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Post by labrune on Mar 20, 2017 11:12:25 GMT -5
Hello, I need some input/advice on what is going on with my betta. So water parameters first Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate around 5ppm PH 8.2 KH 11 GH 13 5 gallon planted aquarium Water lettuce Jungle Val Anubias nana Java moss Naja grass I do ferts and root tabs Filtratration 2 Azoo Mignon filters Airstone (with sponge around it to prevent betta from rubbing) Heater (temp I try to keep between 75-79) Water changes--weekly 50% I have had this female betta since September 2016. She is in her own tank. Around the 2nd week of Jan (2017) I noticed this small white spot appear on her body right behind her pectoral fin. So I watched it and watched it but noticed it was getting bigger. So i started to do a Qtip dab of methylene blue on the spot 2x daily. The dab has been going on for almost 2 months now which i have seen no real significant improvement. She eats and acts normal. I am attaching a picture. Now the picture does look like there is a protrusion or bulge due to the angle the picture was taken but if you look down into the water on top of her there is no bulge. I thought maybe a cyst but there is no bulge. Thought maybe fungus, but to me it doesn't look fluffy. I am sort of at a loss. I do not ever see her scratching or rubbing on anything. Just super clueless. What would be your thoughts/recommendations? I have spent hours reading your articles. Amazing, amazing, amazing! I will definitely be giving you a donation!!! I am leaning towards doing a salt bath with methylene blue BUT I am concerned since I have been using the MB so long that it will be ineffective. I guess the reason i never stopped doing the dab was because I felt the dab was preventing it from getting worse. whatever IT is! Never done a salt bath so a little nervous about that. Thanks for any help/advice/input! Leigh Ann Attachments:
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Post by Carl on Mar 20, 2017 13:05:49 GMT -5
Welcome to Everything Aquatic!! Question, however have you used Methylene Blue, as a direct application or in a bath MB is quite safe for a direct application (swab) and will also provide some information by noting if it readily stains the fish or not. If it does stain, you are much more likely to have an active infection going on As for salt baths, these are not dangerous if not over done (I use both sodium chloride and epsom salts) Reference: www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2009/07/fish-baths.htmlThis appears to be an infection, but knowing if this stains is important and I will not recommend anything more (treatment wise) other than ask the parameters of the water you use for water changes? Carl
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Post by labrune on Mar 20, 2017 13:35:24 GMT -5
Hello Carl, Thank you for your reply. Yes, the MB does stain. When I do a water change, I use from the tap. I live in a rural area with our own well and water is not treated. My water straight from the tap is PH 8.0-8.2 KH 16 GH 18 I add stress coat to the water and let sit over 24 hours before doing a water change. I do have a large piece of driftwood in the tank so that is probably the explanation of the difference of the KH/GH difference between tap & the tank? not sure thank you so much! PS. I LOVE your website!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The best information out there!
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Mar 20, 2017 15:06:42 GMT -5
Wondering if it's advanced Columnaris. Can't say for sure, but wonder if the hard water has something to do with it. I wonder if you measured it often before and after water changes what it would like like. Maybe long term, try to smaller water changes like 20% only when Nitrates get 20-40ppm. Minimize any drifting/swinging that may be happening. Columnaris is stressed induced and I wonder if the stress is coming from the harder water. www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.htmlWelcome btw!!!!
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Post by labrune on Mar 20, 2017 15:09:11 GMT -5
Oh, I hate to hear "advanced Columnaris" I have read your article on Columnaris. Was hoping this is not what it was!!!!
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Post by Carl on Mar 21, 2017 9:35:52 GMT -5
Generally the affect is on pH and KH, not GH. Sometime driftwood can harbor pathogens too, so sometimes removing it and soaking in a brine solution is a good idea. As per pH, while I am not one to chase pH, it is higher than I am comfortable with for a Betta and I am somewhat surprised that the pH is not a bit lower after a few days of exposure to the driftwood. You might consider using SeaChem Acid buffer to each water change (in very small amounts). Also using Pillow Moss or Bettta Spa in your aquarium might be suggested. Resources: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Seachem.html#acidwww.americanaquariumproducts.com/FrogMoss.htmlwww.americanaquariumproducts.com/BettaSpa.htmlA bath containing MB, Furan 2, & Kanaplex as well as in tank treatment with Furan 2 & Kanaplex might be in order Carl
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Post by labrune on Mar 21, 2017 10:02:44 GMT -5
Hello Carl,
the driftwood has been in the tank for over 6 months. before i put it in the tank, i did boil it about 8 times. Would this not have killed any pathogens?
I will check out the Seachem Acid buffer, pillow moss and betta spa. What is your thoughts on adding almond leaves?
Concerning adding furan 2 & kanaplex to the main tank, how will this affect my plants? jungle val, water lettuce, java moss, naja grass & anubias nana
As always, I am indebted to both yours and devon's advice! deep gratitude
I did start the bath advice (salt & MB) last night and did it again this morning and plan to do this evening. I will work up to adding the furan 2 & kanaplex to the bath....... still timid.
Thank you again!
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Post by Carl on Mar 21, 2017 14:31:05 GMT -5
Hello Carl, the driftwood has been in the tank for over 6 months. before i put it in the tank, i did boil it about 8 times. Would this not have killed any pathogens? Likley, but new pathogens can also find a home (but you would likely see them such as Saprolegnia) Almond Leaves are good (also part of Betta Spa). Not as strong as Pillow Moss, but maybe you do not need as a strong a natural acid buffer either Furan 2 is definitely hard on plants, however the baths may not be enough to defeat this either and Kanaplex by itself is much less effective Carl
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Mar 22, 2017 12:15:03 GMT -5
Carl is giving some great treatment advice. It's hard to say for sure, but making an educated guess. If it's not fuzzy, but white, that's usually Columnaris, but maybe a cyst that's just progress and looks strange. I'm not 100%
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Post by labrune on Mar 22, 2017 12:34:05 GMT -5
Hello Carl & Devon,
Yes! You both have given me such wonderful advice. I am so deeply grateful for both of your help. I know it is hard to diagnosis sometimes.
As of right now, I have given her 4 salt baths w/MB. To me, the spot looks a little better but it could just be my imagination HOPING it is getting better. I have not yet dove into adding furan 2 and kanaplex yet. I'm very afraid to not properly measure/dose the medications for a 1 quart bath. I am doubtful on my math. Is there a dosage calculator somewhere I could use?
I need to form a plan of action how best to treat the entire tank. Since it is a planted tank and has a piece of driftwood, just wanting to plan properly on how to do all this. I do have a 2.5 gallon tank that i had planned to use as a hospital tank. I do not want to lose the plants. So I am trying to figure out how to juggle this all and in the proper steps.
Again, I am so very appreciative of all the advice I have received. I very much trust all the information you have shared with me.
Thank you!!!
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Post by Carl on Mar 23, 2017 8:43:24 GMT -5
As of right now, I have given her 4 salt baths w/MB. To me, the spot looks a little better but it could just be my imagination HOPING it is getting better. I have not yet dove into adding furan 2 and kanaplex yet. I'm very afraid to not properly measure/dose the medications for a 1 quart bath. I am doubtful on my math. Is there a dosage calculator somewhere I could use? This is the difficult part of a bath, but it does not need to be exact due to the short time the fish are in a bath. Here are some conversions from our Fish Baths/Swabs article: www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2009/07/fish-baths.html#conversionsIf you could use this 2.5 gallon tank, this might be easier than the fish baths. A bare bottom hospital tank with a sponge filter is more effective for treatments such as this and can replace a bath too You're welcome! Carl
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Post by labrune on Apr 12, 2017 15:03:07 GMT -5
Hello Carl/Devon,
I do apologize for the long delay in response. I am an accountant/bookkeeper and deadline is weighing down heavily on me right now.
With that said, I am happy to say my female betta is still alive. I gave her 14 bath treatments with salt, MB, furan 2 & kanaplex. I have noticed a huge difference in her spot on her side; however, it is not completely gone. Should I continue treatment or stop and wait awhile? I am starting to think this is not columnaris but some type of fungus because today I noticed where there is still some visible spot on her but it looks like a white strand.
I will try to get a new picture. Right now, every time I try to take a pic she flares her gills at me and then darts off to the back of the aquarium. She has got an attitude today!
Thank you!
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Post by labrune on Apr 12, 2017 15:45:31 GMT -5
Ok this is the best pic i can get right now (which i am not happy about because the picture is deceiving from what I actually see) without her flaring at me but I noticed now the white strand is gone. Geez Attachments:
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Apr 12, 2017 16:15:50 GMT -5
that's a pretty decent long treatment. I would think taking a break would be a good idea, then consider another round after say a week or two. Carl may have better advice.
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Apr 12, 2017 16:17:27 GMT -5
Does look like there's fuzz in the gill?
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Post by labrune on Apr 12, 2017 18:29:42 GMT -5
Hi Devon,
No I cannot tell nor see any noticeable fuzz in the gill. I have even turned off the light and used a flash light and still cannot see any fuzz. If there is any fuzz there it is not noticeable to me.
Its very apparent though the spot has gotten noticeably better from my original pic.
thank you again!
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Post by Carl on Apr 13, 2017 8:52:08 GMT -5
Definitely give the meds a break.
Consider a new med should the need to re-start. You can still provide the Methlene Blue swab or direct drops.
Also consider a Medicated Wonder shell in his tank
Carl
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Post by labrune on Apr 13, 2017 9:09:34 GMT -5
Thank you Carl! I do have some medicated wonder shells on hand :-)
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Apr 13, 2017 11:30:20 GMT -5
Hi Devon, No I cannot tell nor see any noticeable fuzz in the gill. I have even turned off the light and used a flash light and still cannot see any fuzz. If there is any fuzz there it is not noticeable to me. Its very apparent though the spot has gotten noticeably better from my original pic. thank you again! Opps. It's the fin pectoral fin I'm seeing... zoom in Devon
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Post by labrune on Apr 13, 2017 12:11:30 GMT -5
Ha! Yea, I'm sorry about the terrible pic. I will try to get a better picture.
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