BLACKPUFF

[puffercorps]

Rescued GSP from Pet Club



IP's, Fin Rot, tail clamped, black belly, good apetite.



Quarantined and treated 4 days with Paraguard, w/daily 25% wc - Brightened but still black belly



Followed up with 5 day General Cure food soak regimen. No change in belly. still black and underweight, tail clamping much less more emotional than from illness.



Recovered from the fin rot, color was good, bright attitude, but still exhibiting the black belly.

He had been quarantined 4 weeks and so I released him to a commune of 5 where his belly went normal white and he was actively exploring, but in a short time 1 bigger puff started harrassing him. I moved him to the hospital wards 37 gallon observation tank. He retained no outward injurys but his belly was black again. He began swimming up and down the wall endlessly.

I summed it up to possibly being an emotional issue.



I then introduced him to a different commune of 6 in a 55 gallon.

He swam to the bottom stayed there until the next day where i could see he was dark and was hyperventilating. Wanting to protect the others, i removed him.



He is now in the 20 gallon hospital tank where he is now resting on the gravel under the filter intake.

He is no longer hyperventilating, his eyes are bright, he seems quite willing and able to move about normaly, his apetite is ok, but not nearly as voracious, but his tail is clamped hard, he's shy of me moving him all over the damm place, and he still has the black belly and dark coloring



All 10 tanks are:

0 - amonia, nitrite, nitrate

8.0 - ph

sg - 1.008 - 1.012



daily meal varies bloodworms, prawns in shell, clams, mealworms.



25% w/c daily for all tanks for Shelter's bi-monthly Prazi-Pro deworming routine of which he has been taking part in since Monday

This is the best pic he'll allow:

[Carl]

You seem to already know what is best for your puffers, including the fact that these little guys can get very emotional

A couple thoughts;

*Try adding Garlic to his fish food soak (the SeaChem Garlic Guard has stabilized Vitamin-C too)

*Try a Medicated Wonder Shell

Resources:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Seachem.html#garlic
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/MedicatedWonderShell.html

Carl

[devonjohnsgard]

^^+1...That's what I was thinking.

Other than that, I was thinking you could sing him a nice song to brighten up his day emotional little buggers.

[puffercorps]

I need to stock up on meds.
I'll be heading over to your store right after I throw the last of my prazipro in the comune he was in. I just found another what looks like an injured gil, but im not taking ant chances.

Can you tell me what you guys keep on hand in your medicine cabinets?

[Carl]

Here is a list of what I recommend keeping on hand from my Aquarium Disease Prevention Article (Section #10)

"Methylene Blue
For a medicated bath, see link below for instructions:
How to Perform a Fish Bath, Dip, or Swab

An complimentary or possibly alternative product that should also be kept on hand is SeaChem StressGuard.
This product promotes a slime coat via an active colloidal protein agent actively seeks out any wounds, abrasions, or places where exposed proteins are and attaches to this area to help directly deliver the disinfectant in the product and start the healing process. This is a VASTLY superior product than many of the popular old standby products such as Stress Coat, Novaqua, etc. WHY? Instead adding "blobs" of aloe, synthetic slimes, etc. like most other products, StressGuard contains protein active colloids.
These protein active colloidal agents actively seeks out any wounds, abrasions, or places where exposed proteins are and attaches to this area to help directly deliver the disinfectant in the product and start the healing process.

This is must have product to have on hand for use with most fish introductions, disease treatment regimens, etc. The exception is not to use with products containing Copper, but even then these products can be added a day after using StressGuard (such as the also highly recommended Medicated Wonder Shells).

Pimafix;
An excellent albeit mild herbal gram negative anti bacterial and anti fungal for early stage treatment (generally not full blown diseases).

Melafix;
The cousin treatment to Pimafix which is more gram positive and generally less effective, however it is still useful to have on hand to combine with Pimafix or to treat just by itself usually in the case of fish injuries or ulcers, especially in pond fish.
The best way to think of Melafix is as a treatment used like you would Neosporin for a wound in humans, except that Melafix is used in the water.

Medicated Wonder Shells;
Excellent for prevention of many external parasites such as Ich and velvet, these are also useful for fungus/Saprolegnia.
Quite bluntly, these are one of the best follow up and preventative treatments available and should be part of any serious aquarium keepers "on hand" arsenal. As well, I strongly recommend using the Medicated Wonder Shell ANYTIME a new fish is added to an existing fish only aquarium.
Please note that these are safe for snails when used properly, but use with more delicate invertebrates such as many shrimp species, should be avoided.

This product is especially useful when introducing sensitive fish such as Discus (which also often suffer from lack of many minerals that this product also provides). Wonder Shells also come in bowl size.
It is also noteworthy, the use of Regular Wonder Shells (even if not used on a regular basis) be included during any treatment since Wonder Shells are a proven way to increase essential mineral cations that fish need even more during times of stress or disease. Reference: Aquarium Chemistry; Depletion of Positive Ions

Quick Cure;
One of the strongest Ich & anti parasitic treatments available.

OR
ParaGuard
SeaChem ParaGuard makes an excellent substitute for more sensitive fish and more recent tests have shown this to be one of the more effective Ich/external parasite treatments available today, although Quick Cure is generally better for Costia.

Kanaplex (Kanamycin));
A very effective gram negative antibiotic, which can be combined with Nitrofurazone or Metronidazole. It MUST be combined with Nitrofurazone for and effective Columnaris treatment.

Metronidazole;
A unique internal and external anti parasite treatment that also has anti-bacterial properties (especially internal bacterial issues of the gut).

Nitrofurazone (Furan Two);
Excellent for lower ph applications for gram negative and some gram positive infections.

Triple Sulfa or Maracyn Plus (Contains Sulfamethazine and Trimethoprim);
Great for collapsed or torn fins as well a strongly recommended back up to Ich Treatments such as Quick Cure for common secondary infections. Good treatments for many causes of Septicemia (also incorrectly called Red Pest).
Also an excellent standby if others such as Kanamycin or Tetracycline fail

Sodium Chloride (plain salt) and Epsom Salts;
Sodium chloride will help with osmotic function in your display aquarium and Epsom salts (best used in a hospital tank) are also helpful for improving osmotic function (in diseases such as Dropsy.

See these articles for more:
*Use of Salt in Freshwater Aquariums
*Proper Osmotic Function

Neomycin (Neoplex)
This is a “maybe” medication to keep on hand, I find its uses a little more limited, however it can be very useful for diseases of the digestive tract due to some of its properties."

Reference:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Disease.html

Carl

[devonjohnsgard]

^^^1+ That's about what I have in my stock.

[puffercorps]

Beautiful!

I have alot of shopping to do.
And I'm going to American Aquarium Products!
I want to help you guys out as much as possible. Can I set up an account?
We us ALOT of salt, but I don't think I can handle the shipping cost on that.

You guys could get backin the black on the salt i use.

[Carl]

Apr 8, 2016 0:00:30 GMT -5 puffercorps said:

Beautiful!

I have alot of shopping to do.
And I'm going to American Aquarium Products!
I want to help you guys out as much as possible. Can I set up an account?
We us ALOT of salt, but I don't think I can handle the shipping cost on that.

You guys could get backin the black on the salt i use.

For an account, we use PayPal, which can be set up with Pay Later or tied to a bank account or credit card

We have the best/healthiest salt anywhere which is made in Germany- Tropic Marine Reef Salt!!

$3.19 lb. or $21.99 for 7.5 lbs
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/BulkSeaSaltFerts.html#reef-salt

I also suggest reading this article (in particular the brackish section):
www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2008/03/salt-in-freshwater-aquariums.html

Carl

[devonjohnsgard]

Make sure to get those electrolytes! Really, they should be having a constant supply of it, not only when they're sick.

[puffercorps]

I am SO GLAD to know you!

I've asked all around about that.

It seemed to me like there must be stuff to put in the water besides Prime and reef salt.

I dont have time to study all the details. Are you referring to negative ions? or something to do with electricity in the water. NOT exactly electricity, DUH! But the healthy stuff.
Oh hell....just tell me what to throw in there.

In the meantime, I'll read your wonderful article, Mr Strohmeyer.
I just dont know how I've managed all this time without you!

You too, Devon.

Thank you both very much! )))

[Carl]

Positive ions (Cations versus Anions)

And yes this is basically an electrical charge


Reference:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Redox_Potential.html

From the above article:
"*Oxidation describes the loss of an electron by a molecule, atom or ion.
Another way to look at this is to lose, or cause to lose, hydrogen atoms.
EXAMPLE: Redox processes such as the oxidation of carbon to yield carbon dioxide.
Oxidation is the LACK of electrons by a molecule.
Oxidation is when the molecule can accept electrons from a reduced molecule, thus oxidizing.

*Reduction describes the gain of an electron by a molecule, atom or ion.
Another way to look at this is remove oxygen atoms or add hydrogen atoms.
EXAMPLE: The reduction of carbon by hydrogen to yield methane (CH4).
Reduction is the GAIN of electrons by a molecule.
Reduction is when a molecule can give positive electrons to an oxidized molecule, thus ceasing the oxidation of the molecule.

Another example: Calcium (Ca2+) or Magnesium (Mg2+) which initially are composed of two positively charged ions immersed in a sea of movable electrons may have given up all possible electrons to cells/molecules under oxidation.
It is for this reason, then that positively charged calcium and magnesium supplies must be constantly renewed; without this “fresh” positively charged calcium, etc. your Redox balance will suffer.

Think of it this way; a battery "works" only when a positive and a negative electrode are present to maintain an electrical current. When the positive plates become exhausted, the battery is no longer functional, even though the metal plates and other "ingredients" for the battery are still present.
So it is that your GH or Calcium Test may show adequate minerals, but these minerals have been oxidized and thus rendering the test inaccurate as per ESSENTIAL positively charged calcium ions. This why it is folly to attempt to drive down GH to very low levels in a misguided attempt to replicate certain environmental biotopes based on old school opinions of GH.

Here is an excellent article further explaining how a battery works as it relates to Redox, both oxidation and reduction, and both Anodes and Cathodes (think Anions and Cations).
This also explains why a mineral "salt such as CaCO3 (Calcium Carbonate) can have a positive (Cation) ion charge.
Basics of Electrochemistry"


Carl

[devonjohnsgard]

Gotta love the electrical charge!

[puffercorps]

time to drag my brain outa moth balls...


So HOW do i test for this "Redox"?

[Carl]

Apr 12, 2016 8:46:21 GMT -5 puffercorps said:

time to drag my brain outa moth balls...


So HOW do i test for this "Redox"?

A real basic test utilizes a product most fish-keepers have on hand: Methylene Blue as shown in the article



Reference:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Redox_Potential.html

A better test involves a Redox Meter:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquariumtestkit.html#redox

But what is important to note, is Redox Balance is more about maintaining this "Balance" with oxidizers and reduces via procedures noted within the article such as mineral Cations (water changes, Wonder Shells, etc help here), UV sterilization, a healthy bio filter system, even lighting.

Carl

[devonjohnsgard]

Apr 12, 2016 8:46:21 GMT -5 puffercorps said:

time to drag my brain outa moth balls...


So HOW do i test for this "Redox"?

bahaha... lol. Common' puffer chick! Puffers love Redox too!

[puffercorps]

omg.

Mr Carl, speak American. Can't you just TELL me what to do?

You're asking me to UNDERSTAND how this stuff works, and I TRIED! i tried o gawd i tried

I just watched Devons video, and tried to retain the info, but I kept gettin distracted by those twinkling eye's of his. It's really not fair mixing 2 entirely seperate area's of the brain together, and making them fight for dominance. I admit it, thinky men are hot. PLUS I'm double handicapped cause I'm old.

I'll have to watch the thing 10 more times, and hope the contents find purchase on this slippery old grey matter. I'll throw a towel over the screen.

[Carl]

You provided a smile first thing in the morning with your comment, thanks!

I would suggest reading this section of the Redox Article which deals with methods for optmizing Redox without too much science jargon:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Redox_Potential.html#redox_methods

Carl

[devonjohnsgard]

Sorry about that...

lol.

It just comes down to the acids and alkaline you put into the tank. Just like what we eat, it can be an acid food or alkaline. What type of water the fish live in can lean/shift more towards acids or alk.

[puffercorps]

Oh i'm going for ACID side tonight for sure! That looks pretty good.
I was a hippy like you Devon for awhile back when i nearly killed my liver. ate alot of kale.

sooooo.....i know youre not suggesting i serve a vegie plate to the residents tonight. Wonder Shells right?

My ph is 8. and I got this stuff yesterday called Acurel Health Guard. It says its an Elecrtolyte Stabilizer. says its safe for puffs.
What do you guys think?

[Carl]

I have not used nor can I find any published ingredients for Acurel Health Guard, which always concerns me.
As well this a product ONLY sold by discounters which further worries me as to it being a reasonable product and living up to any claims.

As for Wonder Shells, these are only part of the "puzzle" for Redox maintenance, while it is obvious I think this is an excellent product, by itself it is not going to solve all Redox balance issues.

As per the section in the Redox article I linked to earlier, other aspects that affect Redox include lighting, use of true UV Sterilization, water changes, wise use of aquarium treatments, and use of water conditioners during stress, as most are Redox Reducers.

Carl