Overstocking??? The opinons vary so much...

[rogierfvv]

OK, through some mishaps, I ended up with a potential overstocking situation... except, I don't know for sure.
For a long time my Ammonia, Nitrates, Nitrates read zero all the time, due to lots of plants, few fish, and a decent filter to boot. This week I ended up accidentally getting more fish than I planned, and today's the 3rd day. and lo and behold my ammonia is at 0.35, nitrite 0, and nitrate 0... so I don't think I'm overstocked. But I'll be curious to see if nitrates will start to accumulate in a week. Purposely not doing a water change this week...
This is in my 29G, with now 8 Aeneas Cories, 7 pygmy cories, 12 neons, 7 lambchop rasboras, and 7 amano shrimp as well as a fair population of Malaysian Trumpet Snails.

It's a lively situation for sure, lots of movement, after I took about a half a year before I started to add fish at all, initially I had just snails and some amanos.

[devonjohnsgard]

Could have had a bump ya, but should level out. You have a sponge in the tank right?

[rogierfvv]

Well... we will see... to my mind one of the more intelligent conversations about overstocking is the one on Think Fish and their section on calculators and tools, here: www.thinkfish.co.uk/calculators/calculators

The logic is you need to have a holistic picture of your tank, and observe fish behavior as well, but all factors count in understanding the biological capacity of the tank, i.e. plants and filtration work together, and just as much as to a degree filters and plants compete for nutrients, they also augment each other.

I looked on while my tank was producing 0/0/0 readings for ammo/nitrite/nitrate for the longest time, having mostly plants, a few Amano shrimp, a lot of MTS, and hardly any fish - for several months I just had a betta, 8 Aeneas Cories and a single Pygmy Cory, and 3 Amanos. With that situation, I figured it was time to add some more fish. Due to some miscommunications, I suddenly ended up with more fish faster than I had planned.
so now I'm up to what I reported above (with minor corrections):

• 8 Aeneas Cories of adult size
  
• 6 Pygmy Cories
• 12 Neon Tetras
• 7 Lambchop Rasboras
  
• 8 Amano Shrimp
• A single FW clam
  
• Countless Malaysian Trumpet Snails (MTS)

I'll be watching this like a hawk. What happened was that I accidentally got a single Lambchop Rasbora with my school of neons, and lo and behold, he started 'herding' the neons like some sort of shepherd dog. Hence I added 6 more, and now the Rasboras mostly hang together, and leave the neons alone. So, I appear to have solved one problem, but as a result added more fish more quickly than I had wanted to, but the tank has been running for nearly a year, and yes, it has a decent size Canister (Hydor 150 Pro), with an ATI sponge pre-filter, which works marvellously. I clean the prefilter weekly, and the canister itself I service at three month intervals... and I use no chemical filtration, although I have some Purigen for a backup in case of an emergency.

[devonjohnsgard]

Ya, the freshwater article goes over this too, but I think you have a pretty good idea.

www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Basic_Aquarium_Principles.html#aquarium

[rogierfvv]

OK, this has been about two months now since I started worrying about possible overstocking, because I ended up by accident with seven lambchop rasboras in my 29G tank, over and above some other additions. The jury is still out. Behaviorally, the rasboras are PITAs, though fun to watch: they dominate the tank, and squeeze my neon tetras into a corner, so seven rasboras have 4/5ths of the tank and 9 neons have 1/5th of the tank. They seem shy by comparison. Also 3 of the 12 neons I bought died very quickly, possibly in part because of pressure from the rasboras, but otherwise things have been steady. There were no casualties among the rasboras, or anybody else I can tell. With the Amano shrimp I never know, for they are too good at hiding, I never know how many I have.

In any case, since this population explosion, my weekly readings have shown interesting changes.
TAN (Total Ammonia Nitrate - API) had been zero for a long time, as had nitrite (NO2) and nitrate (NO3) (all with API tests), and after the first addition my TAN went to 0.25 for a while, with the NO2/3 remaining at zero, but after the final addition, I saw a bit more change, though minimal.
Here are the last 4 weekly readings, since the population addition:
Date     TAN     NO2     NO3     pH     KH     ORP     rH
0827     0.35    0        0         6.75     65     120    24.49
0903     0.5      0        5         6.55     60     107    23.65
0910     0.25    0        2.5       6.49     65     98     23.28
0917     0.5      0        5         6.67     65     125    24.50

What seems curious to me is the minuscule spike in TAN, obviously not a major concern since pH has been kept below 6.8. During this period I did few water changes, only one for about 20%, but I did supplement some alkaline buffer a few times when pH was drifting below 6.8.

[Carl]

Sept 18, 2016 8:45:08 GMT -5 rogierfvv said:

What seems curious to me is the minuscule spike in TAN, obviously not a major concern since pH has been kept below 6.8. During this period I did few water changes, only one for about 20%, but I did supplement some alkaline buffer a few times when pH was drifting below 6.8.

This is not all that abnormal for ammonia to fluctuate (combined ammonium/ammonia- NH3/NH4 aka total ammonia nitrogen).
In fact, I cannot tell you how many times less experienced hobbyists or newbies have over reacted and caused more issues by panicking at ammonia readings of .25 to .5

Carl

[rogierfvv]

Once again, I am on the fence, thinking of expanding the filtration on my 29G tank, which has a 1" rockwall (which reduces the volume), but I have some fast swimmers like neons and lambchop tetras. The plants are doing great almost without fertilizer, I am stocking my local pet store with duckweed every 2 weeks, to feed their gold fish).

I am thinking of replacing my Hydor Pro 150 with 190 GPH flow rate with a  Sunsun 402b, which claims a 264 GPH flowrate, but in that case I want to hang on an FSB, and I expect still to end up with better circulation for my population that loves current... Note that there's also a UV light in the return line from the canister filter, so in this case, I would now be driving a UV light plus the FSB... I am concerned about a few things:

• The risk of being too high on the flow rate. I think this is minimal, for I now have a circulation pump running to add to the flow rate.
  
• The fact that filter and plants compete for nutrients
  
• Too what extent am I meaningfully increasing the biological capacity in my tank.
  

I'd like to add some more interesting inhabitants, in particular a small school of kuhli loaches, and a small posse of otocinclus...

No idea why the pic does not come in, but it works if you click the link...

[Carl]

Mar 30, 2017 17:34:18 GMT -5 rogierfvv said:

Once again, I am on the fence, thinking of expanding the filtration on my 29G tank, which has a 1" rockwall (which reduces the volume), but I have some fast swimmers like neons and lambchop tetras. The plants are doing great almost without fertilizer, I am stocking my local pet store with duckweed every 2 weeks, to feed their gold fish).

I am thinking of replacing my Hydor Pro 150 with 190 GPH flow rate with a  Sunsun 402b, which claims a 264 GPH flowrate, but in that case I want to hang on an FSB, and I expect still to end up with better circulation for my population that loves current... Note that there's also a UV light in the return line from the canister filter, so in this case, I would now be driving a UV light plus the FSB... I am concerned about a few things:

• The risk of being too high on the flow rate. I think this is minimal, for I now have a circulation pump running to add to the flow rate.
  
• The fact that filter and plants compete for nutrients
  
• Too what extent am I meaningfully increasing the biological capacity in my tank.
  

I'd like to add some more interesting inhabitants, in particular a small school of kuhli loaches, and a small posse of otocinclus...

Your concern about competition for nutrients is real, so personally I am of the opinion, "if it aint broke, don't fix it"

At most maybe consider a FSB filter driven by a separate pump inside the tank, but if it were my tank, I would stay with what you have, and add a Hydro Sponge Filter #2 or #3 to increase bio filtration and then monitor your plants.
This will cost you much less money (and yes I will lose a sale ).

Carl

[devonjohnsgard]

Seems like you have a good amount of flow now. You wouldn't need to upgrade, unless you really wanted too.

You also have a circulation pump. I would think flow is pretty high as it is. I know fish will like the current, but also want a place to get out of the current. So the whole tank doesn't need to be blasted.

Seems like you have a great balance already. I wouldn't want you to go through the hassle of messing with it.

[rogierfvv]

Thanks. I am going to repurpose the circulation pump... and I decided to go with the Filstar XPS plus the FSB #600, and I am really curious how that will affect water parameters. The tanks offers some shelter from the flow here and there, including the rock back wall and a clay pot with a plant.

Part of the ongoing experiment and learning.

[rogierfvv]

Wow! The API Filstar XP1 is indeed hands down the better canister filter compared to what I had, or many others that I have experienced. The elegance of the design, where you can simply disengage the whole hose manifold at once, is amazing!

However, I do have integration problems.

From the outflow, I am plumbed into the UV-light. However then I go to a smaller diameter (5/8") on the outflow of the UV and into the FSB, but then on the outflow of the FSB, I need to go into the XP1 discharge, and there, all I can do is to use a piece of 5/8" hose, and insert it into the API hose. In short, by bringing the whole outflow down a notch in terms of hose diameter, that seems a pretty awkward arrangement...

any better suggestions?

For now, it seems to me that constraining the XP1 in this fashion is not a great idea. From that standpoint, it would seem better to run the FSB from only a pump+pre-filter, and forget about the XP1 altogether. What say you?

[Carl]

Wow! The API Filstar XP1 is indeed hands down the better canister filter compared to what I had, or many others that I have experienced. The elegance of the design, where you can simply disengage the whole hose manifold at once, is amazing!

This is why I like this filter, however I will admit they have cheapened the filter and now include fewer parts than the earlier generations

However, I do have integration problems.

From the outflow, I am plumbed into the UV-light. However then I go to a smaller diameter (5/8") on the outflow of the UV and into the FSB, but then on the outflow of the FSB, I need to go into the XP1 discharge, and there, all I can do is to use a piece of 5/8" hose, and insert it into the API hose. In short, by bringing the whole outflow down a notch in terms of hose diameter, that seems a pretty awkward arrangement...

any better suggestions?

For now, it seems to me that constraining the XP1 in this fashion is not a great idea. From that standpoint, it would seem better to run the FSB from only a pump+pre-filter, and forget about the XP1 altogether. What say you?

Not sure why these problems, but maybe I am missing something here. While the tubing sizes are slightly different, i have had no issues that could not be solved by heating and clamping tubing to fit or using hose barb adapters

Resources:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/TubingInstallation.html
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PlumbingParts.html#hosebarbs

As for part two of this question, running the FSB filter using a pump certainly is another option, as I prefer to run one device per canister filter (often I would use a canister filter to run the UV and another for the FSB filter)

If the FSB Filter is hung on the back the Rio 1000 should work, if below the tank, the Rio 1100 or even 1700 should work. Other options include the AAP/SunSun JP-066 Pump

Reources:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/RioPlusPumps.html
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/ViaAqua306.html

Carl

[rogierfvv]

OMG, I never want to go through this again... a lot of reworking the plumbing, etc. but it's done. That Rena Filstar filter is a sure fire winner. What a solution for priming that filter. I found there is a lot to like about my old Hydor filter, but priming a canister with the pump like Hydor vs. the Filstar quick disconnect and fill-tube solution is no comparison! Hands-down winner... what was I waiting for so long?

The config looks like Filstar XPS >> TMC Vecton 200 UV >> Hydor 200 W heater (2nd tier heat after under-gravel cable) >> TMC FSB 600.

The biggest snafu was that it started like a charm the first time but then it hit an air pocket, and there was backflow in the FSB which plugged the whole thing up, and I had to dismantle everything and restart from scratch. In the process I was able to tweak the plumbing a bit, to reduce head pressure as much as possible. Still a little bit of a Rube Goldberg going down from 5/8" into the UV, to 1/2" coming out and going into the FSB and then coming out of the FSV and into a "U" it picks up 5/8" again to connect to the outflow tube. In all, it does seem to work. The only thing I would want to improve is quick disconnect couplings so that I can take the FSB off-line by itself if I had to.

The only remaining problem is that the UV did not come back in spite of a bulb replacement, so I'll have to check on that.

The result should be a powerful setup. Tanks is doing amazingly well.

[Carl]

Apr 25, 2017 15:16:45 GMT -5 rogierfvv said:

OMG, I never want to go through this again... a lot of reworking the plumbing, etc. but it's done. That Rena Filstar filter is a sure fire winner. What a solution for priming that filter. I found there is a lot to like about my old Hydor filter, but priming a canister with the pump like Hydor vs. the Filstar quick disconnect and fill-tube solution is no comparison! Hands-down winner... what was I waiting for so long?

The config looks like Filstar XPS >> TMC Vecton 200 UV >> Hydor 200 W heater (2nd tier heat after under-gravel cable) >> TMC FSB 600.

If anyone could figure out such a configuration, I knew you could
Glad it worked!

The biggest snafu was that it started like a charm the first time but then it hit an air pocket, and there was backflow in the FSB which plugged the whole thing up, and I had to dismantle everything and restart from scratch. In the process I was able to tweak the plumbing a bit, to reduce head pressure as much as possible. Still a little bit of a Rube Goldberg going down from 5/8" into the UV, to 1/2" coming out and going into the FSB and then coming out of the FSV and into a "U" it picks up 5/8" again to connect to the outflow tube. In all, it does seem to work. The only thing I would want to improve is quick disconnect couplings so that I can take the FSB off-line by itself if I had to.

Often in similar set ups I would place the return in a bucket then start; once running I will temporarily stop and re-connect to the aquarium, re-start, then pour water in the bucket back into the aquarium.

The only remaining problem is that the UV did not come back in spite of a bulb replacement, so I'll have to check on that.

You might check that the ends are firmly connected, I've made this mistake many times

The result should be a powerful setup. Tanks is doing amazingly well.

Carl

[devonjohnsgard]

Sounds like a great set up. I've learned using the valve with the sand filter has helped when working on the filter. Backflow will clog it. If there's a strong enough pump or you catch it before it settles all the way, it will start back up no problem. You could also think about a swing check valve. May solve the problem if the power ever stops.

[rogierfvv]

Thanks for all the feedback. I just watched the video on the bulb replacement for the Vecton UV unit, and notice that I should be replacing the quartz sleeve and the seals as well, so maybe I need to order those, but in the meantime I'll just double-check the connections.

[Carl]

Apr 27, 2017 6:37:15 GMT -5 rogierfvv said:

Thanks for all the feedback. I just watched the video on the bulb replacement for the Vecton UV unit, and notice that I should be replacing the quartz sleeve and the seals as well, so maybe I need to order those, but in the meantime I'll just double-check the connections.

Generally the quartz sleeve only needs to be replaced if broken or badly stained (beyond your ability to clean)

Carl

[rogierfvv]

OK, Operation successful. Those connectors for the UV bulb are a bit delicate...

Interestingly, in the process I am able to validate that indeed the addition of UV lowers ORP, it seems quite significantly. I am not sure about the reliability of my old ORP meter, but it seems the drop was 50-80 points after the UV came back on. Unfortunately I had stopped gathering the data after the loss of my whole aquarium spreadsheet last December.

Also, I ended up adding some Black Mollies to the tank, to combat some algae, this was one of the reasons I was agonizing about the business of overcrowding and to what extent I would expand the biological capacity of my setup with the addition of the FSB, and for now it seems to be working out, after the first two weeks of operation my nitrates remain very low. When I had installed the Filstar and the FSB, I had done a water change to, so the nitrates were low, but it almost seems as if they've gone down more, at least they certainly have not gone up.

[Carl]

May 6, 2017 8:13:53 GMT -5 rogierfvv said:

OK, Operation successful. Those connectors for the UV bulb are a bit delicate...

Interestingly, in the process I am able to validate that indeed the addition of UV lowers ORP, it seems quite significantly. I am not sure about the reliability of my old ORP meter, but it seems the drop was 50-80 points after the UV came back on. Unfortunately I had stopped gathering the data after the loss of my whole aquarium spreadsheet last December.

My findings, as well as more so observations, is that the more oxidizers present, the more the UV will affect the ORP

Carl