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Post by tropicalwannabe on Feb 9, 2015 19:01:32 GMT -5
Being the 'good father' that I think I am,... no seriously I'm a good dad - stop laughing!
I want the best for my son's newest wallet draining venture. A reef tank.
He had a 24 gallon 'all in one tank' and had some decent success regardless of what the PetCo folks told him to do. Even I know you don't top off your tank with tap water.
Avoiding PetCo, as much as possible, I want to make sure he does things right. Or better than last time. With a 90 gallon tank, it's really stupid to buy saltwater from the store, when you can make it yourself. Now, here comes the question:
How many 'stages' does an RO unit have to have to make good quality (Reef) water? And, adding a DI stage to remove every last bit of undesirables (as he's been told by - well it's a long list) all that necessary? Were not topping off automotive batteries here! I emphasize 'reef' water as this is the direction he's planning to go with. The salt mix he's using replaces all the proper minerals that an RO unit removes. (and apparently adds others necessary for a reef setup)
We are not in any real rush, as were still in the 'collecting' phase. I always say, research first - know what your doing. Acquire your tools. Double check your research. Complete your mission. (Oh my lord, he listened!)
Thanks for your help,
Paul
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2015 9:37:03 GMT -5
Greetings Paul,
I am not a salt water expert.....but home RO units can take forever to make good RO water......and then the filters needs to be replaced....etc...etc.
My son had a 40 gallon salt water and gave up on his RO unit......He no longer has the salt water tank (replaced that with a 60 gallon planted freshwater....Good thing...as "Grandmama" can help take care of that).
Do you have a Culligan's near you? or something like that? I buy water at 25 cents a gallon (usually from Peacock - a regional company in Ohio)- and even used a new source last night just to fill one five gallon jug (water tested perfect - so I will use that source again sometime... a Car Wash! that is closer to my home, too). Buying your water at 25 cents a gallon and adding the salt mix will be more economical than trying to do your own RO water.
Judy
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Feb 10, 2015 10:06:52 GMT -5
I would only consider RO water if the water from my tap is really high in GH, KH, or other crazy water condition. RO units are nice, but not always needed. What are your parameters? Any other minerals in high amounts from the tap, like iron?
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Post by Carl on Feb 10, 2015 10:37:27 GMT -5
If this is s fish only or FOWLR saltwater aquarium, tap water is OK, hover for a reef aquarium I would recommend RO or maybe DI water. A good RO or DI unit can make plenty of water quickly enough for the average aquarium keeper. Even our basic 50 gallon per day units make more than enough (I have mostly used 200 gpd units) Now what I believe is the main question here, whether a DI unit is needed over a RO unit. A RO units removes everything you would not want in your Reef tank, in particular nitrates and phosphates. The DI unit which would then follow the RO process simply does what the name implies: "de-ionizes". this is why RO water can still have a higher pH while DI water is pH neutral. This said, these ions cause absolutely no issues in a Reef aquarium and from my experience offers no further advantage other than emptying your pocket book From my Aquarium Answers Article that address this question: "*DI Unit; which stand for "De-Ionized". Most commercially available DI units are simply a RO unit with an additional DI canister/chamber following the RO membrane (API makes a basic DI only unit though). This chamber utilizes resins that further remove TDS from water. With this system, you can achieve 0 mineral cations and a TDS of 0 after starting with tap water over 250 TDS, while this same tap water run through a RO only unit would generally result in about 7 TDS.
For my purposes I found that a RO only unit was/is more than adequate, however if you are making water for extremely sensitive purposes (such as a car battery), a DI/RO unit may be the better choice for you over a RO only unit. The reason is much of what the additional DI chamber removes is mineral cations (electrolytes), which is why DI water is better for a car battery, but these few mineral cations missed by RO only units are not a problem for any freshwater or saltwater aquarium (unless run off from a Home/Office Water Softener) and in fact these are generally beneficial (unless run off from a Home/Office Water Softener). As well the operating costs of DI chambers are very high as I have had to replace the resins in these chambers as frequently as once per week with some units under high use.
The bottom line is to NOT believe the hype some sellers of Four Stage RO/DI units put forth and save your money (both initially and ongoing) and purchase a RO only Water systems. The only reason to purchase a unit that also features de-ionization is if you want to run your system directly off from a home or office water softener that uses sodium chloride or potassium chloride, since these systems radically alter the mineral ions in ways detrimental to fish and invertebrates (reference section about use of home water softeners later in this article). Even then, plumbing your RO system to your tap/well water source prior to entering the water softener may save you a lot of money over time!"Reference www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2006/12/how-do-fish-drink.html#reverse_osmosisProduct Resource (& information) www.americanaquariumproducts.com/ReverseOsmosisSystem.htmlIf you are going to need more than 10 gallons per week, the RO unit will pay for itself costing only pennies per gallon compared to much more buying water Carl
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Post by tropicalwannabe on Feb 14, 2015 15:26:21 GMT -5
I would only consider RO water if the water from my tap is really high in GH, KH, or other crazy water condition. RO units are nice, but not always needed. What are your parameters? Any other minerals in high amounts from the tap, like iron? My son lives across town from me, so his numbers I'm sure are going to be different. Here, at my house straight from the tap is what I get: GH (6 drops) or 107.4 ppm GH/KH KH (4 drops) or 4 degrees dKH Using API test kit. Currently I'm unable to test for iron. I'm convinced a DI attachment isn't necessary for his setup (thanks Carl). In our local area, it's quite hard to find those corals that require extremely perfect water, and out of his wallet's range, without a drive to the coast. However, I am still a bit confused on the number of 'stages' necessary. I've seen 5 stage RO units that didn't even have a DI chamber. 5 stages, really? Thanks again for ALL your help. Paul
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Post by angelminx on Feb 14, 2015 16:21:16 GMT -5
Hi Tropicalwannabe,
I got a Seachem Iron test kit about a year ago (I couldn't find an expiration date on it, so I wrote down the date I received it). I last "used" it at the end of December, and the powdered reagent (it comes in a white plastic "jar" with a screw on lid--which I always keep tight) was clumped together and orange-yellow. It should be light yellow and fine/powdery...and was the last time I had used it (May 24th). [Any suggestions on keeping it fresh, Carl?] I tried testing with it, even though the reagent was "off", and it immediately turned the test water orange (it's supposed to take a bit for any color to develop), but I continued the test anyway (following the recommended procedure). The color that (should) develop is a shade of pink...it stayed orange.
I'm going to have to get a new kit, but am waiting a while since I know what the iron levels tend to be in my tank. If you use Seachem's kit for determining iron levels in a planted tank you should test within 30 minutes of dosing with Seachem's Iron Supplement. BTW, Seachem's Iron Supplement is not chelated.
Angelminx
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Post by Carl on Feb 14, 2015 17:09:20 GMT -5
It seems moisture somehow found its way into the powder. You could try a Desiccant if you could find one that will fit.
Carl
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Post by angelminx on Feb 14, 2015 18:00:02 GMT -5
Speaking of moisture "finding its way in"...I've got some "made-from-scratch" (Gordo's Frijoles con queso...for those of you who don't know, Gordo was--?is--a comic strip in the Sunday Funnies that was popular when I lived in San Diego) refried beans cooking on the stove. I just went in to add the salt, and I was short what was needed, so I opened a brand new (picked it up in the beginning of January) package of Morton's Salt: it was all damp and clumped together! Any idea what to do about this with out tearing the carton apart? I did manage to get what I needed out of the container, but it took a while.
Angelminx
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