Question about Methylene Blue Bath/Drops in Eye

[Carl]

Jul 21, 2016 18:04:54 GMT -5 Lily said:

Thanks, Carl and devonjohnsgard. My fish are each at least 6" long.

Would you know which size Sanyu pellet would be best for them? What they get right now is too small... I've tried what was recommended in both PetSmart and a WaterGarden place once or twice: Larger pond pellets. The fish did not want to eat them. I think they were Tetra brand but I'm not sure...

I stopped with flakes a long time ago...I read that they are not good for Goldfish...something about it not being good for the fish to keep coming up to the surface of the water; something like that...

I'm confused as to which Paradigm food would be best suited to my Goldfish; any recommendations?

Generally the only size Sanyu available for goldfish is small, which is all I have used

The Herbivore is the AAP Custom fish food (Previously Paradigm) that I would suggest, especially for an older goldfish

Product Resources:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/SanyuGoldfishandKoiFood.html
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/ParadigmFoods.html


I would definitely steer clear of Tetra Fish Foods, these are among the worst

Please read this article:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html

Carl

[troybtj]

Jul 20, 2016 17:47:55 GMT -5 Lily said:

Many thanks to all of you.

Yesterday I purchased a box of Tetra 6 in 1 Easy Strips. The EasyStrips check: Chlorine, Alkalinity, Nitrite, Hardness, Nitrate and pH. Should they suffice?

I did see a master kit (can't remember brand), but didn't know if that would be too overwhelming for me. Are the results with a master kit more precise?

If I get the Eye Fungex, should I use it before I leave at the end of the month (and if so, how often and in what manner)? Directly to Crushy's eye, and/or a special bath outside the tank?

I have the API Master Test Kit, but honestly use the API 5 in 1 dip sticks for random checks if something seems off.    The best way to get used to them is using the drops kit/Master Test kit to see the color for the value a parameter is at, then get used to what "normal" is for same colors on test strips.   That way, when something seems wrong, a dip stick and a glance often gives you a very good idea of what is going on.

On the last of your posts, stating the fish gets a bit dopey after water changes:   This could be a few things, but probable things are pH changes due to KH increasing with water change, Nitrates/Nitrites going down gives the fish an "oxygen buzz",  and many others.     This is often a symptom of a non-cycled tank going too long between a water change, or "old tank syndrome" where the water has been unchanged so long it has "gone stale", meaning all useful mineral ions have been depleted.  This can also happen if the surface isn't disturbed much from filters/circulation, leading to oxygen shortages.

10% each week or every other weekend is the easiest, since low amounts are typically involved (compared to a 50% change...), it is quick insurance.  Just add SeaChem Prime to the replacement water and that will also neutralize any nasty oxidizers in the aquarium in addition to removing Chlorine from the tap water.   StressGuard added at water change time will also keep the fish cheerful. 

[Lily]

Thank you both again.

Looking at the Sanyu food...it looks like if a 2.2 lb bag is ordered for Koi/Goldfish it is in Medium pellet size.

[Carl]

Jul 25, 2016 15:36:26 GMT -5 Lily said:

Thank you both again.

Looking at the Sanyu food...it looks like if a 2.2 lb bag is ordered for Koi/Goldfish it is in Medium pellet size.

This is meant for ponds & then more for Koi.

The 8 oz is meant for aquarium goldfish

Carl

[Lily]

Thanks for the clarification, Carl. :-)

[Lily]

I thought that the local PetSmart/PETCO carried Stress Guard, but it looks like I'm wrong. I'm going out of town on Sunday...

PetSmart and PETCO carried products called StressZyme and Stress Coat (I think they were API products). Are these similar to Stress Guard? I believe it was the label on the Stress Coat which read much like the Seachem Prime I already have.

[Carl]

Jul 28, 2016 21:54:05 GMT -5 Lily said:

I thought that the local PetSmart/PETCO carried Stress Guard, but it looks like I'm wrong. I'm going out of town on Sunday...

PetSmart and PETCO carried products called StressZyme and Stress Coat (I think they were API products). Are these similar to Stress Guard? I believe it was the label on the Stress Coat which read much like the Seachem Prime I already have.

Stress Coat is a water conditioner plus Aloe, not a very effective product as per the claims

Please Read:
www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/04/aquarium-water-conditioners.html

Stress-Zyme is an aquarium bio filtration bio supplement (again not a very good one, mostly heterotrophs)

Please Read:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Nitrogen_Cycle.html#products

Unfortunately, neither really come close to the SeaChem StressGuard

Reference:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Seachem.html#stressguard

From the above page:
"SeaChem StressGuard is THE premium slime coat protection product.
StressGuard is useful to reduce stress and ammonia toxicity whenever handling or transporting fish.

*Contains protein active colloids.
This protein active colloidal agent actively seeks out any wounds, abrasions, or places where exposed proteins are and attaches to this area to help directly deliver the disinfectant in the product and start the healing process.
"

Carl

[Lily]

My son and I got pretty sick and had to stay home all week, recovering. I will order the Stress Guard soon. Doing a water change today and hoping to add a 70-gal Hydro-Sponge which arrived yesterday. :-) I have a question about that but will post elsewhere; in case it could help out someone else too.

Nancy

[Lily]

Hi--

A long time since I've been here...

Water parameters this evening: Nitrate: looks between 30-50 (getting high; need to do water change), Nitrite 0, Total Hardness 300, Total Chlorine 0, Total Alkalinity 0, pH 6.8

Crushy (white goldfish): Other than his eyes, he looks the same as usual. I'm not sure if he's eating... His eyes are more cloudy (right much worse than left) sometimes appears to a little bit of bloody tinge on outer area. Dorothy (orange) sits a lot at the bottom of the tank, takes rather slow breaths, but she ALWAYS comes over to eat. They are eating your Herbivore food and occasionally the Sanyu (my husband used the Sanyu when I was out of town...said it was easier to deal with). I'm sticking with the Herbivore b/c I believe you said that was the best thing for them.

I feel so bad b/c I've been dealing with a lot of personal matters lately and have not been medicating them. I'm trying to get back on track.

August 22nd: Replaced foam and carbon filters (they were so clogged). Last water change: August 31st; 25%. Also thoroughly cleaned filter at that time (Fluval 70; 60-gallon tank)

You mentioned using 2 or 3 different meds for them in baths... I need to go back in the thread again to see what they were. I'm hoping something can help improve their quality of life; I'm dreading that I may have to euthanize them.

Going to order the Stress Guard and Fungex, and a couple Medicated Wonder shells. If you think the same meds might still be of benefit, please let me know.


Thanks, nancy

[Lily]

Hi there...

What was recommended in earlier posts (on Page 1 I believe), was Methylene Blue (which I have), AAP Furan 2 and Kanaplex baths.

One thing I forgot to mention again is that Dorothy still has those red fingerlike things projecting out of her gills..

Nancy

[Carl]

Nanc;

At this point, it would be best to have a complete history of treatment, so as to know where to go from here

I noted you stated an alkalinity of 0, this is not healthy as there should be at least some alkalinity (KH). Generally at least 50 ppm (generally higher with goldfish)

I looked back at the pictures you posted too, & it is noteworthy that the goldfish with the cloudy eye displays symptoms that generally indicate a fish that has issues possibly including age that are past the point of no return from my experience

Carl

[Lily]

This is what I could find. I save my calendars every year, but unfortunately couldn't find them for about 3 of the 8 years I've had these fish (2011, 12, and 14. I'm sure I used Melafix on them before in the past; also some antibiotic from PetSmart or PETCO-- it must've been in one or more of the "missing years." Hope the following will be sufficient. I'm really sorry if there's incomplete info below; there may have been days I forgot to write in what I did. :-(

2016

3/7-Took out carbon and started Melafix; 10-12% water chg (was filthy from buildup of food they didn't like)
3/15 20% water change

4/6 25% water change and Melafix
4/9 ran out of melafix
4/16 Start Melafix again
4/27 25% water chg ; added filter cartridge back

5/20 Melafix
5/21 25% wter change; w/aquarium sea salt added (few tbsps)

6/6 Triple Sulfa 1st dose
6/7 Triple Sulfa
6/9 25% water change and 3rd dose of Triple Sulfa
6/10 Triple Sulfa
6/12 25% water change
6/18 Filter change (didn't specify which--may have been the Bio Wheel, which I no longer use)
6/20 Added Fluval 70 back to tank; Triple Sulfa, Day 1
6/21 Triple Sulfa, Day 2
6/23 11AM 25% water change and Triple Sulfa; 11PM Triple Sulfa
6/25 Fish had Methylene Blue bath; also did 25% water change
6/26--Left for vacation that evening; pretty sure we used a Wonder Shell (I think it was non-medicated)

7/6 MB baths
7/7 MB baths, again on both fish; Crushy had MB directly in both eyes
7/17 5-8% water change

8/6 25% water change. Placed a medicated Wonder shell in tank; removed carbon.
8/7-19 On vacation; day before began using Herbivore food; spouse switched to the Sanyu pellets.
8/22 Replaced Fluval foam and carbon filters
8/31 25% water change and thorough cleaning of filter

And of course, I desperately need to do a water change; doing that this afternoon.

Nancy

[Carl]

Thanks for sharing your aquarium treatment.

What I do see is an inconsistent use of medications, in particular medications or combinations there of for often difficult pathogens such as Aeromonas.

Melafix unfortunately is not an effective medication/treatment for what your fish are displaying.
More of a "first aid"; Ref. www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication4.html#melafix

The Triple Sulfa treatment was closer to consistency, but likely was not enough and possibly not effective either way on the pathogens in question.

honestly at this point there may be no 100% effective treatment regimen, but I would start with keeping the aquarium as clean as possible.
Look into Troy's post about a quick and easy test for Redox and tank cleanliness:
everythingaquatic.proboards.com/thread/4379/quick-aquarium-health-test-kmno2

Definitely keep the Wonder Shells in the aquarium, and you might consider a very strong treatment with a Medicated Wonder Shell along with Furan 2 (but start with first suggestion)

Carl

[Lily]

Thank you, Carl. I forgot to ask what product you might recommend for water hardness as well. On the package of Test Strips, Tetra recommends/suggests using a product of theirs called EasyBalance...

Should I forget for now trying the Eye Fungex for Crushy's Cloudy Eye??

[devonjohnsgard]

Carl's out for the weekend.

He'd usually recommend something like SeaChem Alkalinity.
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Seachem.html

For the treatment of the eye, I know Carl would recommend making sure your following all the water conditioning advice, or the med wont work. If you get that all taken care of, I'd say try the the Eye Fungex.

[Carl]

Sept 24, 2016 12:57:28 GMT -5 Lily said:

Thank you, Carl. I forgot to ask what product you might recommend for water hardness as well. On the package of Test Strips, Tetra recommends/suggests using a product of theirs called EasyBalance...

Should I forget for now trying the Eye Fungex for Crushy's Cloudy Eye??

NEVER use Tetra Easy Balance.

From:
www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/04/aquarium-water-conditioners.html#easy_balance

"I have also researched the ingredients which leaves me with even more questions (especially since results seem to be mixed at best).
One of the major problems with Tetra Easy Balance is its sodium based base.
This makes this product work like a sodium based water softener driving out essential mineral cations necessary for osmoregulation, this often results in a too low GH unbalanced KH/GH and poor Redox Balance."

For alkalinity (carbonate hardness), I would suggest the SeaChem Malanwi Buffer for goldfish as it is ionically balanced for fish tanks that need more than just raising alkalinity. (vs a planted aquarium)
For genera hardness I suggest the AAP Wonder Shell

Resource:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Seachem.html#malawi

Carl

[devonjohnsgard]

I think I misread. Great catch Carl.

[troybtj]

When doing your water changes, are you vacuuming the substrate thoroughly, including under wood/decorations?

Is the surface of the water being disturbed from filter output? If there aren't "folds" in the water, you might want to adjust your filter output so gases (air) are exchanged well.

For KH, I'd suggest the same as Carl, Seachem Malawi Buffer This is a critical part, Carl has a great writeup about it on the AAP site. If it "runs out", there isn't control of the pH. Decomposing food and other waste create nitric acid and other things in the process of creating the nitrates. KH is essential to keep the pH steady by buffering those acids. When KH runs out, buffering is gone, so pH can swing by a digit or more in the course of a day.

For GH, Wonder shells bump GH up. These help your fishies with the minerals they need.

A little TLC and more frequent water changes, and your fishies should improve in overall health. Maintenance is a lot cheaper than medicines.

[Carl]

Oct 2, 2016 6:32:31 GMT -5 troybtj said:

When doing your water changes, are you vacuuming the substrate thoroughly, including under wood/decorations?

Is the surface of the water being disturbed from filter output? If there aren't "folds" in the water, you might want to adjust your filter output so gases (air) are exchanged well.

For KH, I'd suggest the same as Carl, Seachem Malawi Buffer This is a critical part, Carl has a great writeup about it on the AAP site. If it "runs out", there isn't control of the pH. Decomposing food and other waste create nitric acid and other things in the process of creating the nitrates. KH is essential to keep the pH steady by buffering those acids. When KH runs out, buffering is gone, so pH can swing by a digit or more in the course of a day.

For GH, Wonder shells bump GH up. These help your fishies with the minerals they need.

A little TLC and more frequent water changes, and your fishies should improve in overall health. Maintenance is a lot cheaper than medicines.

Very well stated, thanks!


Carl

[Lily]

devonjohnsgard and John, Thank you so much for your reply; sorry it took so long for me to get back. Fish doing about the same, though Crushy's eyes look a bit worse.

In response to your question, I do vacuum the substrate well; though in years past there had been many times I did not vacuum under the decorations at all. Once I began doing that, I was shocked to see all the debris which accumulated (unfortunately just didn't think it would settle under those objects).

I took the advice of someone in the forum a while back, and with nearly every water change (I try to do 25% every 2 weeks; though I think someone said 10% each week would be better--?) I remove some of the gravel. I also have removed a few decorations (though there weren't many to begin with).

Just a mention: Been using the Hydro Sponge IV filter in addition to the Fluval 70 for close to a month now; seems to be doing a good job keeping the tank clean.

Nanc