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Post by troybtj on Nov 19, 2015 16:57:40 GMT -5
Decided to try recharging purigen instead of just using a new packet. All has been stable with aquarium, though slightly (maybe more) overpopulated.
I have two filters running, and cleaned the one filter and changed out the purigen for a recharged pack.
A day later, my ammonia alert was no longer yellow. Total ammonia is 5ppm (NH3/NH4), and hasn't gone down in two days.
I followed the seachem directions for recharging, soak in bleach/water overnight, rinse well, soak in a lot of prime with water overnight, and rinse.
There was no detectable bleach or chlorine odor on the recharged Purigen after I left it in a sealed container overnight, but it did smell like Prime...
Has anybody else seen this problem, or is the ammonia bump a coincidence now that about half the baby mollies are a bit over half an inch long.
Haven't had ammonia/nitrite/nitrate issues since the original cycle setup.
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Post by troybtj on Nov 19, 2015 16:58:08 GMT -5
<hit quote instead of edit....>
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Nov 19, 2015 18:12:57 GMT -5
Weird.
I spoke to Carl real quick and he said he heard of this, but never had it happen to him. By change, do you have fresh purigen you could try?
Sorry for the hassle.
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Post by Carl on Nov 19, 2015 18:38:06 GMT -5
I have only heard or seen small bumps in ammonia, not 0 to 5 ppm (more like 0 to .5 ppm)
From reading I cannot see that you are doing anything wrong.
Maybe trying some of this Purigen in a plain tank with nothing but de-chlorinated water.
One thought that comes to mind is if the water used in the soak and/or rinse needs to be chloramine free as chloramines have ammonia. Also sometimes using more acidic water in the soak and alkaline water in the rinse can improve results
Carl
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Post by troybtj on Nov 19, 2015 18:44:54 GMT -5
I have a few packets of new Purigen, I'll swap out for one of those and see if the Ammonia drops.
No chloramines in the water here, so I'm really confused how Ammonia (NH3/NH4) can be a result of Bleach (NaClO), since the Nitrogen and Hydrogen molecules don't exist in bleach.
I'll update after using a new purigen packet.
--ETA:
The ammonia alert badge is at the lightest blue (0.05ppm), while the standard ammonia kit gives the rather high number. Fish aren't showing any signs of stress.
Trying to net out all the sale size Mollies is going to be a pain, I gotta hurry up and find a place for a bigger tank.
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Post by mmfed01 on Nov 20, 2015 0:07:15 GMT -5
I had the same problem about 6 years ago. I did everything you did as well as Carl's suggestions and still had a crash. I used their mesh resealable bag so I had the Purigen free floating in a glass jar for regeneration and post Prime soaking. I remember there being quite a few people who shared the same problem when I researched it online. Ironically Seachem's AMGUARD is a handy thing to have in the toolbox for unexpected emergencies. I don't regenerate anymore, as I'm looking to use Purigen as an occasional maintenance tool, and leave the bulk of the work on good plants, filtration, UV and Sand Filters. It's a goal at least.. Mike
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Post by Carl on Nov 20, 2015 10:45:38 GMT -5
I have a few packets of new Purigen, I'll swap out for one of those and see if the Ammonia drops. No chloramines in the water here, so I'm really confused how Ammonia (NH3/NH4) can be a result of Bleach (NaClO), since the Nitrogen and Hydrogen molecules don't exist in bleach. That is exactly why I am confused too. .05 ammonia is nothing to worry about, especially since this test measures only toxic ammonia NH3 Carl
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Post by Carl on Nov 20, 2015 10:53:18 GMT -5
I had the same problem about 6 years ago. I did everything you did as well as Carl's suggestions and still had a crash. I used their mesh resealable bag so I had the Purigen free floating in a glass jar for regeneration and post Prime soaking. I remember there being quite a few people who shared the same problem when I researched it online. Ironically Seachem's AMGUARD is a handy thing to have in the toolbox for unexpected emergencies. I don't regenerate anymore, as I'm looking to use Purigen as an occasional maintenance tool, and leave the bulk of the work on good plants, filtration, UV and Sand Filters. It's a goal at least.. Mike I agree as to using Purigen as an occasional maintenance tool. Clarifying this more, I used it in many of my clients aquariums on a regular basis, however it was only used in the aquariums "part time" Because of this I only regenerated Purigen about 10% of the time, it simply was not worth my time. As for Amguard, while a newer product, with normal maintenance procedures, this would not be something I would need. Generally Prime worked good for emergencies along with immediate response to why the ammonia was high in the first place. Carl
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Post by Carl on Nov 20, 2015 11:21:15 GMT -5
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Post by troybtj on Nov 20, 2015 15:23:12 GMT -5
My best guess is the no-name bleach I used has some sort of additive that keeps the NaCl from precipitating out of the solution once exposed to oxygen. That, along with some complex O-Chem with Prime somehow creates ammonia, that's my best guess after going through the published chemicals.
They specifically state to use unscented, non "splash-free", plain bleach for the recharge, maybe it's only certain brands which explains the spotty results.
I'll just be buying more Purigen packets, I have too much driftwood in the tank that keeps eating my KH and lowering pH.
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Post by troybtj on Nov 21, 2015 16:03:17 GMT -5
Back to normal now with new purigen and a water change. The cool thing is that the Water Sprite (Ceratopteris thalictroides) plants each grew about 6" in just a few days of slightly elevated ammonia. Now I'll have a lot more clippings to give away.
I usually give them to the LFS to sell, since it's about the easiest thing to have grow.
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Post by mmfed01 on Nov 21, 2015 18:51:38 GMT -5
I'm doing some experiments on my 65 gallon goldfish tank. I've got some Dwarf Water Lettuce, Frogbit and Hyancinth in the tank, yanked the Purigen and I'm monitoring my levels...
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Post by troybtj on Nov 24, 2015 13:01:03 GMT -5
There was purigen running the whole time, just the week with the recharged purigen and the higher ammonia over doubled the growth of the faster growing plant, could be because it wasn't working, but I didn't have yellow water from the driftwood.
I also have a LOT of light on the tank, 2 20 gallon lights, one Marineland overhead for 20-30 gallon tanks, and a "Glo Fish" clip on front 20" LED strip of blue/white meant for 20-40 gallon tanks. On a 10 gallon. Probably the same PUR as a a mini TMC cube from AAP, but it's still very visible. For reference, shutter is 1/60th second in a dim area at f/2.8 with a camera, and 1/250th sec in a well lit area at f/2.8.
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Post by Carl on Nov 25, 2015 12:41:59 GMT -5
There was purigen running the whole time, just the week with the recharged purigen and the higher ammonia over doubled the growth of the faster growing plant, could be because it wasn't working, but I didn't have yellow water from the driftwood. This is interesting! For clarification, you're saying the driftwood normally would yellow the water without Purigen, but during this time with the re-charged Purigen, the tank stayed clear while the plant growth increased greatly? Carl
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Post by troybtj on Nov 25, 2015 21:55:30 GMT -5
There was purigen running the whole time, just the week with the recharged purigen and the higher ammonia over doubled the growth of the faster growing plant, could be because it wasn't working, but I didn't have yellow water from the driftwood. This is interesting! For clarification, you're saying the driftwood normally would yellow the water without Purigen, but during this time with the re-charged Purigen, the tank stayed clear while the plant growth increased greatly? Carl Yes, it was leaking ammonia, which fertilizes the floating plants well. It was still absorbing the tannins, though, just leeching ammonia at the same time. It turned half dark in the week it was in as well, leading me to believe the bleach I used was wrong. I suppose I can do a full scientific workup on it with the bleach and prime recharge and measuring the ammonia in RODI water after it sits a day if that would help people.
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Post by Carl on Nov 26, 2015 11:06:23 GMT -5
Yes, it was leaking ammonia, which fertilizes the floating plants well. It was still absorbing the tannins, though, just leeching ammonia at the same time. It turned half dark in the week it was in as well, leading me to believe the bleach I used was wrong. I suppose I can do a full scientific workup on it with the bleach and prime recharge and measuring the ammonia in RODI water after it sits a day if that would help people. Yes, I think this would be helpful! Carl
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Post by cptcaveman on May 22, 2016 17:17:31 GMT -5
If I remove Purgien from my filter will the tank crash/spike?
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Post by troybtj on May 22, 2016 17:31:41 GMT -5
No, purigen only removes stuff charcoal wont, which lowers the work your good bacteria have to do.
I've pulled mine several times with no ill effects.
As for this thread, I've verified with 100% certainty that the old bleach (maybe a decade?) was causing the ammonia spike. New ammonia recharging has never caused one after recharging.
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Post by cptcaveman on May 22, 2016 18:33:45 GMT -5
Nice to know. I'm scared to recharge it and too cheap to buy a new one. I've had it in for about 6 months so I assume it's about shot.
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Post by troybtj on May 22, 2016 18:46:17 GMT -5
They turn really dark brown when "full". Just let it sit in fresh bleach for a day, then rinse with freshwater a couple times, letting it sit for a few hours once, then rinse it out in tap water, and let it sit in Prime overnight as directed and it is good to go! It is typically back to new color within about 30 minutes of putting it into the bleach solution, so if it doesn't change that soon, your bleach is old/bad. The additional soaking is to get all the grime out of the "center" of the purigen beads, rather than just the surface. Other than the bad bleach issue above, I haven't had any problems with it, but it does last a bit less each time I recharge it. Far better than having yellow water and non-perfect clarity.
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