What type of algae is this, and what can I do?

[Jenee']

Hi everyone-

I have been struggling this past year with recurring algae, and I'm not sure which type it is.  I thought it may be hair algae, but it doesn't grow like photos I've seen of it.  More cloudy/gelatinous and less stringy.  It doesn't seem to fit into the other algaes I've read about, either.  It grows very fast, from a slight  thin coating to 1-2 inches of a thick, cloudy growth around leaves within a couple days.  It coats the plants, glass, gravel, heater, sponge filter - everything.  When I try to clean the glass and items in the tank, the algae does not hold together - it just disintegrates and free floats, creating a cloudy mess.  Then it settles on everything and keeps growing.  The attached pics are the early stages, just after I tried to clean the glass.  The plants have been removed for cleaning.  
  

I have tried multiple times to clean the tank completely, including boiling the gravel and plants, but it shows up again within a couple days to a week.  I do partial water changes (25%) every week.  I removed live plants and replaced them with silk and plastic so that I can easily clean the plants of the stuff.  I am so frustrated.   I don't want to do frequent complete changeovers, so lately I just take out the plants every week or so, vacuum the gravel and clean everything the best I can. 

I was concerned about how all this could affect Drogo, especially breathing in that nasty water.  Sure enough, he has started to get a frayed tail fin, so I treated him with furan 2 for finrot - hoping to nip it early before it became advanced.  I also did daily methylene blue baths for several days.  It did not improve, and progressed to a cloudy eye, so I transferred him to an empty 1 gallon hospital tank I have running and have been treating him with metroplex and kanaplex.  Now the cloudy eye has progressed to popeye, and he is staying on the bottom of the tank.  I don't know what else to do without doing more harm than good.  

My water is high PH, running around 7.8 to 8.2.  (We  have a small water company sourced from well water in the Oregon Cascade mountains.)  I have tried using bottled spring water (testing 7-7.2 straight from the bottle) but the PH in the tank will eventually still rise to that high level. ()  I have quit chasing the PH this past year, (which was hard to do) since the KH and GH are consistently within range, but I am still uncomfortable with the high PH for my bettas.  Could the ragged fins be a result of long term high PH exposure and not finrot?  It always seems to hit around 9-12 months after I get a new betta, and happens nearly overnight.  Fortunately, I believe my other parameters are good.  0 nitrates and nitrites, 0 -.25 ammonia, KH is consistently around 5-6 and GH runs from 11-12.  I have a 5 gallon tank on a bookshelf in a dark corner that gets very little natural light.  I have a 6w light bar with 7k LEDs, and a mini sponge filter from AAP.   I use Attison's BettaSpa along with a piece of natural Indian almond leaf for the high PH.   I also put in a 1/4 shell of AAP's small Wonder Shell every few weeks. 

I don't have the ability to sink a lot of money into my betta tank.  I know they are overbred and genetically weak, but I would hope they should live longer than a year...  I just love these little guys with their big personalities - but I just can't watch them wither away anymore. 


1.  Any recommendations for the algae?  Browsing the forum, I saw something on maybe using Flourish Excel?  If so, how much and how often?

2. Any other suggestions on what I can do for the high PH without spending a bunch of money on a special set up?  I don't want to get another betta if I consistently lose them in the same way.  Maybe try a few community tank fish that tolerate high PH instead?  I will miss my bettas...

Thanks in advance, everyone.  This forum is great and the people are so helpful and generous with their time.
Jenee'

[devonjohnsgard]

How long are you running your lights. I would do max 4 hrs right now. And excel is a good idea. If it's slimy, makes me think its bacteria attaching to the algae.

If you pH keeps swinging up, maybe a nice of Malaysian diftwood.
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/MangoWood.html

[Jenee']

Thanks, Devon. I never thought of it as algae mixed with another culprit. I will cut back on the lighting. I usually turn it on around 9-10 am and off around 8 at night - thought I would simulate similar to sunrise/sunset. I'll cut back and order some Excel.

[kagome]

Here's the thing, algae is fueled by three things: nitrate, phosphates and light. It looks like you've got green thread algae. Flourish is good if you've got green spot algae, the kind that laughs at you if you try to scrape it off the glass. But for the thread algae, the phosphates and other ferts in the flourish will be like putting gas on a fire. You do have a few options to try to beat it back. I know that you said you don't have a bunch of money to sink into the tank so some of these won't work for you:

• Up the CO₂- adding more carbon dioxide will often beat back green thread. But it's expensive so probably not an option.
• Add liquid carbon - again, kind of pricey, but it can help.
• Less light - like devonjohnsgard said, if you lessen the light, it takes one of the algae's fuel sources away.
• Bring in a cleaning crew - this can be hard in a small tank. Amano shrimp really like to eat green thread, but a betta might also eat them. Amano would also happily munch on the Indian almond leaf as it breaks down.
• Feed less - you can feed less and make sure that there is no uneaten food. If fish are fed more than they need, even if they eat it all, it can really up the phosphates in the water column. Once their bodies have what they need, any extra food is just passed right through their systems and just becomes more waste. As waste and uneaten food break down, they put off tons of phosphates.
• Switch foods - another big source of phosphates is the food itself. A lot of fish foods, even good ones, use polyphosphates as a preservative. Switching the brand of food you use might help.

It's weird that you have zero nitrates in the water but also have ammonia. Those numbers indicate that the tank isn't properly cycled, but you've had it set up for a really long time. Things like fin rot and pop eye are usually associated with high nitrates in the water, although ammonia can cause it, too. The bad water conditions weaken the fish and make it more susceptible to the bacterial infections.

The high pH is its own thing. The harder your water, the higher your pH tends to be. The high mineral content also makes it more difficult for things like Indian almond leaf to bring the pH down. There are still other beneficial things from the almond leaf, like flavanoids, but it can't affect water pH that much. If your water is hard out of the tap, you can probably skip the wonder shells since the minerals are already in there (well water is notoriously hard). This might help the almond leaf have more of an effect on the pH in the tank.

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with the tank, I've been there. I hope some of this is helpful.

[Jenee']

Thank you for the detailed information!

-It is interesting that the small 1.2 gallon hospital tank is right next to the 5 gallon, and it doesn't ever have this algae, even when I had a female betta in it. Makes me think the lights have a lot to do with it.

-The ammonia usually runs 0, but I went through my notes and over the past couple years, I have had a couple of .25 readings, so I thought I would mention it. Possibly due to when I completely changed the water over and the tank was not cycled yet?

-I feed Sanyu betta pellets from AAP, and usually 6 pellets a day. Of course, he gobbles them up and wants even more! It is a very limited ingredient food, and I don't see anything listed specifically for polyphosphates, but it does say "and other minerals".

-I have tried both Amanos and the cherry shrimp, but they never survive more than a few weeks, even when I had lots of plants for them to hide in. They loved the IAL, as do the 2 Nerite snails in the tank.

So I am starting with cutting the light down. Because I moved Drogo to the hospital tank, I figure I will leave the lights completely off in the 5 gallon for a couple weeks and see what happens. In the meantime, I will research the liquid carbon option and see if I can swing that.

And again, thank you guys for the useful information! I greatly appreciate it.

[Jenee']

I was also thinking about adding back some plants to compete with the algae. I used to use hornwort a couple years ago, and now I remember that I didn't have as much of an algae issue back then. But the shedding made a mess, and I was afraid of decomposing needles becoming an issue. Is there another floating plant alternative that competes with algae and is also hardy in high PH hard water?

[devonjohnsgard]

There can be .25 ammonia if there isn't a dense or just smaller filter for the tank. And then the Nitrates are used by algae?

Duckweed does a great job. Or any plant that have the roots in the water and leaf out.

[Carl]

Aug 23, 2018 16:19:09 GMT -5 kagome said:

Here's the thing, algae is fueled by three things: nitrate, phosphates and light. It looks like you've got green thread algae. Flourish is good if you've got green spot algae, the kind that laughs at you if you try to scrape it off the glass. But for the thread algae, the phosphates and other ferts in the flourish will be like putting gas on a fire. You do have a few options to try to beat it back. I know that you said you don't have a bunch of money to sink into the tank so some of these won't work for you:

• Up the CO₂- adding more carbon dioxide will often beat back green thread. But it's expensive so probably not an option.
• Add liquid carbon - again, kind of pricey, but it can help.
• Less light - like devonjohnsgard said, if you lessen the light, it takes one of the algae's fuel sources away.
• Bring in a cleaning crew - this can be hard in a small tank. Amano shrimp really like to eat green thread, but a betta might also eat them. Amano would also happily munch on the Indian almond leaf as it breaks down.
• Feed less - you can feed less and make sure that there is no uneaten food. If fish are fed more than they need, even if they eat it all, it can really up the phosphates in the water column. Once their bodies have what they need, any extra food is just passed right through their systems and just becomes more waste. As waste and uneaten food break down, they put off tons of phosphates.
• Switch foods - another big source of phosphates is the food itself. A lot of fish foods, even good ones, use polyphosphates as a preservative. Switching the brand of food you use might help.

It's weird that you have zero nitrates in the water but also have ammonia. Those numbers indicate that the tank isn't properly cycled, but you've had it set up for a really long time. Things like fin rot and pop eye are usually associated with high nitrates in the water, although ammonia can cause it, too. The bad water conditions weaken the fish and make it more susceptible to the bacterial infections.

The high pH is its own thing. The harder your water, the higher your pH tends to be. The high mineral content also makes it more difficult for things like Indian almond leaf to bring the pH down. There are still other beneficial things from the almond leaf, like flavanoids, but it can't affect water pH that much. If your water is hard out of the tap, you can probably skip the wonder shells since the minerals are already in there (well water is notoriously hard). This might help the almond leaf have more of an effect on the pH in the tank.

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with the tank, I've been there. I hope some of this is helpful.

Excellent detailed information, Thanks Kagome!

This appears to be hair algae as per this article:
www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2008/04/aquarium-algae.html#hair

Please review this article.
Iron can also be a culprit with this algae too

I will add that as per lighting, quality of lighting can make a difference too. Best is a 6500K lamp

Carl

[Jenee']

Thanks, Carl! All the information from eveyone has been helpful.

I turned off the lights in the tank, and the algae has not grown any further. It usually keeps getting longer and longer. The light unit has a night setting with blue lights. There are 6 blue LEDs interspersed with the white lights when on the day setting. I think I will cover them up somehow (paint or electrical tape?) and not allow the blue light. (I've never used the all blue night setting.)

Since I've moved Drogo to the hospital tank and changed meds, he has made a huge improvement. He is no longer laying on the bottom of the tank. He is exploring, eating, and his cloudy eyes have cleared up. He is still paler than usual, but so much more active. I sure hope he continues to do better - I wasn't expecting an improvement, so I am hopeful!

This little hospital tank (1.2G) is a Nat Geo unit that included an all-in-one light, filter and hood piece. It has rarely ever gotten any algae. I am debating about the pros and cons of keeping Drogo in this tank. It is smaller, but the light and algae situation is so much better. I will keep him in it for now, until he is out of the woods and I get some plants and start over with his 5G tank. If I can get it under control, I will transfer him back. I used the 1.2G regularly until I bought the larger tank for Drogo, then I bought a female for the small tank. I had her for a year and a half, and when I lost her, I just kept it running for a backup tank.

On a side note, does the algae infestation affect the gills of my betta? When I try to clean it off the glass and plants, it just breaks away and disintegrates into the water. It is a cloudy mess, and I worry about him "breathing" it in. Is it a cause for worry?

Thank you everyone for your help!!!

[Carl]

I think attempting to cover all or some of the blue emitters is worth a try to see if it helps.

I have never seen/observed a problem with algae that has been cleaned and then suspended in the water causing issues with fish.

Carl

[kagome]

For a quick growing floating plant, I really like Brazilian pennywort. And I do mean quick growing. But it's easy to trim and doesn't put off a lot of waste.

[Jenee']

Ooh, I like that! Thanks for the tip and pic.

[Jenee']

Huge improvement!

I went on vacation, and kept the tank covered in a blackout for the last 2 weeks, and the algae has disappeared. Yay!

Now I can start over. I covered the blue LED lights on the light strip with electricians tape, and I picked up 3 oto cats a couple days ago for an algae cleanup crew. Now I'll just play the wait and see game and hope the algae doesn't return - or at least stays under control with those 2 changes.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed because I would love to put Drogo back in his larger 5G tank. I feel bad keeping him in that small 1.2G hospital tank - especially now that he is looking and acting completely normal. He is eating like a pig again and has been swimming around exploring. His eyes have completely cleared up and his coloring is back to normal. I am so, so happy! I finished up his course of medication just before we left for vacation, (Kanaplex and Furan 2) but I was still expecting him to be gone by the time I returned home. He showed improvement, but still didn't look very good when we left. The only care he had for the two weeks was the pet sitter feeding him.

I'll let you know how the algae goes over the next couple weeks. Hopefully it will be in kept in check!

[devonjohnsgard]

Great news.

This would be a good time to start using SeaChem Excel to prevent the algae from starting again.

[kagome]

I'm glad Drogo is doing better! The Otto cats are pretty darn efficient little algae eaters. The awesome thing is that they like similar conditions to the Betta even though they're from opposite ends of the globe. The big thing with them is keeping up with water changes and making sure they have sufficient aeration. I think they're really cute on top of everything.

[bettarescue]

Just wanted to check in, how is your lovely betta? He make it back to his 5 gal home?