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Post by childofiam on Jan 31, 2017 7:34:20 GMT -5
One of my baby Discus has swollen gills and is rubbing it's face against the glass.
I am doing 40% H2O changes daily
KH 50
GH 107
Ammonia 0
NO2 0
NO3 5
Temp 84 deg
I dosed the tank with MB last night and am also in the process of worming with Prazipro.
Is this gill flukes or something else?
Richard
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Post by Carl on Jan 31, 2017 12:55:26 GMT -5
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Post by childofiam on Jan 31, 2017 13:45:34 GMT -5
 This is about the best pic I can get. The first thing I did was go to your info articles and read. I thought the same thing, gill flukes. This came up all of a sudden. two days ago everyone was fine and now others are starting to scratch themselves the same way. Richard |
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Post by bettarescue on Jan 31, 2017 21:11:28 GMT -5
Ohhh, sweet baby fishs gills! That looks uncomfortable! Good bet with the MB, I do agree with Carl as I personally have had best results with 30/40 minute baths as upposed to intank-plus to play it safe with younger BB colonies, or weaker cycles (I'm betting yours is pretty mature though?) I have a few questions, hope you don't mind  Can you hash out that patch a bit for me? What texture is that patch behind the gills, any chance it's mechanical damage or does it look more like deterioration? You mentioned the rubbing on the glass, how is the respiration looking- breathing heavily or any other signs of stress? Have you tried to shine a small pen light into the inflamed gills to look inside for any other signs/symptoms or possible visible parasites? Also, how long from taking delivery did the 1st fish show symptoms? Then how long until another shown, and is the rubbing and inflamed gills the only shared symptom? Thanks! |
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Post by childofiam on Feb 1, 2017 7:34:31 GMT -5
@ bettarescue - I am not able to see into the gills and it took 20 minutes to get the picture. They move around a lot and on top of that I have not got them trained with my presence so they take off on me. They all looked great when I received them with no signs of any problems. It took a week for the first signs to show up on the one and the others started to show signs a day later. The pictured one was showing labored breathing but today not so bad.
@ Carl - As I have learned from you, when fish come from different water sources combined with the stress of travel, fungus and or bacteria can attack the new fish, like if I went to Mexico and drank the water I would get sick because my body was not able to handle the things in the water, I learned this from your articles. I had already planed on treating for worms after they settled in and made it through the stressors.
Can you recommend a treatment program for new fish outlining from day one of arrival into quarantine, Do we treat for bacteria first and with what meds? and a good worming program with meds, internal and external.
Richard
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Feb 1, 2017 14:20:12 GMT -5
@ bettarescue - I am not able to see into the gills and it took 20 minutes to get the picture. They move around a lot and on top of that I have not got them trained with my presence so they take off on me. They all looked great when I received them with no signs of any problems. It took a week for the first signs to show up on the one and the others started to show signs a day later. The pictured one was showing labored breathing but today not so bad. @ Carl - As I have learned from you, when fish come from different water sources combined with the stress of travel, fungus and or bacteria can attack the new fish, like if I went to Mexico and drank the water I would get sick because my body was not able to handle the things in the water, I learned this from your articles. I had already planed on treating for worms after they settled in and made it through the stressors. Can you recommend a treatment program for new fish outlining from day one of arrival into quarantine, Do we treat for bacteria first and with what meds? and a good worming program with meds, internal and external. Richard Carl may be more specific, but here's this (guessing you've already seen it, but resharing just incase it helps) www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Disease.html#buy_fish |
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Post by Carl on Feb 1, 2017 18:19:51 GMT -5
Sorry I am late to this thread, crazy day and not enough of me to go around  Anyway, my suggestion in a quarantine tank if at all possible, I would use PraziPro along with the Medicated Wonder Shell (a healthy bio filter is key too as often persons who use hospital tanks do everything right but this and the ammonia levels nullify what is trying to be accomplished) Resource: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/TetraJungleHikari.html#praziproBack to the ongoing issue, this is rather quick for flukes; are all the infected fish from the same batch? The reason I ask is maybe this was already progressing before you got the fish and only showed signs later after getting into your tanks (in defense of where you purchased the discus, early stages are not readily visible). If this came on in days and affected fish that were not in this batch, this may be something else The best diagnosis comes from a dissection, but hopefully we will not get to that point Carl |
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Post by childofiam on Feb 2, 2017 7:14:17 GMT -5
All of the fish are from the same batch. 24 hours after adding MWS all of the rubbing stoped. I dosed the QT with Prazipro and will be doing a internal worming next. They all have settled down and are eating well and swimming around and playing.
Richard
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Post by childofiam on Feb 5, 2017 9:03:07 GMT -5
I am not so sure about this Discus anymore. They are growing fast and now I am starting to think this is a deformity of it's jaw. I will say it is a he because I dislike calling any living thing a "it". He is very active as all go the others are and all of the rubbing has stoped for several days now. It kinda looks like his gill plates are out-growing his head. He is also very aggressive towards the other Discus.
Any suggestions?
This is not a desirable feature so I may cull him.
Richard
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Post by bettarescue on Feb 5, 2017 16:41:42 GMT -5
If the fish does not seem to be uncomfortable then why not keep him/her out of your breeding pool and or move him tanks? At lease see about rehoming, I just hate to see a life wasted. |
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Post by childofiam on Feb 5, 2017 17:57:32 GMT -5
If the fish does not seem to be uncomfortable then why not keep him/her out of your breeding pool and or move him tanks? At lease see about rehoming, I just hate to see a life wasted. I know this is sad but it is our responsibility to keep deformities out of the strain. Nature does this by rejection and a fish by itself doesn't live long. Just like all of the inbreeding of Betta's causes health problems, as a Discus owner I need to keep the healthy ones and let the unhealthy ones go... But the decision has not been made to cull the fish yet, it could be a injury from shipping and handling too so I will wait to see what will happen. Richard Ps It would be great to see your setup. A tank blog is a great way to go back in time to see what you have learned, plus... we all get to see your beautiful tanks and fish... |
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Post by Carl on Feb 6, 2017 10:00:19 GMT -5
I am not so sure about this Discus anymore. They are growing fast and now I am starting to think this is a deformity of it's jaw. I will say it is a he because I dislike calling any living thing a "it". He is very active as all go the others are and all of the rubbing has stoped for several days now. It kinda looks like his gill plates are out-growing his head. He is also very aggressive towards the other Discus. Any suggestions? This is not a desirable feature so I may cull him. Richard You kinda answered my views as to how to keep the gene pool strong (a part of disease prevention from my experience). The part that is confusing is his aggression which often stronger fish will be more aggressive. However the flip side I have observed is that some fish are aggressive only for defensive reasons as they sense that they are not as strong/healthy. Carl |
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Post by childofiam on Feb 6, 2017 12:05:22 GMT -5
I am not so sure about this Discus anymore. They are growing fast and now I am starting to think this is a deformity of it's jaw. I will say it is a he because I dislike calling any living thing a "it". He is very active as all go the others are and all of the rubbing has stoped for several days now. It kinda looks like his gill plates are out-growing his head. He is also very aggressive towards the other Discus. Any suggestions? This is not a desirable feature so I may cull him. Richard You kinda answered my views as to how to keep the gene pool strong (a part of disease prevention from my experience). The part that is confusing is his aggression which often stronger fish will be more aggressive. However the flip side I have observed is that some fish are aggressive only for defensive reasons as they sense that they are not as strong/healthy. Carl This is a good point. |
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Post by childofiam on Feb 7, 2017 15:44:48 GMT -5
Well... Jr is growing and is one of the two biggest ones in the tank. I am seeing improvement in his jaw so maybe it is a injury and he will grow out of it... I hope so.
Richard
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Post by bettarescue on Feb 8, 2017 1:18:09 GMT -5
I am happy to hear this! I also would like to point out what I originally said about not culling the fish re: removing him from the tank and thus the breeding pool. What would it affect if he was moved tanks and not let Into breeding, or as I also mentioned rehoming him? If it was a genetic defect, he is not in pain or unable to function regularly, and the genes went no where then how would euthanizing the fish be beneficial? I understand you purchased these guys for breeding, but surely a man of your experience must have a hospital tank or alternate setup for emergencies? I do have a bleeding heart and how/why I keep fish reflects this, as every one has been a sick or troublesome fish someone was about to put down or dispose of in some way (wich in turn causes some heartache in the future when they pass). I understand you and I have different ideals and motivations for keeping fish, and I respect that but I HAD to fight for the little guy. I hope you understand |
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Feb 8, 2017 14:07:08 GMT -5
It's definitely an interesting topic you don't hear about too often... I can understand both side and leave it to personally preference. I'm in the same boat of always trying to save fish, but understand not breeding him.
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Post by childofiam on Feb 8, 2017 15:54:21 GMT -5
I decided to Keep him on behalf of bettarescue, eventually he will be moved to the main planted tank and if he is a he then this tank will become a male Discus tank.
Richard
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Post by bettarescue on Feb 8, 2017 16:36:47 GMT -5
Ohhhh, thank you thank you! You made my day Richard! I did the most ridiculous happy dance when I read this lol I started researching discus care a few days ago, If you would have decided to not keep him/her I was preparing to find a way to rehome the fish with me. Though admittedly my interest is peaked, what beautiful and fascinating fish discus are! I may end up being one of your first customers Making the right choice for your circumstances is always best in the end, but I am elated this guy fit into your plans! It means a lot to me that you even took my opinion into consideration, but I bet it's the little guy who's the happiest! I'll be smiling all day about this, you're all right in my book Richard  lol |
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Post by childofiam on Feb 11, 2017 19:06:18 GMT -5
I have decided to name this little one as he/she eats more than anyone and has grown to be the biggest one of the bunch.
His/her name will be Big Jaw
Richard
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Feb 13, 2017 16:30:05 GMT -5
The biggest bounce back, when hitting the button... There could be an agreement that hardship in life strengthens us (or in this case, strengthens the fish).
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lol