Lily
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Posts: 94
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Jun 5, 2016 16:48:21 GMT -5
Post by Lily on Jun 5, 2016 16:48:21 GMT -5
Hi-- I have 2 goldfish (one comet and one fancy, I believe). One of the them (the fancy one) was won by my son at a church festival in July of 2008. Actually, he won 2 fish, but one died--almost lost the surviving one as well (we were on vacation; I'd purchased a small temporary tank at a local pet store in this small town, and I believe the employee instructed me to {accidentally} overdose the fish on some water treatment). We buried the deceased fish at my parents', and once we got home, bought a feeder fish (named "Crushy") at PetSmart, so the remaining fish ("Dorothy") would have a buddy.
I'm getting ready to treat them with Triple Sulfa for Cloudy Eye and some kind of wound behind the gill (Crushy) and Septicemia (Dorothy has blood in her fins). I'm wondering, if I have a 60-gallon tank, how do I dose? If the package says one packet for every 10 gallons but water is displaced due to gravel, air pump, and decorations, do I consider it a 50-gallon instead?
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Post by Carl on Jun 6, 2016 9:22:20 GMT -5
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Jun 6, 2016 15:42:30 GMT -5
Welcome. welcome, welcome!
That's about right with kinda figuring it out with how much things are in the tank. I agree, you don't have to be worried about overdose.
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Post by troybtj on Jun 6, 2016 20:24:58 GMT -5
If you want to get mathematical about it, you can measure the depth of your gravel, multiply length by width and depth, and then multiply the cubic feet of gravel by 7.5 for the number of gallons displaced. (It's Actually 7.4805195 gallons per cubic foot [231 cubic inches], but 7.5 is easier and close enough, while I'm at it... 1 gallon of freshwater is 8.34 pounds pounds in weight, so a cubic foot is 62.42796 pounds in weight, for floor capacity considerations). Sorry about that, OCD. I'd just dose it as a 60, since there's water in the filters, plants and decorations are full of water, some of the medicine will be absorbed by things that aren't the fish you are treating, etc. The other option is to set up a hospital tank for them, which would save you on medicine costs, nearly paying for itself. A $15 10 gallon aquarium and an Air powered sponge filter from AAP. No gravel or carbon in it, just the sponge filter and frequent water changes. Seachem Prime and StressGuard are your bestest friends if there is an ammonia or nitrite spike.
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Post by Carl on Jun 7, 2016 9:10:42 GMT -5
If you want to get mathematical about it, you can measure the depth of your gravel, multiply by width and depth, and then multiply the cubic feet of gravel by 7.5 for the number of gallons displaced. Excellent! Do we not need the length too, not just width and depth (height)? Carl
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Post by troybtj on Jun 7, 2016 10:03:08 GMT -5
If you want to get mathematical about it, you can measure the depth of your gravel, multiply by width and depth, and then multiply the cubic feet of gravel by 7.5 for the number of gallons displaced. Excellent! Do we not need the length too, not just width and depth (height)? Carl One can write a thousand words and have them ignored, but leave out one word and everybody notices...
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Post by Carl on Jun 7, 2016 12:42:09 GMT -5
Excellent! Do we not need the length too, not just width and depth (height)? Carl One can write a thousand words and have them ignored, but leave out one word and everybody notices... Yep, sorry! Welcome to my world! All that aside, I think this was VERY helpful, as I have been taught this conversion years ago, but it was not one I have really used of late (more just guestimation) Carl
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Lily
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Posts: 94
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I'm New
Jun 13, 2016 11:39:09 GMT -5
Post by Lily on Jun 13, 2016 11:39:09 GMT -5
Thank you so much for all of your help!
I gave my fish the 2-dose treatment as recommended on the box of Triple Sulfa; finished on Friday. Thinking I should try another round; not seeing big improvements. Appears that the wound near the gill on my white goldfish, "Crushy," is healing; however Cloudy Eye is still present. The other goldfish, "Dorothy," still has blood in her tail (though it does not appear any worse). Don't think I mentioned this before b/c I was unaware it was an illness: She has red gills with what look like tiny "villi" sticking out of them. Also, she is breathing rapidly a lot of the time; often staying near the filter. Does this mean she feels as if she is suffocating? She used to come to the surface of the water a lot and make splashes; realized she hasn't been doing that at all (actually I just remember one or two times) in the last couple of months.
Just purchased a new bubbler and air stones; put them in tank last night. Thinking maybe I should purchase another bubbler as well; maybe there's not enough oxygen in the tank, too...?
I have a few more questions, if anyone might be able to answer:
--How is a fish measured--from one end of the body to the other, or does it include the farthest tips of the tail as well?
--Is a swab recommended for Cloudy Eye? That seems so delicate, to be touching the eye. I did read the article but still am a bit confused about what to do.
--Is Methylene Blue dropped into the eyes, or just into the bath/dip water?
--Is a large clean bucket sufficient for a dip?
--Can one have too much filtration? I have a Bio-Wheel for up to 50-gallon (thought the tank was labeled 55 or 60. Should I add a 10-gallon filter? (I do have a Fluval 70 which currently am not using. It works fine; just found it to be so noisy, and the 3 layers of filtration messy and annoying to deal with. Is that actually better? I read about the Bio-Wheels not being "all that...")
--Should I start using Wonder Shells? (this is new to me; just learned about them here)
--Should I consider removing the gravel in order to keep things cleaner?
Sorry for such an overload of questions. Getting stressed out about these fish and don't want them to suffer.
Thanks, Nancy
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Post by Carl on Jun 13, 2016 12:16:06 GMT -5
Thank you so much for all of your help! I gave my fish the 2-dose treatment as recommended on the box of Triple Sulfa; finished on Friday. Thinking I should try another round; not seeing big improvements. Appears that the wound near the gill on my white goldfish, "Crushy," is healing; however Cloudy Eye is still present. The other goldfish, "Dorothy," still has blood in her tail (though it does not appear any worse). Don't think I mentioned this before b/c I was unaware it was an illness: She has red gills with what look like tiny "villi" sticking out of them. Also, she is breathing rapidly a lot of the time; often staying near the filter. Does this mean she feels as if she is suffocating? She used to come to the surface of the water a lot and make splashes; realized she hasn't been doing that at all (actually I just remember one or two times) in the last couple of months. Generally Triple Sulfa is not the best treatment for cloudy eye and often it takes combination treatments along with optimal water conditions to clear this and the causes of Septicemia. You also may be dealing with a parasite in the gills. References: www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/03/trematodes-and-nematodes-in-fish.htmlwww.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2009/01/streptococcus-eye-infections.htmlwww.fish-as-pets.com/2013/06/red-pest-invented-fish-disease-actually.html A picture may help determine if your tank has enough surface tension being broken for oxygen exchange along with bio load of the fish. But it likely would not hurt to add more Generally I measure from the 'nose' to the indent in the tail, but I am not going to say this is 100% correct Yes, while I have successfully treated cloudy eyes without a swab and/or bath, this is generally only in more mild cases or when environmental causes were the major cause and once corrected, it did not take much treatment Generally, in tank (hospital is best) along with a swab possibly followed by a bath is best I also have a couple packages of the Aquatronics Eye Fungus available via an invoice (not for sale on the AAP website) Reference: www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2009/01/streptococcus-eye-infections.html Yes, it is a mild eye swab as well as used in baths. For a swab, it does not need to be diluted unlike Potassium Permanganate (which is stronger) Yes The Bio Wheel filters are not all that great for bio filtration, which based on your fish' symptoms, a lot of the problem may be too much organic decomp Any well set canister filter will beat the Bio Wheel filter. As well a Good AAP Hydro Sponge Filter will beat out a Bio Wheel too by a large margin at that. This said, a new bio filter does not start working overnight, it will take weeks, and with medication being dumped into an aquarium, this will slow it further References/Further Reading: www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2006/12/do-bio-wheels-really-work.htmlwww.americanaquariumproducts.com/Nitrogen_Cycle.htmlwww.fishbeginner.info/home/nitrogen-cycle/Yes, these help with mineral Cations. I would start with ¼ to ½ the full dose Resource for AAP Wonder Shells: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/MedicatedWonderShell.htmlWhile a bare bottom tank is definitely best for a hospital tank and it also prevents mulm from accumulating that can breed Aeromonas infections, it also can be helpful for bio filtration. I would make sure you are vacuuming regularly (in between water changes a recirculating battery vacuum can be used too) If this is colored gravel, often this peels allowing for trapping of mulm and bacterial slime. In this case a slow replacement of 1/3 the gravel over 6 weeks is recommended Reference/Further Reading: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_cleaning.htmlCarl
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Jun 13, 2016 15:01:36 GMT -5
Post by devonjohnsgard on Jun 13, 2016 15:01:36 GMT -5
+1^^ Great answer.
and no, you can never have to much filtration.
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Lily
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Posts: 94
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Jun 16, 2016 10:40:17 GMT -5
Post by Lily on Jun 16, 2016 10:40:17 GMT -5
Thanks again. I noticed that the blood in Dorothy's tail is noticeably less; Crushy's wound still looks like it's healing over (How long does it take for scales to regrow...or don't they?) but his eyes are still clouded.
So, it would be OK for me to fire up the Fluval, along with the (probably not very useful) BioWheel 200 currently in operation?
Would you recommend the Eye Fungex product along with Methylene Blue? (Drop the eye product directly onto his eyes (either before or after) having him swim in a bucket with the Methylene Blue?
Are there directions on the package?... I figure when I take him out of the water he's going to be jumping around quite a bit. I'm just a bit nervous about him dying... Do you just have another person hold the fish down when you administer the eye drops? Is it safe for me to touch the fish with my bare hands? (I've read things before about this removing or damaging their slime coat).
Nancy
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Lily
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Posts: 94
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Jun 16, 2016 10:41:52 GMT -5
Post by Lily on Jun 16, 2016 10:41:52 GMT -5
Sorry--I probably should have started a separate post for this, rather than putting it within the "I'm New" message; this could help someone else with the same problem.
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Jun 16, 2016 12:46:36 GMT -5
Post by devonjohnsgard on Jun 16, 2016 12:46:36 GMT -5
Thanks again. I noticed that the blood in Dorothy's tail is noticeably less; Crushy's wound still looks like it's healing over (How long does it take for scales to regrow...or don't they?) but his eyes are still clouded. So, it would be OK for me to fire up the Fluval, along with the (probably not very useful) BioWheel 200 currently in operation? Would you recommend the Eye Fungex product along with Methylene Blue? (Drop the eye product directly onto his eyes (either before or after) having him swim in a bucket with the Methylene Blue? Are there directions on the package?... I figure when I take him out of the water he's going to be jumping around quite a bit. I'm just a bit nervous about him dying... Do you just have another person hold the fish down when you administer the eye drops? Is it safe for me to touch the fish with my bare hands? (I've read things before about this removing or damaging their slime coat). Nancy Scales grow back. They just take time depending on how the water chemistry is/clean and how serve the damage is. I seen scales grow back in a matter of a couple weeks. I'd image UV sterilization really helps with this reprocess. Best would be to use the Methylene Blue with the Fungex, but the could heal with just Methylene Blue. Hard to say. MB is a chemical, the other is a medication... You'd drop it in before the bath yes. You can hook the Fluval up at any time. I've noticed the calmer we can stay while giving the swab/drip, the calmer the fish will be. If you can be quick, you may not have to hold him down. Cupping in the hand seems to help claim. Best is not to touch them, but if need be you can. Just make sure you have clean hands. The calmer, quicker, less touching is best, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do. The slime coat can be worn off if there's a lot of struggle and you hold him for a long time.
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Lily
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Posts: 94
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Jun 16, 2016 12:53:15 GMT -5
Post by Lily on Jun 16, 2016 12:53:15 GMT -5
Thanks again, Carl.
If I didn't use my hands, how else would I administer the eye drops? Would I place him on the floor or on a table? If so, what is the safest thing to set him on...a paper towel, towel, cardboard, plastic tablecloth (clean stuff, of course).
Forgot to ask... Regarding the Good AAP Hydro Sponge Filter, is that something that you simply place in your tank, or is it connected to some larger canister/filtration device?
P.S. Just realized/noticed this thread already is in the Fish Illness Help section! :-)
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Jun 16, 2016 16:13:50 GMT -5
Post by Carl on Jun 16, 2016 16:13:50 GMT -5
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Jun 17, 2016 8:58:12 GMT -5
Post by devonjohnsgard on Jun 17, 2016 8:58:12 GMT -5
Right...setting the fish anywhere takes too long in my opinion. It should be a smooth, pull with the net, set in hand still in the net and drop. Back in to the tank or light methylene blue bath. Should be that quick. Setting down is a slow process, which adds stress and could damage the coat.
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Lily
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Posts: 94
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Jun 17, 2016 11:56:15 GMT -5
Post by Lily on Jun 17, 2016 11:56:15 GMT -5
Thank You. I'm sorry, the questions never seem to end!
Should I first use regular Wonder Shells, or medicated? (Considering I'm doing another round of Triple Sulfa and the Methylene Blue bath)
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Lily
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Jun 17, 2016 11:56:49 GMT -5
Post by Lily on Jun 17, 2016 11:56:49 GMT -5
Do I call or e-mail a request to order the Fungex?
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Lily
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Post by Lily on Jun 17, 2016 18:31:10 GMT -5
Thank you Carl and devonjohnsgard. I hope you enjoy your weekend with your family.
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Jun 18, 2016 14:15:33 GMT -5
Post by devonjohnsgard on Jun 18, 2016 14:15:33 GMT -5
Do I call or e-mail a request to order the Fungex? Email it to AAP. That'd be best.
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