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Post by bgcat249 on May 20, 2017 9:20:09 GMT -5
Hello,
I am writing to you about 2 of 8 flame tetras I have in my 36 gallon bowfront. 3 weeks ago 1 of them started swimming strangely away from the shoal and proceeded to lose color and finally had to be euthanized. No white spots at all, and although having trouble swimming, did try and eat for awhile. Now another one is acting similarily...listing slightly to the side. Thought the first fish might have been elderly but now not sure. Have had them about 9 months. All glowlight tetras (8) and platies (4) seem fine.
I did have a honey gourami for 5 months but thought he died because I poured water back in, doing water change, too quickly and knocked him into something. He was small. (1 in) he never appeared ill.
Water is changed weekly (25%) parameters: NH3 0 NO3 30 NO2 NEGATIVE pH 8
Not aware of this 2nd tetra showing signs of illness added 6 neons and 1 dwarf gourami yesterday, who all appear healthy. May take tetra out today.
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Post by devonjohnsgard on May 20, 2017 12:58:58 GMT -5
How the KH and temp? All good with oxygen? You're using wonder shells?
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Post by bgcat249 on May 20, 2017 13:35:32 GMT -5
Yes I use wondershells and keep at about 75. I don,t know about kh
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Post by bettarescue on May 20, 2017 16:03:23 GMT -5
Just a quick check, did you QT the New livestock?
Also, when the fish was euthanized, what was your choice resulting from? Can you list all the symptoms that made you put it down (for example: lost all color, emaciated and not eating, couldnt swim etc)?
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Post by bgcat249 on May 20, 2017 19:20:09 GMT -5
Symptoms...swimming with great effort by end of week. Loss of color, thin, obviously going downhill. Did not want further suffering
I did a paraguard dip before adding new fish but no ability to quarantine...
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Post by Carl on May 21, 2017 10:26:00 GMT -5
While I am not one to chase pH. 8.0 is a very high number for a Flame Tetra. I might suggest utilizing natural pH reducers such as Driftwood, Pillow moss, and/or Betta Spa. Maintain a KH of about 80 ppm (about 4-5dKH) As for the Wonder Shell, I would use these at about 1/4 dose for these fish As already noted, a QT or at least a fish bath using Methylene Blue or Fish Therapy prior to introduction is always recommended Product Links: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/FritzMardelKordon.html#therapywww.americanaquariumproducts.com/FritzMardelKordon.html#methyleneNot a lot to go on, but there may not be much you can give us either. sometimes it simply comes down to weak stock that may have been exposed to high levels of ammonia or other trauma at some point before you obtained them Carl |
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Post by bgcat249 on May 21, 2017 14:50:30 GMT -5
It is difficult to distinguish the "brown color" pH...7.4 looks very much like 8.0 so could be wrong on that. I do have a large driftwood piece in the tank so am surprised by 8 as well. I did not realize they were that sensitive to pH. I just put a large wonder shell in the tank...will take out and break up. Just flame tetras or all tetras?
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Post by bgcat249 on May 21, 2017 15:15:11 GMT -5
And thank you Carl for the information. I always learn so much from you. Hopefully I can save the rest of them. They are a neat fish.
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Post by Carl on May 22, 2017 9:11:44 GMT -5
It is difficult to distinguish the "brown color" pH...7.4 looks very much like 8.0 so could be wrong on that. I do have a large driftwood piece in the tank so am surprised by 8 as well. I did not realize they were that sensitive to pH. I just put a large wonder shell in the tank...will take out and break up. Just flame tetras or all tetras? I would say most tetras since most come from a South American biotope. 1/4 of a Large Wonder shell will provide the benefits of the Wonder Shell best for a SA biotope Carl |
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Post by bgcat249 on May 23, 2017 8:05:13 GMT -5
Sorry to be a bother I noticed a new "symptom" on my flame tetras. One of them, not the one who is swimming sideways, is missing it,s tail. I have not noticed any fin nipping on anyone else, but on this particular fish the tail is completely gone, as if it had been severed. Looked for any Saddleback lesions but unable to find any. Still eating but takes more effort to swim obviously, poor thing. Fish swimming sideways is still eating and has avoided being netted to take him out. The tetras chase each other but not to the point of bullying. Lasts all of a second or 2. All platies, glowlightS doing fine, AS WELL AS NEW FISH.
Any recommendations at this point?
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Post by Carl on May 23, 2017 8:56:00 GMT -5
My best guess is either this Tetra has lost his tail to other fish or else he was being chased and damaged it so severely, it was lost.
It is normal for these Tetras to chase each other, but not normal to this point. Sometimes low numbers will make this worse.
Carl
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Post by bgcat249 on Jun 8, 2017 8:21:08 GMT -5
Followup and thanks to all who helped with this mystery: one of the platies has shown up with pale, possibly necrotic lesion in tail area so it appears I may be dealing with columnaris again. No stressor to speak of so not sure why. Flame tetra with equilibrium problem still eating and not getting worse. No other visible lesions. Will use the furan and kanamycin again and hope for the best. Thanks again everyone.
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Post by Carl on Jun 9, 2017 9:43:15 GMT -5
Followup and thanks to all who helped with this mystery: one of the platies has shown up with pale, possibly necrotic lesion in tail area so it appears I may be dealing with columnaris again. No stressor to speak of so not sure why. Flame tetra with equilibrium problem still eating and not getting worse. No other visible lesions. Will use the furan and kanamycin again and hope for the best. Thanks again everyone. Sorry to read this. sometimes it is best to change up treatments for Columnaris or any other disease that has re-occurred You could try the experimental addition of Oregon Grape Root capsules into the aquarium along with the current treatment. Maracyn Plus, while not as strong as the Kanamycin/Nitrofuazone combination, still might be worth trying. Salt is also therapy used in a University study (but it can be very hard on many fish when used at therapeutic doses). Try and follow all the preventative suggestions contained in the columnaris article too Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.htmlCarl |
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Post by bgcat249 on Jun 14, 2017 9:26:11 GMT -5
Thanks Carl. I had read about the Oregon root capsules on AAP and found it fascinating...Wonder when mainstream medicine will incorporate it into treatment plans with all the ab resistance out there. Can,t afford it right now but will consider for future use. The platy with the lesion is alive and eating. Did use the jungle Start Right since it had the aloevera for lesions. Two of the flame tetras are have trouble swimming so not sure if they will make it, although they are eating and have good color.
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