Water parameters for Mbuna

[michal_j]

Hello

I've read www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumKH.html and it's recommended to keep those levels of GH, KH, pH :

GH - 15 - 21 dGH (250-350 ppm)
KH - 8 - 17 dKH (150-300 ppm)
pH - 7,8 - 8,4

I have 79 gallon tank full of Mbuna. Total amount of water in the system is roughly around 63 gallon of water.

My tap water GH, KH, pH are :

GH - 11 dGH (183 ppm)

KH - 7 dKH (125 ppm)

pH - 7,2

I have two eheim classic filters 2217 (full of sera siporax) and 2317 (full of crushed coral www.aquaristikshop.com/aquaristic/Aqua-Medic-Coral-Sand-10-29-mm/365240/).

I am doing weekly water change with amount of 26 gallon (100l).

Should I use buffers to aquire those parameters from article or my levels are ok ?

best regards
Michael

[devonjohnsgard]

I would use something like seachem cichlid salt or AAP wonder shell for GH and SeaChem Alkalinity for KH. As per that article crush coral is crush coral is just ok for stabilizing KH and GH, but not increasing.

"Aragonite, crushed coral, or oyster shell are sometimes employed for KH and GH stabilization, however aragonite and more so crushed coral & oyster shell (as with Wonder Shells) only aid to stabilize KH (they are poor buffers, especially crushed coral) and should not be used in place of a true KH buffer such as Sea Chem Alkaline Buffer when true buffering is necessary due to fluctuating KH or pH whatever the cause may be."

[Carl]

The AAP/SeaChem Malawi Buffer would be you best bet for bringing up your Alkalinity & pH

Resource:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Seachem.html#malawi


AAP Wonder Shells will improve mineral Cations and Redox Balance

Resource:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/MedicatedWonderShell.html


Carl

[devonjohnsgard]

Yes, the Malawi buffer is a better choice. Forgot about that one.

[michal_j]

I would order from AAP but shipping cost + tax + duty will be vastly higher than cost of ordered goods itself

What do You think about using Instant Ocean salt ? I've read that many breeders use it becuse it's cost effective.

I've tested it in a 10l bucket and adding 5g of this salt per 10l of water raised GH 2 degrees, KH was unchanged and pH was 7,6 (0,4 - 0,5 higher).

Then I tried to tune water with MgSO4x7H2O and NaHCO3 and results were :

1g MgSO4x7H2O in 10l of water was + 2°dH
1g NaHCO3 in 10l of water was + 5°KH and + 0,2pH

In conclusion using mixture of Instant Ocean + MgSO4x7H2O + NaHCO3 in proportion of 5:2:2 gave me a result of :

GH - 16-17 °dH

KH - 14-15 °KH

pH - 8,0

I think I can add CaCl2 and raise GH a little higher which will give me readings from Your article ?

Isn't that a good method ?

My tap water have proportions (according to my water supplier) :

Mg = 13mg/l

Na = 78mg/l

Ca = 66mg/l

best regards
Michael

[Carl]

I have used Instant Ocean marine salt, it is an average salt. Better and available in Europe is Tropic Marin

In using salt to bring up numbers, you might increase your NaCl too high for Mbuna

CaCl2 will definitely raise GH, but their is more to it than just the Calcium, as well it would be best dripped to keep an ongoing Redox Balance

Something I have not tried with Mbuna, but would provide all the elements you need in the PROPER BALANCE without the Sodium is using the Tropic Marin Balling Method, just at a lower amount to achieve the numbers we are shooting for.
I know this top notch product is available in your area

Reference/Resource:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/BioCalciumBallingMethod.html

Carl

[michal_j]

I will try this balling method.

We have polish producer called Aquaforest and it's quality is comparable with Tropic Marin. It's getting really good opinions on the web.

Yesterday I've made 50% water change and adjusted over yesterday and today parameters to :

GH - 16

KH - 14

pH - 7,7

I can tell already that fish have more vibrant colors and they are more active. Observing they activity - they seem happier 😀

[devonjohnsgard]

Second balling method.

[michal_j]

You mean so called balling light?

I think that in freshwater it will be enough to add :

CaCl2
MgCl2 / MgSO4 x 7H2O
NaHCO3

and trace elements will be covered by water changes (there is no corals to actually consume those trace elements).

[Carl]

Yes, Balling "light"

Trace elements may or may not be replaced by water changes as not all public water contains what is needed, (which is a reason I recommended this or Wonder Shells)

I would use all three steps, the part C contain major and trace elements. simply use all three at amounts to hit your target numbers which will likely be much lower than in a reef aquarium (so it should last you a LONG time). Part C is difficult to test, so simply extrapolate from how much parts A & B you add to determine how much C

Carl

[michal_j]

I was doing some more research and I would like to ask Carl :

Since lake Malawi water parameters are GH 5,KH 7,pH 8,5 malawicichlids.com/mw01011.htm what is the reason You suggest to keep that high as in this article GH 15-21, KH 8-17, pH 7,8-8,4?

Or maybe You meant Tanganika cichlids? Or You suggest same parameters for fishes of all three lakes (Wiktoria,Tanganika,Malawi)?

Michael

[Carl]

Aug 2, 2017 15:47:32 GMT -5 michal_j said:

I was doing some more research and I would like to ask Carl :

Since lake Malawi water parameters are GH 5,KH 7,pH 8,5 malawicichlids.com/mw01011.htm what is the reason You suggest to keep that high as in this article GH 15-21, KH 8-17, pH 7,8-8,4?

Or maybe You meant Tanganika cichlids? Or You suggest same parameters for fishes of all three lakes (Wiktoria,Tanganika,Malawi)?

Michael

I do realize that Lake Tanganika cichlids live in higher alkaline water, but my numbers are based on experience and knowledge of fish osmoregulation.

Keep in mind that an aquarium is a closed system and therefore changes can happen more quickly. As well there are not inputs from outside sources, especially when it comes to mineral Cations.
GH in particular of as high as 375ppm GH (21dGH) is far from where it could be a problem and provide more mineral Cations needed for Redox balance. Also these higher numbers generally provide for a better rH

I suggest reading these articles, as it is explained in depth

www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumKH.html

www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Redox_Potential.html

Here is a key point from the first article:
"Although many aquarists worry about “too high GH” (based on respiration problems), this is based on long ago proven false myths.
In reality, freshwater generally would take a GH of over 500 ppm to cause this problem.

More importantly as to respiration, the surface epithelia of gills and body surfaces are protected from direct interaction with the environment by mucous and intercellular junctions.
Fish mucous has been postulated to have calcium binding properties.
Mucous is a glycoprotein and could serve as a calcium chelating agent retarding ion loss from epithelial cells as a charged surface coat or barrier and thus is dependent on calcium for normal function.
Intercellular junctions are specialized areas of attachment between epithelial cells preventing the loss of ions and fluids from the membrane which bathes and surrounds the cells beneath.

Reference: MEMBRANE PERMEABILITY, CALCIUM, AND OSMOTIC PRESSURE

In reality when GH is truly "too high" one is providing the opposite positive effect on respiration where by we are providing too much Redox Reduction thus blocking adequate respiration. In other words we need to understand more about aquarium Redox balance whereby too much oxidation or too much reduction can be a problem. Unfortunately most aquarium keepers tend to err on the side of too much oxidation and short change their aquarium inhabitants on the importance of reduction via mineral Cations.

GH is an area of aquarium chemistry where there is a lot of misunderstanding or simply down right wrong advice.
I have received many calls, emails, etc. over the years asking what do about their so-called high GH. Often this GH turns out to be only around 200-300 ppm which is fine for most fish (low for African Cichlids, livebearers and even goldfish do better at higher GH).

This concern is based on old assumptions of respiration in fish, as well as lack of understanding of the importance of positive Calcium ions (as well as Magnesium & Potassium) in the regulation of MANY bio processes in fish including healing, heart function, and regulation of osmotic functions.
As noted earlier, GH even plays a role in pH control in planted aquariums. Similar processes are also at work in marine aquariums, which is why the popularity of Kalkwasser, although GH is not referred to in Marine Aquariums, rather separate Calcium and other tests are performed.
I recommend reading the section later in this article; “Calcium Carbonate”, which explains more about Calcium as well as many of the outside links/references.

This misunderstanding of GH also flies in the face of the best research to date about the importance of Redox in aquarium health and since Calcium and Magnesium play a role in a balanced Redox (as can UVC Sterilization), understanding that you may have a high GH, YET your aquariums Calcium or other Redox reducers may have given up all possible positive charges (cations) to cells (or other bio processes) under oxidation.
It is for this reason, then, that calcium and magnesium supplies MUST be constantly renewed; without this “fresh” calcium, etc. your Redox balance and of course fish (or other aquatic inhabitants such as coral, frogs, shrimp) will suffer!"

Carl

[michal_j]

Thank You very much for your reply. I will read the article about the redox the one about KH I've read but I will do it again for better understanding 😀

In my country we have many so called "internet mentors" they critised idea of keeping parameters that high - that why I asked.

For now I am trying with parameters as You suggested and in my opinion fish are more active and they have more vibrant colors.

Thanks again,
Michael

[Carl]

Aug 3, 2017 10:25:20 GMT -5 michal_j said:

In my country we have many so called "internet mentors" they critised idea of keeping parameters that high - that why I asked.

We have plenty of people like this here too.
Many are self appointed experts by vitue of keeping a one or two aquariums successfully and having a popular YouTube Channel or similar.

The problem is those who critique this show they have little in depth experience and have not done their homework/research.

Much of the research I have done came about after I performed many tests along with observations of the 1000s of aquarium I have kept that showed that what was "popular" among many fish keepers was not necessarily best for long term health and even flew in the face of basic chemisty

Carl

[michal_j]

There is a one guy who didn't made any water changes for year and a half.

He explained that since he is using Tropic Marin Bacto Tricks (the do work in freshwater) to keep NO3 at ~ 5 ppm, iron based PO4 adsorber to keep PO4 ~ 0,6 ppm and another exchange resin to take out DOC from the water it's not neccesary to made water changes.

He also used Kordon Tidy Tank to get rid of "old aquarium smell".

It is Tanganika tank with Tropheus fish.

Michael

[Carl]

Aug 5, 2017 3:21:13 GMT -5 michal_j said:

There is a one guy who didn't made any water changes for year and a half.

He explained that since he is using Tropic Marin Bacto Tricks (the do work in freshwater) to keep NO3 at ~ 5 ppm, iron based PO4 adsorber to keep PO4 ~ 0,6 ppm and another exchange resin to take out DOC from the water it's not neccesary to made water changes.

He also used Kordon Tidy Tank to get rid of "old aquarium smell".

It is Tanganika tank with Tropheus fish.

Michael

I cannot argue this, as one of the major reasons for water changes is DOC, nitrate control.
However often mineral Cations with such methods fall too low.
An rH test would confirm whether or not his tank is healthy

Reference:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Redox_Potential.html

Carl

[michal_j]

This is one of our local internet mentors..

His theories are usually strange 😀