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Post by nichole on Oct 20, 2014 1:57:44 GMT -5
Hi all, I sure hope someone can help recognize what this is, though honestly I've just about given up. It seems to be a great mystery and I'm feeling rather desperate. First: It's one betta in a barebottom QT tank by himself. 2.5 gallons. Sponge filter. Heater at 77. Ammonia: 0 Nitrite: 0 Nitrate: 10. Gh- sorry, don't remember exactly, it's on the lower end of slightly hard. Ph: 8. Water change schedule: depends on what medicine regime I'm trying; either 90% once per week or 20% once per day. September 27 <img style="max-width:100%;" alt="" src=" "> October 2 October 19 It started as a blue/silver streak in the middle of his fin 2 1/2 months ago. Treatments I've tried (listed in order): Paraguard Kanaplex 1 tsp AQ salt per gal Kanaplex Furan-2 3 tsp AQ salt per gal Paraguard (stopped on 10/9) 3 tsp salt per gal (eventually lowered to about 1 tsp per gal) Both above in tank One hour baths consisting of ciprofloxacin at double strength (due to high ph water), 3 tsp salt per gal, double strength methylene blue
I did this until 10/16. Throughout, his activity level and appetite was completely normal. Until 10/13- he began hiding in a corner of the tank on the bottom, not active. Appetite still good though. On 10/16, I added metronidazole to the tank and still gave the baths listed above. Since adding the metro, his activity level has gotten much better. A good thing? Maybe it is anaerobic? But bacteria still growing.
Today: I stopped the cipro/methylene blue baths- that's what I've been doing the longest and it just isn't working. New treatment as of today: In tank 1 tsp salt per gal Metro Furan-2 Paraguard
Can someone help? I'm afraid I'm going to have to euthanize him soon because it's starting to necrotize his body.
EDIT: I also forgot to mention that I've done peroxide swabs 3 times in the last 2 weeks. Dark blue stuff actually rubs off on the q-tip and the towel he lays on. And the discolored area is raised and puffy. But not fluffy like columnaris, it is smooth. All medicine treatments were done for a full course.
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Oct 20, 2014 8:48:44 GMT -5
First off. Welcome to the forum. Nice to have you here! Talking water first. Before medications. Here are the things I noticed that should be addressed before treatment. If a fish is in not optimal waters, treatments could be not as successful. I would turn down temp to 75 degrees. This can help beat off infections "Lower your temperature; under 75 F (24 C) (only during treatment)." americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.htmlI usually don't like seeing pH at 8.0 "While on the other side of the equation most non-toxic ammonium (NH4) converts to toxic ammonia (NH3) at a pH of 8.0." It little reading on aquarium chemistry. americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumKH.htmlI would try not doing close to 100% water changes. If you are trying to manage Ammonia and Nitrites, try these water change methods. "4.0 or higher; up to 50% per day 2.0- 4.0; up to 50% every other day or 25%- 50% per day 1.0- 2.0; 25% every other day under 1.0; 10-20% every other day (Please note that ammonia levels fluctuating from .25 to .50 are quite common, especially with higher bio loads, or during treatments. Major actions to correct ammonia levels under .50 ppm should not be taken; rather increased monitoring, use of Prime or Amquel Plus, and additional small water changes is generally what is called for with ammonia levels under .50 ppm)" americanaquariumproducts.com/Nitrogen_Cycle.html#highammonia If all this in check, I would try treatment from this article Betta Fin Rot www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2011/06/betta-fin-rot.htmlWelcome again. Hope we can help you out here and you have some experience to share with the group too
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Post by Carl on Oct 20, 2014 8:57:28 GMT -5
Sorry to read about your Bettas difficulties. Your water conditions look relatively good too (but for maybe pH and unknown GH). While only a lab test can confirm for sure, this looks to be a classic case of Columnairs, which is can be very difficult to treat, even with good water conditions.. A few points to your well documented regimen do stand out: *Kanaplex/Kanamycin is definitely more effective when treated with Nitrofurazone, and often when treated by itself, it can loose potency, even when later treated with Nitrofurazon (Furan 2), but not always. *Metronidazole is a medication that is very unlikely to be effective for such an external infection (better for internal infections or external parasite issues). *While Baths are definitely normally called for as well as salt (which you appear to have done both), so are the constant addition of mineral cations one of the more important aspects of treatment. From our Article "Columnaris Treatment/Prevention" "With Columnaris, it is important to learn the effect stress has in outbreaks as well as the importance positive mineral ions and the role these cations play in adhesion of Columnaris by reducing surface potential and repulsive forces.". Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.htmlProduct Resource: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/MedicatedWonderShell.html*Since your treatment regimen has not worked, this could also mean either the disease is either resitant to the medications or while it may look like columnaris, it is not. Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Medication.html#change_medYou might consider swabs with much stronger Potassium Permanganate, which has worked for me on occasion when everything else was done correct, but there was no response Product Resource: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Waterconditioner.html#permanganateAlso totally switching to a very different medications such as Tetracycline or Erythromycin may be called for *Do not go over board with water changes, too often or large can be stress triggers for Columnaris Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Disease.html*While your Betta does not appear old, age and genetics play a very big role in treatment effectiveness. If either are the case, the best course of action is to cease treatment with strong meds and baths, then go with the best water conditions possible (again including mineral Cations). Medicated Wonder Shells would be a good mild treatment for this course of action Carl
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 9:07:54 GMT -5
Hi Nichole,
Wow - you sure have tried everything. The fish is getting worse - medications are not helping. Some fish can not tolerate harsh medicines.
Since the fish is still eating, this is what I would do -- and have done - with fish with similar illness: 1. Remove all of the medicine (Polyfilters are great for this -- plus water changes) 2. Treat with Melefix (in the morning) and Pimafix (at night). I found that dosing with these twelve hours apart is less stressful for the fish. I think you can find online ways to make the dose suitable for Bettas/small tank (as Bettafix is only Melafix). 3. Dry torn fin with paper toweling or Q-tip and apply Bio-Bandage (by Hikari). 4. Keep fish comfortable -- and euthanize with clove oil when it stops eating. You have done everything to try to save this fish.
Folks on this Forum know this is what I would do (smile).
Hikari Bio-Bandage is a treatment I am never without. I always try it first with Melafix and Pimafix at the first sight of damaged fins, external wounds, and external bacteria patches.
I actually did some Internet searches on Betta fish and salt the other day. Some Betta are less tolerant for salt, so maybe reduce the amount for the duration of treatment.
Judy D.
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Post by Carl on Oct 20, 2014 9:36:48 GMT -5
Thank you for your input Judy I do need to note a few points that are important: (1) When medications are not working, it is rarely because they are too harsh, rather that either the medications are simply incorrect or the pathogen is resistant, the fish has genetic issues, or water parameters are over riding any possible effectiveness Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Medication.html(2) While Melafix, Pimafix and Hikari Bio Bandage are all good products (and may be worth trying), by and large these are first response treatment, not treatments for advanced infections. A key is that Hikari Bio Bandage main ingredient; Neomycin, is a gram positive medication best used internally or for first response minor wounds or similar The FACTS are that the likely causes of fin rot of this type are Columnaris, Aeromonas, or Pseudomonas, all of which will not respond to Neopmycin. Now if this is some sort of Strep. infection, then a stronger gram positive medication as I suggested would be called for Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.htmlThe above said, this suggestion is definitely worth trying : Product Resource: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Waterconditioner.html#biobandage(3) Be careful about recommending "The Poly Pad" when Columnaris is the likely diagnosis, especially since lack of mineral Cations may be one of the main issues From "Aquarium Redox Article: "Addition of positive mineral ions in between water changes, especially during times of stress or high bio loads can increase the Redox Reduction to counter oxidative affects on fish. Lack of positive mineral ions during stress can be a factor in a Columnaris outbreak or failure of treatment. Use of products that can further degrade Redox Balance can be even more detrimental to treatment or prevention of Columnaris. Examples include "The Poly Pad", "Chemi-Pure", and even Purigen."Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Redox_Potential.html(4) I have found that a correctly applied salt treatment for Bettas is not an issue. It may not help, but when not over done is not an issue (related to the Univ. of AL study) Carl
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 10:03:03 GMT -5
Thanks Carl,
I don't think Poly-filters remove minerals....Poly-filters do remove phosphates, ammonia, medications. But, as you suggest, it is good to use Wonder shells. I like adding pieces of Wonder Shells -- makes them blend in better with the gravel.
Poly-filters remove:
Harmful Organics Toxic Ammonia and Nitrite Heavy Metals All Forms of Phosphate Medications after Treatment
I am pretty sure it says right on the package it doesn't remove trace minerals.
I won't go into all of the "bad" information I found on using salt with Betta fish (smile)....but it is "out there".....
My suggestions for Nichole were mainly to suggest it is probably too late for any other medication to work (so sad). Now she knows -- thanks to you and Devon which medications to use first. Using the wrong medications first can only allow the disease get worse (as she has discovered)- to the point where it is too late. I did use the wrong medication for my Goyder River rainbow - based on incorrect information from API (Erythromycin does NOT treat Columnaris/mouth rot -- the information on the API box is WRONG. Hmmm.. I should write to them about that, too). The Goyder River was treated with Erythromycin BEFORE I did research on your site.....and it was the Erythromycin that "killed" the bio filter.
I view each fish loss as a learning experience. I am hopeful Nichole will, too. She has learned a lot from this Betta.
Cheers,
Judy
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Post by Carl on Oct 20, 2014 10:19:26 GMT -5
Maybe you are confusing poly fiber pads with the "The Poly Pad"? The Poly Pad does in fact affect mineral Cations and thus Redox along with their other product. Please note that Redox can be effected by removing of positive mineral ions while not the mineral itself From Redox article: "Think of it this way; a battery "works" only when a positive and a negative electrode are present to maintain an electrical current. When the positive plates become exhausted, the battery is no longer functional, even though the metal plates and other "ingredients" for the battery are still present."Also Reference: www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/05/aquarium-filter-media.htmlGood example of how much anecdotal bull is out their on the internet. I can point to case after case about misinformation that is cut and paste with no science based fact to support statements; from the so-called Melafix Dangers, UV Sterilizer use, to use of Raw Shrimp for cycling. Remember, science is based on controls, along with replicating exact conditions than altering the variable exactly. With any problems with salt, I would venture the person used too much, the fish was already going to fie or many more possible scenarios. For me I will go with the controlled studies I have done as well as aqua culture research I have read with the use of salt Good point Good point, but we also need to make sure we make science based observations, as often anecdotal observations are incorrect Carl
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Oct 20, 2014 10:34:12 GMT -5
Woah... Turned into a full blown conversion on this one. Great points guys. Good back and forth.
I will restate one point as well. It was kinda covered but not strongly reinforced.
The fact that the betta is eating is great! This is number one, cause if he is not eating and behavior is not normal, there should be more concern about him not making it. Being that his behavior is normal right now, there can be hope for recovery!
Looks like you have some great suggestions to try out!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 12:27:55 GMT -5
Yeah Devon! Yes, Nichole.... There is hope.... but I still think it is a good idea to make sure ALL medications are removed before dosing with yet another medicine. Try just the Kanamycin and Furan2 together as Carl suggested. My reasons for not recommending these are personal.....and not worth mentioning all right now. Nichole, I would definitely add a small piece of Wonder Shell. Your local pet store may have a large one. Just break off a small piece. I have only been using them a short time -- bought them from AAP (lined to this forum). Best wishes to you and your Betta. Once the fin rot gets to the body, as in the case of your Betta, it does get more difficult to cure. Since the body is also swollen at that area, there may also be internal infection now. Yes, Carl knows the science... I am just a "fish whisperer" (laugh out loud). For Carl: the Poly-Filter package has right on it: Will Not Soften Water or Remove Trace Minerals. Poly-Filters may be a different product than Poly-Pad? Here is the link to manufacturer: www.polybiomarine.com/There is a video on that page on more uses. Cheers, Judy
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Post by Carl on Oct 20, 2014 12:41:49 GMT -5
Yes Judy I am aware of what they say, but I think you are still missing the difference between a positively charged mineral ion (Cation) and the mineral itself, as I am not saying they are incorrect as per the trace minerals themselves, only the Cations which are SO ESSENTIAL to defeating Columnaris. What happens is this product will increase the oxidation side of the equation by removing positive reducers. If you are a fish keeper with an ORP meter, you may notice a upward swing and not care, since many old school fish keeping method suggest higher Redox reading over what modern science has now shown to be not so healthy. I am not necessarily knocking this product (although I feel it is over rated), just pointing out the facts of Redox as it pertains to this product. A better choice would be a good quality carbon, not the Poly Pad, not Chemi-Pure, not even Purigen! PLEASE read the Redox article, I know it is not the easiest read, but we actually had this article re-written a couple years ago by a newer aquarium keeper that was having trouble understanding the article. She stated after the re-write that also took re-reading that is was now clear to her. www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Redox_Potential.htmlThe Chemistry article also goes into this subject as well www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumKH.htmlAlso please read the Aquarium Answers post I provided too. Carl
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Post by nichole on Oct 20, 2014 16:34:29 GMT -5
Thank you to everyone for the detailed answers and support. I wish I had known about this forum awhile ago! There was so much information, I had to take notes! If I forget to address something important that was mentioned, please don't hesitate to remind me. Because it seems important, and because the last time I tested gh and ph were months ago on my main tanks, I broke out my test kit. In my betta's tank (hencefoth referred to as Hébert): gh 160; kh 90; ph 8.2 A note on ph and the water I use: My tap water is liquid rock, so I use 50% tap and 50% RO in all my tanks. The above gh/kh numbers are from this 50/50 combo. According to my records, before I began using RO, my main tanks were gh 360 and kh 230. Tap water comes out of the faucet at ph 8.2. Months ago, I wanted to lower my ph, and so did experiments to see how much RO it would take. I went all the way to 15% tap/ 85% RO and never got below a ph of 8. My main tanks remain at a ph of 8, even though they have 50% RO, drfiftwood, live plants, Indian almond leaves and a layer of peat beneath the substrate. So, to Devon, I would love to have a lower ph, but I have given up on it because I don't want to use additives that could make it fluctuate- even peat in the filter worries me, but I doubt my kh would allow the ph to budge, anyways. My kh is solid as a rock- pun intended. Temp lowered to 75: done. WCs at 50% every other day: will do. Hébert was not fully grown when I got him and I've had for only five months, so he's young. Forgot to mention, if it matters, there's an Indian almond leaf in his tank. On the possibility of columnaris: A bit of history is needed here. 5 months ago both my main tanks got columnaris because I was an idiot and didn't QT a new betta before adding him to the 10 gallon. (Yes, I know better know!) The carrier betta's symptoms: his fins and body were quickly overtaken by a gray color- not like what Hébert has. This was a dull, flat gray. There were no upraised lesions. All of his fins became shredded looking at the ends- not just a chunk like Hébert's. At the end he could no longer swim. It struck quick- he went form seeming healthy to dead in 24 hours. One oto and a kuhli loach got it- they exhibited the classic fluffy white near the top of the head. Both died- once the fluff fell off, I could see a gaping hole in their heads.. My other betta got it (not Hébert)- he had a fluffy spot near the top of his head, and fins shredded like the carrier betta. I treated him with the Kanaplex/Furan 2, double strength meth blue baths and salt treament from Carl's article on columnaris. It had no effect. I managed to cure him with with the cipro/meth blue/salt baths described in my above post. All has been well in the tanks since. Hébert never had any contact with anything from those tanks- until 3 months ago- my daughter thought it would be nice to give Hébert some frogbit from one of the main tanks. (Yes, I considered selling her to gypsies ) A week later, the blue streak showed up. Despite the timing, I did not think it was the columnaris because of the very different symptoms. So, either it is not columnaris, or it is a highly adaptive strain that had resistance to Kanaplex/Furan 2 and developed resistance to the cipro after one treatment- scary. Cations: I had read (kinda) this article awhile ago, and I have to admit that when I read science stuff my eyes glaze over and my brain starts making a sound like the teacher in Peanuts: wah wah wah wah... I did just try to reread it. Previously I did not think wondershells (and such) good my purposes because of my gh. I see now that that was incorrect, yes? And, despite my current gh, the RO may make the situation worse, yes? And the fact that Hébert has no lights but those in the house is bad, too? Carl, can I ask you to briefly tell a science dummy what I ought to do in my situation to help redox balance? Add wondershells? Add light with red in the sprectrum? I'm afraid a decent UV sterilizer is out of my budget at the moment. I will turn the airflow up on the sponge filter, but I can't do too much since this is a betta. Other possible treatments: I did not realize Jungle water clear was potassium permanganate. I will try it, but I don't know if I'll be able to get some in time since I'll have to order it, I think. Can I just use bleach? Ha, ha! (That was a joke, I swear.) Judy, thank you for telling me about the bio-bandage- I did not know about that product and it sounds very useful. In this case, though, unless I am forced to stop all meds, I think I need something stronger. So, it sounds like what I'm doing now is not going to help. I can stop the metro now, but I have to do 3 more days (including today) of the Furan. Since he is still holding up pretty well, I'm not ready to give up on meds and/or baths. I am at a loss as to what next. Work on redox, yes. Devon, thank you for the note of hope. He is still a little piggy and he's not clamped at all, so that is good.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 17:08:53 GMT -5
Hi Nichole,
I forgot to welcome you. Glad you found this forum! There is so much bad information out there. Answers here are very good and thorough. I have learned soooooo much here. I have opened old threads and read them.
I am glad you also tried Hydrogen Peroxide. I have a Goyder River rainbow that took a nose dive off the top of my 75 gallon (while I was treating his side with Bio Bandage). His mouth got injured - and now has mild mouth rot. I am treating that with Hydrogen Peroxide one day -- then Bio-Bandage the next. Not really sure which is helping more (hence trying both). As Carl wrote, the Neomycin in Bio-Bandage isn't all that helpful -- but the Methylene Blue portion is. I actually got the idea to use the Bio Bandage for mild cases by reading Carl's site. I prevented two cases of Columnaris from getting worse just by using Bio Bandage. Unfortunately, I did lose a new Guinea Rainbow to the bacteria (my fault though as the fish was allergic to Sulfa Medicines-- the only option I could get locally....Lesson learned).
Keep up posted.... I did have to smile when I read your latest post.... I have to read the science over and over and over again. I have landed on Carl's site many times when searching treatments for fish illness (Carl's site saved my fish twice - back in 2011 and recently)... The absolute BEST info there in online (better than in books, too -- since my books are all dated).
Saying a little prayer now for Hébert - especially since I know his name (smile).
Judy D.
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Post by Carl on Oct 20, 2014 18:01:21 GMT -5
This may be a large part of the problem, since using RO water adds a new layer of chemistry that needs to be addressed, namely adding back in essential minerals and mineral Cations. I have seen this issue quite often with bettas in particular where RO water is used, without consideration of these essential minerals both initially with products such as Replenish, RO Right and more. Wonder Shells can help with maintenance of the Cations. It is noteworthy that Columnaris thrives in what MANY consider "good" water conditions, but in reality there are stressors such as missing Cations (among others) While this is only an observation, part of your success may be from the use of Ciprofloxacin, which is a newer generation antibiotic, with proven Columnaris effectiveness. The only problem it is difficult to get in quantities that most aquarium keepers can use. Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html#treatment1Outside of a UV Sterilizer, the Wonder Shell would be helpful, if only broken into smaller fragments just so that you can keep a steady supply of Cations. The Medicated Version is a good follow up treatment that is safe for most fish since the medication levels are low and the product buffers the medications there in. Carl
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Oct 21, 2014 0:52:48 GMT -5
So, here are all of my thoughts after reading through this thread. Yes, we are taking mineral cations (basically, the stuff the electrical charges the water), which are stripped out of aquariums by many tank owners. We're not just talking minerals or GH, it's the cations. The RO water does need to be replenished of the mineral cations, so it could make the issue worse, even though you are trying to make better water. Here's help with RO water: www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2006/12/how-do-fish-drink.htmlFor treatments, I would stick to the medically proven treatments, but it sounds like there is good information backing up each medication recommended here. Until the water is figured out, you would be just treating to battle the poor water. With the KH (90) you have, your pH should naturally be coming down. I believe the reason it's not is because of too many water changes. There is not enough time to allow for the pH to come down. Spacing water changes longest amount of time apart, with keeping proper parameters with help. Allowing the advice given on water changes. Filters will help space out WCs. I don't think there is a need for a UV right now. Hope this all helps.
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Post by nichole on Oct 21, 2014 14:38:19 GMT -5
Okay, I've got regular wonder shells ordered (they'll be going in all my tanks). As soon as I can, I'll get some Replenish (Thursday if I can find some locally). That will take care of the water problem (as much as possible). That will help the meds do their job. The question now is, once I get the water better, what meds? I've done the kanaplex/Furan2 thing. I've done cipro which cured columnaris for me in the past. I even tried metro/Furan 2/paraguard which I saw on one of Carl's articles. Devon, your post referred to medically proven treatments on this thread, but I'm not sure what you refer to (at ones that I haven't already tried). Carl did mention this: What do I use now? I did also order some pp, so I'll do swabs with that as soon as I get some. With the KH (90) you have, your pH should naturally be coming down. I believe the reason it's not is because of too many water changes. There is not enough time to allow for the pH to come down. Spacing water changes longest amount of time apart, with keeping proper parameters with help. Allowing the advice given on water changes. Filters will help space out WCs. This unfortunately would not apply to Hébert's QT tank since it's only 2.5 gallons. I think 50% twice per week the minimum, yes? (I just realized that the WC recommendations you gave before were if I was was trying to control ammonia, which I don't have an issue with.) He does have a sponge filter, but I haven't been trying to cycle the tank since it was only supposed to be a QT tank. With my main tanks, I do change 50% once per week because I use the EI method for fertilizing. Thomas Laboratories makes it under the name of Fish Flox.
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Post by Carl on Oct 21, 2014 15:13:08 GMT -5
Thanks, their quantities are more reasonable for average consumers At this point I would just use the Potassium Permanganate swabs along with salt & PP baths. It is quite possible that this fish may be simply genetically weak when it comes to disease resistance to Columnaris (this is quite common), or maybe too old to effect a cure. The Bio Bandage mentioned by Judy, while not something I have studied its effectiveness for Columnaris, is relatively inert and might be worth a try. Product Resource: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Waterconditioner.html#biobandageThe main point is to give your fish a rest for 7-10 days from antibiotic medications. You can restart with Tetracycline or simply place a Medicated Wonder Shell after this time is elapsed. As per water changes and KH & pH; your KH number indicate you should have a lower pH level, but with constant water changes even with RO water (which can still be high in pH unlike DI water), the normal bio processes that produce acids that will lower your pH, especially with your low KH levels are not having anytime to "kick in" IMO I recommend a cycled sponge filter be used and I would not recommend a minimum of 50% water change twice per week, otherwise you can have a roller coaster of water parameters which is the last thing you would want when treating Columnaris As for the EI method for fertilizing, this if fine as long as no sick fish are present in the aquarium where these fert adjustments are being made Resource for this method: aquarium-fertilizer.com/estimative-index-fertilizing-methodFurther Reference about Aquarium Cleaning: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_cleaning.htmlCarl
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Post by nichole on Oct 21, 2014 22:13:55 GMT -5
Got it. He's still acting and eating well, so...wish me luck and I'll keep y'all posted. Thanks again!
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Post by annieroi on Jul 11, 2017 14:40:21 GMT -5
Nicole, I have searched and searched for any betta that matched my Marvin's symptoms. I even joined a Betta forum, and no one even responded to my pictures and questions. But YOUR betta's back end turning to what looks like liquid silver IS JUST LIKE MINE! So, did you ever figure out what it was, or what helped? For more info, i am pasting what I wrote on the other forum. If ANYONE has clear answers, please advise! Marvin our one year old crowntail beta lives in a 3 gallon heated tank with many live plants. He has a whisper filter with air infused into it. To help keep it clean he also has a horned nerite snail and two ghost shrimp For two months he has had this weird thing going on his backend. The scales turn into looks like liquid silver. And his fins are tattered. I worried he would die. But he is still going strong, eating well, friendly as can be, but now a fissure seems to be developing. This is way beyond fin rot, and I can't seem to find any images online of body right although I read about it a lot. Still, the silver coloring and the extent of it seems a bit much. Can anybody figure out what this is? I thought he was a goner sometime ago but, again, he seems really happy. Like he doesn't even know the back end of him is almost missing! ( additional info: he's a pig and I'm a wuss. So yes overfeeding has definitely happened. I feed him a blanched P on occasion. He never seems constipated he never leans to one side as if he had bloat, and he never seems overly swollen. He just loves to eat. Endlessly. Before reading up on restricting their diets, I think I was feeding him about 30 pallets a day! Because he quickly ate EVERY morsel I gave him and danced for more. So I figured he needed more. But now I understand that he was eating more than he should and have brought him down to the size of his eye rule.)
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Post by Carl on Jul 12, 2017 9:33:12 GMT -5
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Post by annieroi on Jul 12, 2017 19:07:56 GMT -5
Thank you for responding Carl. I sure was hoping to hear that Nicole discovered what it was. And that her baby was healed! I have tried cooler temps for a month, and Epson salt, and Betta fix and lifeguard. I used the last two for the full duration of the treatment, but saw no positive change at all, if anything, he seemed weaker, spending more time hiding. I'll read the article you linked to see what else is there, but I have to be honest - without knowing what this is, I feel I may be doing more harm (speeding up his demise and pain) by randomly throwing meds at him without knowing what the problem is. I understand how the human medical stance of 'first, do no harm' doesn't apply to animals since they can't talk and tell us about their symptoms, but Marvin is such a sweetie, I hate to think I am causing him more pain, and he can't tell me that either! If this silver butt issue showing up on my crown-tail (and it looked like Nicole's was a crown-tail too- suspicious much?) is anything you've seen before, you'd let me know, right?
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