|
Post by childofiam on Jan 31, 2017 14:37:37 GMT -5
Two things; Hanna has pH probes on back order so it may be a month before I get the replacement probe. and On my RO system I changed the membrane and both filters. I added a micro meter to measure the amount of RO I am producing and another one to meter total gallons going through the Ro system. In doing this I had to rotate the RO line output up to the top so the meter sensor sits level. I am now producing .21 liters a minute, this is 3.33 gallons per hour or 79 gallons per 24 hours. How is this happening? TDS of RO=2 and KH 9 ppm This is very consistent as I make on average 30 gallons in about 8 hours every day since 1/11/17 Richard
|
|
|
Post by devonjohnsgard on Jan 31, 2017 15:17:45 GMT -5
oooo... very nice... about your meters. Very cool.
Don't know how to feel about Hanna. I hope the meter lasts now.
|
|
|
Post by childofiam on Feb 1, 2017 8:50:11 GMT -5
Ok... so I have been rebuked by a new friend who has been breading for a long time. At any given point he has over a 1000 discus in his shop so I will listen to him because what he told me can be backed up by what I have learned from Carl. Simplicity and Stability is more important than anything else. He has the same water in every tank from his breeding tanks to his grow out tanks and even his planted show tanks are the same. His advice; Save some of the RO waste water to add back into the new RO water to reach a KH of 50 to 60 ppm and don't worry about the pH, the ph will be stable where ever it lands. His water changes a lot like mine so testing is very important. Average TDS will change when water source changes so monitor your wast water TDS and make adjustment to what you add to the new RO water. He breeds in 7.4 to 7.6 water all the time so the fable tell of having a pH in the 6's is just that unless you have wild caught Discus Simplicity - Target your KH of 50 - 60 ppm and your pH will be what it is with stability. He also said to base my water changes on NO3 readings of 10 or signs of stress with the Discus. He does 30% change every three day on average except his spawning tanks and they get 50% daily. It is important to have tall tanks for spawning so not to stress the process. He uses 37 gallon cube tanks for spawning and I just happen to have one. I will be cleaning this tank out today and getting it set up as a spawning tank.
We need to attract more Discus keepers here because the Forum SimplyDiscus is a waste of time if you are not in the clicks. I posted in December, in their Emergency Room thread, about my Discus Dashing with no answer to date and the other day I posted again about the swollen gills and still have not received any answers even though the thread has had many visits. I was asked if I was the guy on Facebook who ask if the guy I purchased my Discus from was a good breeder. What does that question have to do with what I was there for? I was not that guy I replied, so in both cases it was here I got my answers.
Richard
|
|
|
Post by childofiam on Feb 1, 2017 9:34:59 GMT -5
Two things; Hanna has pH probes on back order so it may be a month before I get the replacement probe. and On my RO system I changed the membrane and both filters. I added a micro meter to measure the amount of RO I am producing and another one to meter total gallons going through the Ro system. In doing this I had to rotate the RO line output up to the top so the meter sensor sits level. I am now producing .21 liters a minute, this is 3.33 gallons per hour or 79 gallons per 24 hours. How is this happening? TDS of RO=2 and KH 9 ppm This is very consistent as I make on average 30 gallons in about 8 hours every day since 1/11/17 Richard Carl... I figured this one out. Yesterday I emptied my adjustment tank where my 30 some foot coiled up line heats the incoming water up to 74 degrees before it goes through the RO system. "I have a stick on thermometer on the Micro filter cylinder that reads 74 degrees." I refilled the tank with new unheated RO water and there it was... My production was cut in half! You should try this in testing. I heat the RO water to 89 degrees with two 300 w heaters, as the cold tap water travels through the coiled up 1/4 in line the temp of the tank drops back to about 84 degrees but the first chamber of the RO unit measures 74 degrees consistently unless we have single digit temps out side making the water coming in colder. I took your information about incoming water temps and came up with the idea of the coiled up incoming line but I also added a pump to increase water pressure and with the micro water meter I was able to adjust the pressure to optimize the RO unit out put. This added pressure changed the TDS of the RO water from 7 ppm at 40# with 2 gph production to 2 TDS at 80# and a 3.5 gph production. I have also noticed that when the outside temps where in the 40's and 50's my output goes up. It would be good to see if someone else could come up with the same results as I have. Richard
|
|
|
Post by devonjohnsgard on Feb 1, 2017 14:08:30 GMT -5
Ok... so I have been rebuked by a new friend who has been breading for a long time. At any given point he has over a 1000 discus in his shop so I will listen to him because what he told me can be backed up by what I have learned from Carl. Simplicity and Stability is more important than anything else. He has the same water in every tank from his breeding tanks to his grow out tanks and even his planted show tanks are the same. His advice; Save some of the RO waste water to add back into the new RO water to reach a KH of 50 to 60 ppm and don't worry about the pH, the ph will be stable where ever it lands. His water changes a lot like mine so testing is very important. Average TDS will change when water source changes so monitor your wast water TDS and make adjustment to what you add to the new RO water. He breeds in 7.4 to 7.6 water all the time so the fable tell of having a pH in the 6's is just that unless you have wild caught Discus Simplicity - Target your KH of 50 - 60 ppm and your pH will be what it is with stability. He also said to base my water changes on NO3 readings of 10 or signs of stress with the Discus. He does 30% change every three day on average except his spawning tanks and they get 50% daily. It is important to have tall tanks for spawning so not to stress the process. He uses 37 gallon cube tanks for spawning and I just happen to have one. I will be cleaning this tank out today and getting it set up as a spawning tank. We need to attract more Discus keepers here because the Forum SimplyDiscus is a waste of time if you are not in the clicks. I posted in December, in their Emergency Room thread, about my Discus Dashing with no answer to date and the other day I posted again about the swollen gills and still have not received any answers even though the thread has had many visits. I was asked if I was the guy on Facebook who ask if the guy I purchased my Discus from was a good breeder. What does that question have to do with what I was there for? I was not that guy I replied, so in both cases it was here I got my answers. Richard Yup, smart man. Should be the case for all fish. They adapt, harsher is an unstable pH. Honestly, I've been apart of a lot of forums, they are seem to be clickish and slowing in growth. Seems like far more people interact in Facebook and even YouTube. I wonder how long forums will last.
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Feb 1, 2017 15:04:55 GMT -5
Ok... so I have been rebuked by a new friend who has been breading for a long time. At any given point he has over a 1000 discus in his shop so I will listen to him because what he told me can be backed up by what I have learned from Carl. Simplicity and Stability is more important than anything else. He has the same water in every tank from his breeding tanks to his grow out tanks and even his planted show tanks are the same. I definitely agree I have not tried this, but it makes perfect. Most of the really toxic "stuff" is removed by the carbon block, so I see no problem. I knew a large scale discus breeder in El Monte California. His numbers were almost exactly the same as per pH in particular. He did have a flow through system with gravity feed So many forums whether traditional or the FB variety are all about clicks (which personally do not care for the FB format on many levels, especially the ability of a newbie to just search and find relevant conversations) Carl
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Feb 1, 2017 15:40:14 GMT -5
Carl... I figured this one out. Yesterday I emptied my adjustment tank where my 30 some foot coiled up line heats the incoming water up to 74 degrees before it goes through the RO system. "I have a stick on thermometer on the Micro filter cylinder that reads 74 degrees." I refilled the tank with new unheated RO water and there it was... My production was cut in half! You should try this in testing. I heat the RO water to 89 degrees with two 300 w heaters, as the cold tap water travels through the coiled up 1/4 in line the temp of the tank drops back to about 84 degrees but the first chamber of the RO unit measures 74 degrees consistently unless we have single digit temps out side making the water coming in colder. I took your information about incoming water temps and came up with the idea of the coiled up incoming line but I also added a pump to increase water pressure and with the micro water meter I was able to adjust the pressure to optimize the RO unit out put. This added pressure changed the TDS of the RO water from 7 ppm at 40# with 2 gph production to 2 TDS at 80# and a 3.5 gph production. I have also noticed that when the outside temps where in the 40's and 50's my output goes up. It would be good to see if someone else could come up with the same results as I have. Richard This all makes since based on the optimal operating temperature of your RO system Reference: www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2016/01/use-of-ro-di-softwater-in-aquariums.htmlI never have had the need to do this as where I was making RO, the tap water was generally in this 70-80F range but for maybe a few months (& output did drop too, but since I was using 200 gpd units, this was still not an issue) This reminds me of what I used for clients for a totally different issue, but was related to temperature: I had many clients with aquariums in rooms that would get too hot in the summer, even with air conditioning (of the central air would cool one room better than another); Anyway, I ran the airline in a coil though small bar refrigerators (sometimes including the whole pump). I found I could drop the ambient temperature about 5-6 degrees with an average air pump in a 60 gallon aquarium Carl
|
|
|
Post by childofiam on Feb 3, 2017 10:59:53 GMT -5
I received my pH probe from Hanna. One more thing to add is that the meter needs to be stored standing up because inside the cap is a small cylinder the pH probe slides into and you need to keep Hanna's storage solution in this cylinder or the "Reference Cell" will dry out. As hanna puts it; "The reference cell has a high salt solution. Placing the probe in purified water will cause the salt to diffuse out and the water to go in. Storage solution is not only formulated to maintain the reference salt concentration but also has chemicals to keep bacteria and fungus from growing in the solution. If storage solution is not available then use pH 4 buffer." My meter is back to working like a champ. It was strange not being able to take ORP reading to get my RH factor.
Richard
|
|
|
Post by devonjohnsgard on Feb 3, 2017 12:02:46 GMT -5
You think the same thing should be done to the YSI meter? I would think so. You got it pretty quick for being on back order.
|
|
|
Post by childofiam on Feb 3, 2017 12:48:26 GMT -5
You think the same thing should be done to the YSI meter? I would think so. You got it pretty quick for being on back order. I know... I couldn't believe it when it showed up in my mail box. I would think all pH meters need to be stored in a solution because the reference cell goes from the out side to the inside of the bulb. They say if it dries out you need to soak it for a couple hours. I never did this with the YSI meter so maybe that is what went wrong with it.
|
|
|
Post by devonjohnsgard on Feb 4, 2017 14:08:51 GMT -5
You think the same thing should be done to the YSI meter? I would think so. You got it pretty quick for being on back order. I know... I couldn't believe it when it showed up in my mail box. I would think all pH meters need to be stored in a solution because the reference cell goes from the out side to the inside of the bulb. They say if it dries out you need to soak it for a couple hours. I never did this with the YSI meter so maybe that is what went wrong with it. I'll give this a try and see if there's a difference. We were soaking it in vinegar for 10-20 mins, but never stored it in anything.
|
|
|
Post by childofiam on Feb 4, 2017 18:22:10 GMT -5
I know... I couldn't believe it when it showed up in my mail box. I would think all pH meters need to be stored in a solution because the reference cell goes from the out side to the inside of the bulb. They say if it dries out you need to soak it for a couple hours. I never did this with the YSI meter so maybe that is what went wrong with it. I'll give this a try and see if there's a difference. We were soaking it in vinegar for 10-20 mins, but never stored it in anything. I would think vinegar is too strong of a solution to clean these probs with. If I am going to spend the money on equipment like this I would want to use the cleaning and storage solution developed by Hanna. The Hanna ORP/pH meter I purchased is by far the best I have used and great support to boot. It was a shock to get such fast emails back from them during their work hours. Richard
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Feb 6, 2017 14:39:01 GMT -5
I'll give this a try and see if there's a difference. We were soaking it in vinegar for 10-20 mins, but never stored it in anything. I would think vinegar is too strong of a solution to clean these probs with. If I am going to spend the money on equipment like this I would want to use the cleaning and storage solution developed by Hanna. The Hanna ORP/pH meter I purchased is by far the best I have used and great support to boot. It was a shock to get such fast emails back from them during their work hours. Richard Yes, this may be the problem since Vinegar is a pH 2.5. Maybe Orange juice which has a pH of just over 4, but it has other substances so would probably be a poor idea too. YSI noted to use hydrochloric acid in their pdf on care, but it does not mention storage. The ORP meter I used years back was also by Hanna, but it was more of a monitor that attached to the side of the tank. while it needed maintenance, I do not recall it being problematic at all Carl
|
|
|
Post by childofiam on Feb 9, 2017 9:18:15 GMT -5
I would think vinegar is too strong of a solution to clean these probs with. If I am going to spend the money on equipment like this I would want to use the cleaning and storage solution developed by Hanna. The Hanna ORP/pH meter I purchased is by far the best I have used and great support to boot. It was a shock to get such fast emails back from them during their work hours. Richard Yes, this may be the problem since Vinegar is a pH 2.5. Maybe Orange juice which has a pH of just over 4, but it has other substances so would probably be a poor idea too. YSI noted to use hydrochloric acid in their pdf on care, but it does not mention storage. The ORP meter I used years back was also by Hanna, but it was more of a monitor that attached to the side of the tank. while it needed maintenance, I do not recall it being problematic at all Carl I would use the cleaning solution and storage solution Hanna sells. The probes are identical in design with different software chips. Richard
|
|
|
Post by childofiam on Feb 9, 2017 9:55:35 GMT -5
Updated pictures of my Aquarium/Plant room. This is my desk where I do a lot of work. My 75 planted tank. My 75 BB grow-out tank. My supply shelves. My water making station. Fancy Guppy tank on the bottom where I breed a strain I developed through cross breeding. This is my first spawning tank, it is a Marineland 37 gal. cube tank. Sides and bottom are covered with white cardboard and the front glass is only covered half way for them to feel secure. The water level was lowered so I can start lowering GH for spawning by adding 2 dkh water daily. I found this method less stressful on the Discus. When the tank is full they peek over the cardboard to see what I am doing all the time. I am also in negotiations with my owner to remodel a 12X10 room as the new Aquarium/Plant room, this spring with water source for RO and a sink for cleaning things. I will be able to fit nine 75 gallon grow-out tanks and 12 spawning tanks in the room. All of the grow-tanks would be setup on a single filtering/water changing system and the spawning tanks will be on their own system to. Richard
|
|
|
Post by devonjohnsgard on Feb 9, 2017 14:18:20 GMT -5
So awesome...
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Feb 9, 2017 16:39:16 GMT -5
Very professional looking operation!
Wish you lived closer to visit!
Car
|
|
|
Post by childofiam on Feb 10, 2017 7:35:29 GMT -5
Very professional looking operation! Wish you lived closer to visit! Car Maybe one day soon I will fly out to meet you all.... Richard
|
|
|
Post by childofiam on Feb 15, 2017 11:00:03 GMT -5
I just purchased this proven pair of Cherckerboard Pigeons snakeskin Discus. Richard
|
|
|
Post by devonjohnsgard on Feb 15, 2017 13:34:58 GMT -5
I just purchased this proven pair of Cherckerboard Pigeons snakeskin Discus. View AttachmentRichard Whatca tryin to do to me Richard?!
|
|