Loki's Spec V

[gonzoid]

Loki is a betta my wife inherited from a co-worker early last year. She was following the care instructions given by the former owner. This amounted to no water changes, no filtration and topping the 2.5 gallon tank off as needed with dechlorinated water. While trying to save the goldfish (see my intro thread for more), Loki had been neglected further. I knew that our betta care just flatly could not be right. Loki was very muted and grey. The little gravel substrate in his tank was doing what it could for biofiltration thankfully. No ammonia, no nitrite when tested with the API master test kit. Nitrates were off the chart. Over the next week, I got the nitrates under control through twice daily 25% water changes. Loki's color began to return.  

This is Loki


He currently lives here


It's a simple 2.5g tank.  After finding AAP and discovering how poorly we were actually taking care of him, he got a sponge filter and I set about getting him a better home.

This is Loki's new home.  

It's a Fluval Spec V with a few modifications mostly to cut down on current and help get even heating.  The fake decoration will be removed.  It was put in with some substrate from his existing tank to speed the cycling.

I'm getting ready to transfer Loki over in the next few days.  I have some questions I'm hoping get answered to ensure he's happy & healthy in his new place.

I was planning on moving him last week but suddenly had some free snails.  I'm sure they came with the plants.  I failed to dip/rinse them prior to setting up the tank.  Lesson learned.  I'm down to no visible snails remaining after setting a bottle trap for them and plucking them out.  The plants were from a plant only tank setup at our local fish/pond supply store (AquaSerene in Eugene).

I am concerned they may have introduced undesirable organisms as well.  Is this a reasonable concern?  If so, what should I do before moving Loki?

The 2nd post will be kept updated to reflect the tank setup.

I will keep the 3rd post as my water parameter journal.  

Please feel free to throw any and all advice my way regarding any aspect of this adventure.  I am very aware of the depth of my lack of knowledge and don't want to screw things up if I can avoid it.

[gonzoid]

Current tank setup:

Spec V using supplied sponge filter and BioMax.  I am not using the charcoal.  BioMax is in the top filter compartment.  A dozen BioHome Ultimate pellets in a mesh bag are in the lower filter compartment.

There is a small mat of Frog Moss sitting on top of the filter compartment.  There is an Indian Almond leaf in the tank with a piece of spider wood.  These have been used in an attempt (possibly futile) to slightly lower the ph in a gentle fashion. 

I've put 5 holes in the pump's outflow tube in a spiral pattern to lower the flow. This also allows the heater which is in the same compartment to get some flow around it instead of sitting in still water. There is a Fluval Edge pre-filter covering the outflow to further diffuse the flow.

I have a few live plants which didn't require "planting" (or so I'm told) to provide a place to hide in addition to his little cave.  There are currently (I'll probably get this wrong) 2 Java Fern, 1 Java Lace and a moss ball.  I didn't want to deal with a planted substrate setup this early in my limited knowledge.  I may add or modify later.

[gonzoid]

I'll use this area as my water parameter journal,  I'm hoping this will be easier than random scraps of paper.  It will also let me (and more importantly others) spot trends that may need attention.  Currently using API Master Kit with GH and KH additions.  

Both tanks have small pieces of Wonder Shells in them.  Roughly 1/8 a small in the current tank and 1/4 a small in the Spec.  Both have Indian Almond leaf and some Frog Moss as well.  I've attempted to keep everything proportionate to tank size.  No other additions to alter chemistry are used.

Baseline for my tap water after sitting covered for 72 hours:
ph    7.8
GH    4°=71.6ppm
KH    3°=53.7ppm

2/20/17 current tank
Temp  76.8  °F
NH₃     0
NO^-₂    0
NO^-₃    10-20
ph    7.8
GH    13° = 232.7ppm
KH    4° =71.6ppm  

2/20/17 Spec V
Temp  77.9 °F
NH₃    0
NO^-₂   0
NO^-₃   5
ph     7.8
GH    10°=179ppm
KH    3°=53.7ppm

If I've let the Aquarium Chemistry article from AAP sink in properly, I come away with:
The ph is equal across the tap and both tanks.  This indicates stable ph levels to me.  I will not be chasing it in an attempt to drop it to a more "ideal" betta environment. 
GH is OK and higher than the tap due to the use of Wonder Shells.
KH is similar and should be OK.


3/4/17 Current  
Temp 77.8 °F
NH₃   0
NO^-₂  0
NO^-₃  10
ph    7.6 or 7.8  I hate the overlapping ranges on the master kit high/low setup
GH    11°=196.9ppm  (down from 13°=232.7ppm)
KH    4°=71.6ppm

3/4/17 Spec V
Temp 78.6 °F
NH₃  0
NO^-₂ 0
NO^-₃ 0
ph    7.6 or 7.8 I hate the overlapping ranges on the master kit high/low setup
GH    7°=125.3ppm  (down from 10°=179ppm)
KH    3°=53.7ppm


3/8/17 Spec V  Moving Day
Temp 79 °F 
NH₃  0
NO^-₂ 0
NO^-₃ 0-5ppm. Something is really liking what little nitrate are being produced.  Should change with something more substantial than a few snails for bio-load.  Will keep an eye on this.
ph    7.8
GH    7°=125.3ppm  
KH    3°=53.7ppm

3/10/17 @ 0900
Temp 78 °F 
NH₃  0
NO^-₂ 0
NO^-₃ 5ppm. 
ph    7.8
GH    7°=125.3ppm  
KH    3°=53.7ppm

3/12/17 @ 1630
Temp 80.5 °F 
NH₃  0
NO^-₂ 0
NO^-₃ 5ppm. 
ph    7.8
GH    8°=143.2ppm  (up from 125.3ppm)
KH    3°=53.7ppm

3/14/17 @ 1100
Temp 79.5 °F 
NH₃  0
NO^-₂ 0
NO^-₃ 5ppm -ish...barely discernable difference from 0.
ph    7.8
GH    10°=179ppm  (up from 143.2ppm)
KH    3°=53.7ppm

3/17/17 @ 1930
Temp 79.8 °F 
NH₃  0
NO^-₂ 0
NO^-₃ 0
ph    7.8
GH    12°=214.8ppm  (up from 179ppm)
KH    3°=53.7ppm


3/19/17 @ 1615
Temp 79.9 °F 
NH₃  0
NO^-₂ 0
NO^-₃ 0
ph    7.8
GH    12°=214.8 ppm  
KH    3°=53.7 ppm

4/2/17 @ 1710
Temp 80.4 °F 
NH₃  0
NO^-₂ 0
NO^-₃ 0
ph    7.8
GH    15°=268.5ppm (up from 214.8ppm)  
KH    3°=53.7ppm

4/10/17 @ 1128
Temp 79.6 °F 
NH₃  0
NO^-₂ 0
NO^-₃ 0
ph    7.8
GH    17°=304.3ppm (up from 268.5ppm)  
KH    3°=53.7ppm

4/17/17 @ 1128
Temp 80.4 °F 
NH₃  0
NO^-₂ 0
NO^-₃ 0
ph    7.8
GH    21°=375.9ppm (up from 304.3ppm)  
KH    3°=53.7ppm
20ish% PWC to bring GH down after this test

5/3/17 @ 1801
Temp 82.6 °F 
NH₃  0
NO^-₂ 0
NO^-₃ 0
ph    8.2
GH    19°=340.1ppm (down from 375.9ppm)  
KH    3°=53.7ppm
25ish % PWC to bring down GH after this test.  Not sure what moved ph but was back to typical 7.8 after PWC.  Algae in full swing.  Cleaned sponge/BioHome/BioMax in Spec chamber, replaced Frog Moss & almond leaf.  Did NOT clean HydroSponge.  Apparently need yet smaller WS pieces. Turned pump all the way down and removed sponge from outflow.  Hoping the movement at surface slows algae some.

5/11/17 @ 1320
Temp 79.8 °F 
NH₃  0
NO^-₂ 0
NO^-₃ 0
ph    7.8
GH    16°=286.4ppm (down from 340.1ppm)  
KH    2°=35.8ppm   May have backed off too much on the WS fragment size.
25ish % PWC to provide GH headroom as KH needs to get back to where it was.  Cleaned up some of the dead/dying leaves.  Moved Indian almond leaf to other end of tank.  HydroSponge mini place next to HS#1 and connected to new air pump.  Will move HS#1 to 40G to help seed in a couple weeks.

5/16/17 @ 1345
Temp 79.0 °F 
NH₃  0
NO^-₂ 0
NO^-₃ 0
ph    7.8
GH    14°=250.6ppm (down from 286.4ppm)  
KH    2°=35.8ppm  not sure why this hasn't bumped back up.
Will 20% PWC & use slightly larger WS fragment to try & get KH back up to 3° while leaving GH headroom.


5/25/17 @ 1715
Temp 81.3 °F 
NH₃  0
NO^-₂ 0
NO^-₃ 0
ph    7.8
GH    15°=268.5ppm (up from 250.6ppm)  
KH    3°=53.7ppm
May have found sweet spot for fragment size. KH back to usual levels. Weekly 20ish% PWC seems to keep KH under my "limit". Algae still going.

6/3/17 @ 1820
Temp 80.1 °F 
NH₃  0
NO^-₂ 0
NO^-₃ 0
ph    7.8
GH    15°=268.5ppm  
KH    3°=53.7ppm

6/12/17 @ 1625
Temp 80.5 °F 
NH₃  0
NO^-₂ 0
NO^-₃ 0
ph    8.0
GH    16°=286.4ppm (up from 268.5ppm)  
KH    3°=53.7ppm
20-25% PWC every 10 days or so has been keeping KH below 300 with the current fragment size of WS. Need to start cycling light on timer during day as algae continues despite use of Enhance. Replaced Indian almond leaf. Filters untouched.  Odd ph bump.

7/1/17 @ 1125
Temp 79.8 °F 
NH₃  0
NO^-₂ 0
NO^-₃ 0
ph    8.0
GH    17°=304.3ppm (up from 286.4ppm)  
KH    3°=53.7ppm
Unplanned overtime & 6 day work weeks make for slightly neglected tank. Parameters mostly good, but too long w/o PWC let GH get above self-imposed limit. Cleared out some dead plants, removed some algae. Now that HS mini has had several weeks to seed, removed HS #1 to give back some tank space.

7/10/17 @ 1750
Temp 80.4 °F 
NH₃  0
NO^-₂ 0
NO^-₃ 0
ph    7.6
GH    15°=268.5ppm (down from 304.3ppm)  
KH    3°=53.7ppm

7/22/17 @ 1735
Temp 81.2 °F 
NH₃  0
NO^-₂ 0
NO^-₃ 0
ph    7.6
GH    13°=232.7ppm (down from 268.5ppm)  
KH    3°=53.7ppm
Removed algae. Replace almond leaf. Moved stuff around to vary Loki's environment.

8/4/17 @ 0945
Temp 73.2 °F 
NH₃  /;0
NO^-₂ 0
NO^-₃ 0
ph    7.8
GH    12°=214.8ppm (down from 232.7ppm)  
KH    3°=53.7ppm
Vac gravel during PWC.  Mulm...adding to algae issue? Overfeeding additional possibility. Left heater unplugged unintentionally overnight. High heat in area was letting tank overshoot heater setting of 80 up to 84ish. Have been unplugging when it hits 80ish after work & plugging back in.


8/18/17 @ 1210
Temp 78.6 °F 
NH₃  0
NO^-₂ 0
NO^-₃ 0
ph    7.8
GH    10°=179ppm (down from 214.8ppm)  
KH    2°=35.8ppm (down from 53.7pp)


9/7/17 @ 2012
Temp 79.4 °F 
NH₃  0
NO^-₂ 0
NO^-₃ 0
ph    7.8
GH    14°=250.6ppm (up from 179ppm)  
KH    3°=53.7ppm (up from 35.8pp)

9/24/17 @ 1945
Temp 78.8 °F 
NH₃  0
NO^-₂ 0
NO^-₃ 0
ph    7.8
GH    20°=358ppm (up from 250.6ppm)  
KH    3°=53.7ppm


10/11/17 @ 1245
Temp 77.6 °F 
NH₃  0
NO^-₂ 0
NO^-₃ 0
ph    7.8
GH    17°=204.3ppm (down from 358ppm)  
KH    3°=53.7ppm

11/01/17 @ 1825
Temp 75.8 °F 
NH₃  0
NO^-₂ 0
NO^-₃ 0
ph    7.8
GH    9°=161ppm  
KH    3°=53.7ppm

[Carl]

Looking good!

Nice layout to your blog too, easy to follow!

I think the Fluval Spec V should do a great job once the bio filter is all broken in
I would suggest moving your current Hydro Sponge Filter over to this tank too. This will provide filter redundancy and also help further seed the need filter.

While I certainly do not advocate chasing pH as per my Chemistry article (thanks for reading), adding some pillow moss (frog moss) to your Fluval filter chamber would help naturally buffer the pH, and you still would not be chasing the pH assuming you pre-soak any new water used in water changes first before adding. This would allow the pH to simply drop a bit naturally and you simply accept the number you get and try not to alter it suddenly with water changes

Carl

[devonjohnsgard]

Looks like improved conditions to me. Snails are no concern really. A normal part of aquariums. If that size time, you could just pick them out or let them me. They'll do no harm. If they do explode, that would tell you the tank is really our of balance.

[childofiam]

Feb 28, 2017 15:05:28 GMT -5 gonzoid said:

I'll use this area as my water parameter journal,  I'm hoping this will be easier than random scraps of paper.  It will also let me (and more importantly others) spot trends that may need attention.  Currently using API Master Kit with GH and KH additions.  

Both tanks have small pieces of Wonder Shells in them.  Roughly 1/8 a small in the current tank and 1/4 a small in the Spec.  Both have Indian Almond leaf and some Frog Moss as well.  I've attempted to keep everything proportionate to tank size.  No other additions to alter chemistry are used.

Baseline for my tap water after sitting covered for 72 hours:
ph  7.8
GH  4°
KH  3°

2/20/17 current tank
Temp  76.8  °F
Ammonia  0
Nitrite       0
Nitrate      10/20
ph            7.8
GH           13°
KH            4°    

2/20/17 Spec V
Temp  77.9 °F
Ammonia  0
Nitrite      0
Nitrate      5
ph           7.8
GH          10°
KH           3°

If I've let the Aquarium Chemistry article from AAP sink in properly, I come away with:
The ph is equal across the tap and both tanks.  This indicates stable ph levels to me.  I will not be chasing it in an attempt to drop it to a more "ideal" betta environment. 
GH is OK and higher than the tap due to the use of Wonder Shells.
KH is similar and should be OK.

Question. Is your tap coming from a water softener? I noticed your high pH and low GH

Richard

[devonjohnsgard]

Parameters look good to me... GH is actually kinda high. KH is good.

[childofiam]

Mar 1, 2017 18:00:31 GMT -5 devonjohnsgard said:

Parameters look good to me... GH is actually kinda high. KH is good.

I was seeing 10 as 10 ppm my bad. 10 =179 ppm

Richard

[gonzoid]

So I haven't "fed" the bio-filter in the Spec for several days. I'm reading 0 for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate this morning. I'm hoping I don't have to restart the cycle. I added 5 drops ammonia to bring up to 2ppm and added some Stability in anticipation of getting Loki moved this week. I'm hoping that since there's just a few remaining snails and nothing else feeding the bio-filter that the lack of nitrates is due to being used by the plants. Will test tomorrow to see what's up. I also noted the GH & KH dropped a bit. I'm assuming this is due to variability in the size of Wonder Shell piece I put in.

I remembered reading on AAP that the Master Kit is "never recommended". I absolutely despise the overlapping high/low ph ranges for water on the edge of both. I read 7.6 on the low, which is as high as it will go. Then the 7.4 and 7.8 colors on the high test are difficult to distinguish between. I bought mine based on the "wisdom of the interwebs". Are the 5 in 1 test strips easier to read in this regard? Seriously contemplating putting the master, GH & KH liquids aside and using the 5 in 1's for routine checks.

Is there anything I should do when I actually transfer Loki over as far as minimizing stress from the netting & move? I've pretty much got everything on hand from the Medications/ Treatments that SHOULD be kept on hand BEFORE you need them section of the aquarium disease article on AAP. Or should I K.I.S.S. & stop overanalying?

[gonzoid]

Feb 28, 2017 17:32:38 GMT -5 Carl said:

While I certainly do not advocate chasing pH as per my Chemistry article (thanks for reading), adding some pillow moss (frog moss) to your Fluval filter chamber would help naturally buffer the pH, and you still would not be chasing the pH assuming you pre-soak any new water used in water changes first before adding. This would allow the pH to simply drop a bit naturally and you simply accept the number you get and try not to alter it suddenly with water changes

Carl

I've got as large a mat as I can fit sitting atop the filter assembly.  There's also a 4x7ish inch Indian Almond leaf in the main tank area though it's 3+ weeks old at this point.  ph doesn't seem to have moved at all based on this morning's test.  Then again, I hate the API ph tests from the master kit.

[devonjohnsgard]

It seems like you don't have a cycle. You may be right about the plants, but it usually takes a tank full of plants to use all Nitrate.

liquids are better for dialing in the aquarium, then the strips are better for just following trends, but most likely you would get a different reading from the strips as well. Best is just to use one and stick to it and not worry about multiple test. They will always be different. For the hobby, we're not looking for excite science, just trends. In this case, you would just want to see a trend of a stable pH.

Stressguard would help with the transfer. Methylene Blue could, but I would prefer stressguard. There's other slim coat/stress reducers as well.

[childofiam]

I highly recommend a good pH meter like the Hanna meters for reading your pH. I have tried many brands but the best is the Hanna meter. I have the ORP/pH meter but have used the Hanna pH meter, they are the same meter.
You can find it here, www.americanaquariumproducts.com/HannaTesters.html
Hanna pH meter is the only meter that will correctly read pH in low KH water. Hanna uses 2 point calibration, 7.01 and 4.01 for low KH environment and 7.01/8.01 for high KH environments. Other pH meters only use 7.0 solutions for mid range calibration. Their sensors are low grade compared to Hanna's.

Richard

[Carl]

Mar 4, 2017 14:55:06 GMT -5 gonzoid said:

I've got as large a mat as I can fit sitting atop the filter assembly.  There's also a 4x7ish inch Indian Almond leaf in the main tank area though it's 3+ weeks old at this point.  ph doesn't seem to have moved at all based on this morning's test.  Then again, I hate the API ph tests from the master kit.

Pillow moss is a stronger pH/acid buffer

From the Pillow Moss Webpage:
"In experiments with a 15 gallon aquarium utilizing two Frog Moss pieces; the Frog Moss reduced KH from 60 ppm to 10-20 ppm in one week"

www.americanaquariumproducts.com/FrogMoss.html

Carl

[gonzoid]

Mar 4, 2017 15:10:09 GMT -5 devonjohnsgard said:

It seems like you don't have a cycle. You may be right about the plants, but it usually takes a tank full of plants to use all Nitrate.

Tested just ammonia, nitrite & nitrate tonight in the Spec.  This is about 30 hours after dosing to 2 ppm ammonia.  I've got 0 ammonia/nitrite and 5ppm nitrate.  It appears cycle is possibly still ok.  Dosed to 2 ppm again & will see if I have another 0 reading on ammonia/nitrite with a bump in nitrates Tuesday morning.  I'm planning on moving the sponge filter that's in the current tank (been there 5 weeks or so) over to the Spec when I move Loki to have some filter redundancy.  Thinking I'll be ok to transfer if I'm getting nitrates in the Spec & moving the sponge over for backup.

[Carl]

Mar 5, 2017 22:16:20 GMT -5 gonzoid said:

Tested just ammonia, nitrite & nitrate tonight in the Spec.  This is about 30 hours after dosing to 2 ppm ammonia.  I've got 0 ammonia/nitrite and 5ppm nitrate.  It appears cycle is possibly still ok.  Dosed to 2 ppm again & will see if I have another 0 reading on ammonia/nitrite with a bump in nitrates Tuesday morning.  I'm planning on moving the sponge filter that's in the current tank (been there 5 weeks or so) over to the Spec when I move Loki to have some filter redundancy.  Thinking I'll be ok to transfer if I'm getting nitrates in the Spec & moving the sponge over for backup.

Seems good to me unless I am missing something.

Can you refresh my memory as to how to seeded and cycled this aquarium , such as using aged/season filter media?

Carl

[gonzoid]

Mar 6, 2017 13:51:05 GMT -5 Carl said:

Mar 5, 2017 22:16:20 GMT -5 gonzoid said:

Tested just ammonia, nitrite & nitrate tonight in the Spec.  This is about 30 hours after dosing to 2 ppm ammonia.  I've got 0 ammonia/nitrite and 5ppm nitrate.  It appears cycle is possibly still ok.  Dosed to 2 ppm again & will see if I have another 0 reading on ammonia/nitrite with a bump in nitrates Tuesday morning.  I'm planning on moving the sponge filter that's in the current tank (been there 5 weeks or so) over to the Spec when I move Loki to have some filter redundancy.  Thinking I'll be ok to transfer if I'm getting nitrates in the Spec & moving the sponge over for backup.

Seems good to me unless I am missing something.

Can you refresh my memory as to how to seeded and cycled this aquarium , such as using aged/season filter media?

Carl

Cycle in the Spec was started with a small mesh bag of substrate and a decoration or 2 from his current tank, rinsed in tank water removed during a water change.  I fed the cycle with Dr. Tim's ammonia to 2 ppm a couple times a week once I noticed the ammonia beginning to convert.  Stability was used in the 1st week to try to help jump start things.

[gonzoid]

While going through my daily snail hunt, I noticed that the roots of this daughter plant had some long & white-ish filaments growing/attached to them.  Also have some of what looks like the same filaments on some of the spiderwood as well.  Also have some tannish muck adhered to the inside of the glass in several spots.  Can't really get a pic of the "muck", but here's the filament stuff...



Anything to concern myself about this close to his move?

[devonjohnsgard]

just looks like some algae. I would see if it could be brushed off with my fingers. Consider SeaChem Excel. Not a huge deal.

[gonzoid]

So I couldn't wait until tomorrow to check on the cycle. It's been a little over 24 hours since I dosed to 2ppm ammonia. I just read 0 ammonia/nitrite and 5-10ppm nitrate. As the cycle seems to be ok, I'll do a full set of tests for logging tomorrow after my running around is done. If things look close to what they have been, I plan on doing a little bit of tank rearranging to make room for the sponge filter and get Loki transferred to his new digs.

Then I'll leave it the hell alone and just monitor water parameters while everything gets settled in. I've been having lines from the Too Much Care section bouncing in my head. Trying hard not to muck around in the tank more than necessary in the name of getting things "perfect".

I'l shoot for:
Nitrates 15-50ppm
GH at 100-300ppm
KH at 50-150ppm.  
Water changes based on Best would be a 50% water change or even less and the frequency would be as infrequently as possible so as to maintain a reasonably low nitrate level (under 40-50 ppm) & stable KH. With the filtration methods noted earlier in this article, along with water parameter maintenance methods also already mentioned, this should not be difficult at all and not require water changes any more than once per week or even less frequent. from the Betta page on AAP.  
Replace fragment of Wonder Shell as needed.  Will need to determine what that means more precisely in this tank.  
Will read and re-read the Water Chemistry article until it starts to fully sink in.

Does my plan look like a go (finally) for launch?

EDIT for 2 more questions I'm thinking to ask before crashing out for the night:
1)  Salt - yes or no & if yes, how much?  Not using any now, but should I?
2)  I realized I could fit the Indian Almond leaf in the filter section vertically between the filter assembly & glass/divider.  Is this workable vs a giant leaf in the tank section?

Thanks for putting up with the mini-barrage of questions every few days.  Hopefully they'll decrease as I get more confident in my understanding.  Then I can move on to different questions when I get LT's place restarted.

[devonjohnsgard]

Cycle looks good! So glad.

Wouldn't think salt is needed. Now just stable parameters and the electrolyte salts. Sounds like a good place to put the leaf to me.