17:23:31 GMT -5
Thanks, Kagome. We found a container we can use for him that works well for baths. He had an MB and salt bath this morning and will have another tonight. We also swabbed with merbromin this morning. Unfortunately, we have a family emergency and will have to leave town for a week, so no more baths or swabs until we come back if he makes it that long. We will have to cross our fingers and hope the tank meds work. Our house sitter can do water changes with meds in the tank, so at least we will have that. Unless I hear from Carl before we leave tomorrow I'm going to try a combination of Spectrogram and ParaGuard. Hope the poor guy makes it. He isn't breathing hard, so at least there is that.
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Post by Carl on Mar 25, 2019 19:20:51 GMT -5
I think the problem is the re-injury has made treatment very difficult. I would definitely make sure to use a bath with a strong solution of Methylene Blue
As for PolyGuard, it is pretty good combination of meds that are effective for this type of problem, so I would at least give one more treatment and consider increasing strength 50%
The AAP Spectrogram/Paraguard or Super Ich Plus combination may work where PolyGuard fails, but as I noted earlier, you are in a difficult situation where no medication has a high probability of success
Carl
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Post by roderick on Mar 25, 2019 19:44:58 GMT -5
I don't think our house sitter can do the baths while we are gone, unfortunately, especially since he is a jumper. Can methylene blue be added to the Polyguard in the quarantine tank? If so, would that be done daily, every other day? How much? If we stick with the PolyGuard it will have to be for another week until we return home because I don't think the house sitter can completely empty the water to change medications. Tomorrow will be the third PolyGuard treatment. Thanks again for your help.
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