4yo goldfish w/ cloudy patches. fungus? bacteria?

[joe]

Hi There. I've been doing a ton of reading on these forums and on Carl's site. Been having this issue come and go with my 4yo goldfish, "Dave." As you can see from the pictures below, the issue is cloudy patches (growths?) on the surface of his scales near the dorsal fin and occasionally near gill cover. Water parameters are 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites, and 80 Nitrates, which I realize is too high, and trying to do some water changes to get this back in check. I have purchased GH/ph testers and will check these parameters too. When this issue originally began, I introduced aquatic salt into the tank. Previously I had not been using any salt. Currently at a concentration of 1tb/5g. I then used Pimafix (which I now realize was really just using a band-aid for a more serious problem.) He is the only fish in the tank. So with all that being said, Dave's symptoms and behavior are not consistent. He inhibits some thrashing every now and then, comes to the surface and gasps (or maybe that's just him begging for food?) He is still active and hungry, foraging the gravel at the bottom, etc. and sleeps at the bottom of the tank at night. I purchased Spectrogram and Medicated Wonder Shells. I have not tried Malachite Green or Methylene Blue baths yet. Trying to figure out if this is Costia, Saprolegnia, Columnaris, or some other type of fungus/bacteria/parasite, etc. Any help or further questions I can answer to dial this in are greatly appreciated.

[Carl]

Hi Joe and welcome to EA!!

The patches appear to be Columnaris (not fungus or a parasite)

While Columnaris can be aggressive, this appears to be a very opportunistic infection.

I definitely would test GH & KH, as lack of mineral Cations is a major factor in Columnaris being opportunistic.
Regular partial water changes with mineral Cation rich water might be helpful along with the use of fresh AAP Wonder Shells
While sodium chloride/salt is not needed normally your dosing at 1 tbsp per 5 gallons is a good idea.

A MethyBlu Bath might be helpful, but a direct application of AAP Wound Control/Merbromin would likely be more effective.

Since this infection does not appear too aggressive at this point, you may not yet need to treat the fish in either this tank or a hospital tank, but if it does come to this, AAP Spectrogram would be my suggestion.

Another question is feeding, as some lower quality fish foods can add to oxidative stress.

Further Reading:
www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2016/09/how-to-treat-sick-fish.html
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html

Resources:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquatronics.html
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/MedicatedWonderShell.html

Carl

[joe]

Thank you Carl for your fast reply and well-tested advice. In regards to the feeding, we are using the Omega One sinking goldfish pellets and I alternate every so often with Omega One veggie mini pellets. I've noticed some white stringy BM's occasionally which to me indicates too much feeding (even though he is so big, and I never give more than he can eat in one feeding 3-5min). Based on my reading, the "carnivore" fish food could be limited and a more vegetarian diet could be approached? Thoughts? Also your opinion on Omega One?

[Carl]

Unless very active, a Herbivore based diet is best. Definitely not Carnivore.

As for Omega, I consider them a good brand. However energy levels are too high and fiber content is much too low.

I review this and others here:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html#recommended_foods

Carl

[kagome]

I'm sorry your fish is sick.

I, of course, second Carl. I always second Carl since he has forgotten more about aquariums than most people will ever know

Adding the salt and minerals will also help Dave with his osmotic function. His body won't have to work so hard to push water out as urine and the replacement minerals he needs will be available in the water. Goldies like their minerals.

I had a Columnaris outbreak in one of my tank and Carl nursed me through it.

Good luck!

[joe]

Thanks Carl and kagome. The treatment worked, and the cloudiness disappeared! I've been feeding him the recommended Clay Neighbor's herbivore diet. I saturate the chunks before dumping them in the water. He goes right for them.

So it seemed as thought I was on the right track...

HOWEVER I now am dealing with a new issue. Just occurred yesterday. He is lethargic and fins are clamped. Occasionally I'll get him to come up to the surface, but he's not interested in eating at the moment. I did a 30% water change last night, which cleared up the water which tends to be more cloudy now from the new crumble-style food. Tests showed somewhat elevated nitrates, so I'll do a small 10% water change today as well, maybe tomorrow too. Gently getting the nitrate level down.

Take a look at the pictures below. There is redness and inflammation at his anus. I looked closely and both last night and this morning, there was a small amount of excrement dribbling out. I know that goldfish sometimes suffer from constipation, but I've never seen this redness and his behavior so affected. Worried it could be something else. Maybe he gobbled up the new food too quickly and it had expanded in his system, and now swim bladder issues?? I held off feeding today and hoping the fasting and feeding of peas maybe tomorrow could be the answer. Just want to know if you've seen this redness and expansion issue before.

[devonjohnsgard]

Are wonder shells still being used? Just to keep immunity always boosted.

I would say bloat or constipation also, but I'm guessing. Wondering if a wonder shell would perk him back up.

[joe]

Hi Devon- I used the medicated Wondershell a few weeks ago to help clear up the original issue. That, and diet seemed to do a body good. Used it all up. I have another non-medicated one that I was considering using as GH is in a good place, kH is on the low side.

"Dave" loves to suck up the pebbles and spit them out, sifting/foraging for food when he eats, I know it's very rare but it is possible he swallowed one of the smaller pebbles and now that's blocking his digestive tract? I was able to look into his mouth and throat last night and didn't see anything there in terms of choking.

Do the symptoms match up for bloat/constipation?  Am I on the right track to treat with fasting and peas? Only thing that really concerns me is that redness which is new (resembles a prolapsed hemorrhoid, no?)

[devonjohnsgard]

The wonder shells need to be used continually and replaced timed with a water change. So, the constant electrolytes are always boosting the fish's immunity. You can have a higher or fine GH, but that doesn't need the electrical charge is present keeping the immunity boosted.

How low is the KH, it should be between 3-5, otherwise there could be pH and that's not helping the immunity at all. Then something like an intestinal infection could happen.

If the fasting/pea doesn't work, I would think it's an intestinal infection. Here's a resource to learn how to treat.

Intestinal Issues:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Vibrio_Aeromonas.html#swim_bladder

More about GH Video:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=--qBgwco4a0&t=122s

[Carl]

I agree with Devon's points

resembles a prolapsed hemorrhoid

I agree here too.

You could also utilize a salt and MethyBlu bath with direct application of MB to the area too

www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2009/07/fish-baths.html

Carl

[joe]

Thanks Carl & Devon- Success! I tried an MB/salt/epsom bath for 30m and water changes over the course of the last few days. Tried 24h fasting/peas/wonder shell as well. The behavior and hunger have improved dramatically, as well as the redness issue above. "Dave" is back!

[devonjohnsgard]

yaaah!