Rapid strain of columnaris? Please help!

[fishguyjosh]

Greetings everyone. New to the forum. The intro: I run a small aquarium program in the San Francisco Bay area consisting of local saltwater and freshwater fish. After vacation a few weeks ago, I returned to find one of my quarantine tanks with 34 of the 38 fish in it dead. There appeared to be a rapid bacterial outbreak in the tank. 3 of my other quarantine tanks now have the bacteria as well. I have tried several treatments, and I wanted to get some input from outside sources.

Initially all affected fish were given a methylene blue bath (double strength for 30 minutes). This seemed to knock back the bacteria on the fish themselves. However treatments on the tank appear to not be working. So the fish keeping getting outbreaks on the weekend when I'm not around to give a medicated bath. The following treatments have occurred with no permanent success:

1. Salt up to 4ppt. This treatment appeared to do nothing to stop the bacteria. However I have kept a the salinity at at least 2ppt for all subsequent treatments.
2. One of my fish diseases books listed copper sulfate as a columnaris treatment. I can assume this did not work because once the correlating med baths stopped during the weekend the infection returned.
3. Minn Fin treatment appeared to be working just like the copper, and, again, during the weekend the infection returned.
4. The final treatment I tried was the Kanaplax/Furan 2 combo suggested on AAP's info pages. Same result. A return from the weekend revealed more dead/infected fish.
5. I also purchased some pottasium permanganate as a med bath. However methelyne blue appears to be the best treatment.

When I arrived this morning to see that the Kanaplaex/Furan treatment wasn't working, I placed the remaining fish in 2 temporary quarantine tanks with regular dose methelyne blue (as I will need the fish to remain there for a day or two). I have added bleach to all the affected tanks, and I will be taking all the water out in just a bit and replacing it with seawater. This water will run through the holiday tomorrow and be replaced by fresh water on Wednesday. Again, all the while the fish will be in a regular dose methlyene blue tank. Once the fish are moved back into their regular tanks, I was planning to place medicated wonder shells and possibly pimifix into the tanks as prevention.

I wanted to see if anyone had any opinions on my last ditch effort to eliminate this and if there were any other suggestions. I have also attached a few pics of affected fish (not great sorry) to help try and ID what it is, as I'm not 100% sure it is a strain of columnaris. I am unable to do a wet slide of a skin scrape. Thanks for any help that anyone can provide!

[Carl]

Sorry for the slow response (working on a holiday schedule and down a key person).

If Columnaris was/is present, it appears more is going on here.
It is hard to tell from the pictures what the parasitic infection is that is going on, but it certainly appears this way (especially with the second pic). Possibly Costia or Velvet, maybe an Ich infestation with advanced bacterial infection covering it up.

The fact Methylene Blue has had some success also speaks to this

I would start by following the procedures here:
www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2016/09/how-to-treat-sick-fish.html


I would use a combination treatment with Furan 2 & AAP Kanaples, but add in ParaGuard or qa Medicated wonder shell (althought he PAraGuard would be stronger while the Medicated WS would be good for follow up)

Further Reading:
www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/01/freshwater-velvet-piscinoodinium.html

www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Ich.html

BTW, welcome to EA!

Carl

[parker002]

As Carl said, the 2nd picture appears to be a parasite with possibly a secondary bacterial infection. Definitely think a combo treatment is in order.

[fishguyjosh]

Thanks for the info. I will also add to the scenario that the top pic was from my quarantine systems, where it appears to be bacterial only. However, the bottom pic is from one of our visitor centers.

I initially saw spots that definitely looked like ich on a fish in the visitor center, but the sudden death of most of the fish and some additional pictures from the staff there read like a bacteria outbreak. There were definitely some factors that triggered to an opening for some sort of infection to take hold. There were some recent additions to the tank. So there was the stress of new fish. However, some of the fish got aggressive and picked scales on other fish. And all of that happened on the heels of a heat wave (and these are temperate native and introduced freshwater fish. I began treating the tank accordingly for ich when I saw spots to appear on a fish that was neither an aggressor or a fish getting picked on. However the fish in the tank quickly developed what appeared to be a "slimy" sheets of bacteria all over them. There are only 2 fish left, but they appeared to have pull through. However I am running a series of Kanaplex and Furan 2 treatments on it. SO I will definitely add Paraguard as a treatment.

The quarantine tanks have had a much more aggressive infection. I do not know what triggered the initial infection. I was out of town, and this happened the DAY before I get back. Always the case right? These tanks usually have a decent amount of salt in them, and they receive different treatments from time to time. So I'm not surprised there is something in the tank resistant to a lot of my usual treatments. The remaining fish stayed in temporary tanks with regular strength methylene blue doses and Kanaplex/Furan treatments. The fish stayed in the tanks for 3 days. The tanks were given 75% water changes each day, and medicine was added as needed. All the while the original 4 quarantine tanks were bleached for 4 hours and replaced with seawater for 2 1/2 days. The tanks were then emptied and refilled with clean water, fresh oyster shell bags, and upgraded sizes of submersible UVs. I know they don't often do much for pathogens but they are quite a bit oversized and at least keep the water clear. The fish have gone back into the clean tanks, and they were given a Minn Finn treatment in the newly disinfected tanks. After the treatment, it was neutralized and the tank was allowed to operate normally for the afternoon. I ended the day with a Sulfa Forte treatment that requires a water change tomorrow and a follow up dose. After all the medication is done, I have some medicated wonder shells and bacteria booster for the beneficial bacteria. I don't often use it, but the tank is starting from zero and already has fish in it.

I'll let you know how the fish look tomorrow morning. Thanks!

[Carl]

You mentioned a couple of things that caught my attention.
HEAT; Columnaris in particular is much more virulent at high temps and should be treated at temps under 75F

SALT: While salt can be helpful and even treat Columnaris in high enough concentrations, I have found that when aquariums are already kept at higher salt levels, it has the opposite stress and can actually increase stress in the fish

Reference:
www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2008/03/salt-in-freshwater-aquariums.html

Better is to maintain mineral Cations such as the use of AAP Wonder Shells

Make sure your UV Sterilizers have the proper flow rate & dwell time. Also make sure the lamp is changed every six months and aONLY a High Output Uv bulb/lamp is used (many now sold, especially via eBay/Amazon are lower output medium pressure lamps)

Reference:
www.uvsterilizerreview.com/2013/10/actual-uv-c-emission-from-uv-bulb.html

Carl

[fishguyjosh]

Yeah I definitely stay up on UV bulb changes. I have quite a few on my systems at work. Fortunately the heat has subsided, and, yes, the treats are all under 75 degrees. I recently bought both medicated and regular wonder shells. So your suggesting valve back on the salt and replace with wonder shell? Do you suggest a low amount of salt remain with the shell? Also should I use any boosting bacteria while the med shell is in or just wait?

As trivial as is sounds, it was fantastic to walk into the aquarium lab today and not see dying fish. The fish in the disinfected quarantine tanks seem to be back to reasonable health. We'll see how the weekend goes...

[Carl]

I would back down in salt with each water change. Keepin in mind that water changes dilute the effectiveness of Medicated Wonder shells, so somewhat of a a "catch 22"

Nitrifying bacteria such as Stability should be added as needed as per ammonia & nitrite readings

Carl